Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Electronics => Topic started by: pintopaul on November 08, 2011, 06:17:54 PM

Title: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 08, 2011, 06:17:54 PM
first off thanks for this site . i really need help , ive read other posts and am still lost i mean im not stupid but somethings not clicking. first off let start from the beginning . i purchased a used owb it a wood master model 434 had it all hooked with power, water line and exchanger in a miller trailer furnace (not my choice came with the double wide)model number msha-086abfo-01 its a 1994 furnace. my question is how to hook another thermostat to the oil furnace so the blower will come on the outdoor wood boiler dealer sold me a honeywell r8285a1048 control center but this is for a 2 speed motor my furnace one has 1 speed i want the owb to be my main source of heat and the oil furnace as backup. I have pictures of the furnace, control center thats on the oil furnace and pictures of the wires on the control center thats on the boiler the old stat hooks to the side lettered t and theres 2 other wires on the same side marked (F) if you have other questions please text me at 518 335 3883 if you want pictures shot me you cell number and ill send them your way. This is my only heat source so i need to get this working soon Please Help thanks paul
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: jackel440 on November 08, 2011, 06:33:20 PM
Man, I don't know how much help I can be ,but on my modular I have a coleman furnace.I yanked out my a/c coil to fit in my heat exchanger.SO no more A/C.I then just did some creative wiring in the furnace control panel.I am out of LP and the line is unhooked anyways So there is no going back to lp.
I just changed a few wires in my furnace so the power comes into the furnace.(using the wire already in the furnace)I still have the 24 volt transformer sending power to the thermostat.I then made it so when the stat calls for heat it trips the relay in the furnace like normal ,but now the relay just turns on my fan.TA DA! heat just like normal. :thumbup:Stat is just turning on the relay which sends power to the fan.
Doesn't get any simpler than that.I just unhooked and bypassed all the other wiring in the furnace.Don't use it or need it.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: jackel440 on November 08, 2011, 06:49:53 PM
Here is print of what I did to my furnace.I still had it taped up inside the door from last year.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/starlitefarms/furnaceblowerschematic.jpg)
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 08, 2011, 08:06:02 PM
Does your existing thermostat have a fan position on it?
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: Bull on November 09, 2011, 06:48:54 AM
Pintopaul, on my owb I run the water circulating pump 24/7 and have wired my tstat for it to the furnace tstat 2 wires that go to the fan "ON" setting. I think this is the easiest way to do it.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 09, 2011, 01:31:49 PM
i have a programable thermostat but theres only 2 wires going to the thermostat. bull you say you hooked it up to the blower this is where im lost my control has2) t letters and this is where the thermostat is hooked now for the furnace and then there 2) marked F where do i hook it? thanks paul please call my cell at 335 3883 or give me your cell and i'll send ya pictures of my set up
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 09, 2011, 01:40:11 PM
How old is the oil furnace? Does it have a temperature switch in the plenum that turns the fan on?
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 09, 2011, 01:42:03 PM
I just re-read your first post and see it is 1994.
Is there a circuit board in the furnace where the thermostat wires connect?
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 09, 2011, 04:47:45 PM
yes there is a fan switch and a limit switch its the little round style ,i believe its a circuit board depends what you call it . it has a reset switch if you have a cell i can send ya a picture of the whole set up. thanks paul
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: jackel440 on November 09, 2011, 04:55:56 PM
He  is talking about the upper limit switch.It's resetable for when the furnace over heats.
There should be2 or three limit switches on it.I doubt there is any circuit boards in that older unit.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 09, 2011, 05:04:48 PM
send pics to 608-438-8300
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 09, 2011, 05:27:48 PM
pictures on there way thanks
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 09, 2011, 05:41:41 PM
(http://rsiboilers.com/owfi/tstat2.jpg)
(http://rsiboilers.com/owfi/tstat.jpg)
(http://rsiboilers.com/owfi/tstat3.jpg)
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 09, 2011, 05:46:50 PM
Are the wires in the first picture the wires to the thermostat or the wires to the motor?
There should be a relay of some sort that controls the fan. Or there may be a switch somewhere that runs on line voltage. It would probably be adjustable for different temperatures (probably round silver circle with slide adjusters)
I would put a relay in parallel with that and have the new thermostat control the relay.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 09, 2011, 06:01:48 PM
ok first answer the 4 wire picture i sent the 2 wire on top go to the oil furnace thermostat marked (T) the second 2 hooked to (F) go to an eye in the burner. the fan switch on the plenum can not be set its a sealed unit. this does have a switch its a 3 position switch witch says on/off/fresh air i put it on fresh air but it makes the fan run all the time  witch my wife liked but i didnt because it was over 95 degrees in our house
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: Bull on November 09, 2011, 07:14:08 PM
When you get inside of the furnace I am lost, I just hooked mine up to the thermostat that is on my electric furnace. To the wire that makes the fan run all the time and broke it with a 2 wire thermostat. I keep the electric furnace thermostat set to 65 and the other (OWB) set to 72.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 09, 2011, 07:45:56 PM
Can you get at the wires on the 3 position switch?
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 10, 2011, 01:44:24 PM
yes i can get to the 3 wires on the switch they are slip connectors .
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 10, 2011, 02:00:51 PM
Is the switch on the furnace? If you have it on fresh air will the furnace still fire if you turn up the thermostat?
How big are the wires going to the switch?
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 10, 2011, 02:50:24 PM
yes the switch is on the furnace, no when switched to fresh air just the fan comes on but stays on till i switch it of or to on for firing the furnace . they are normal size wires like maybe a 14 guage wire like the rest of the wires. RSI i think your the one i sent pictures to if you want i have unlimited text if youd like to text me. dont mean to rush anyone but i need to get this working as soon as possible because of my work if starts to get cold and snows i'm not home much ...thanks paul 518 335 3883 cell
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 10, 2011, 03:13:49 PM
You are sure the burner won't fire with the switch the fan on position? Without being there is is hard to say if it would be a problem but it sounds like you should be able to take the wire off the switch for the fresh air setting and connect the relay module you have to that wire and to the common connection on the switch. (probably the center but not always)

TO test it I would try putting the wires together and see if it works before hooking up the relay. When they are jumpered together the fan should keep running and the oil furnace should fire like normal  if the thermostat is turned up.

If that works, on your relay module, connect the black and white wires to 120v power.
Black and red wires to wire removed off switch and common on switch (you need to add to existing wire)
Connect the R to the R on the thermostat and the W to the W on the thermostat.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 10, 2011, 03:49:15 PM
ok put the 2 wires togeither sparked but did not start the blower. i took pictures of the switch and wiring i'm sending them your way if your cell was the 608
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 10, 2011, 04:28:03 PM
Which two wires did you put together?
Are there any markings on the switch by the terminals? (Something like NC, NO, COM)
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 10, 2011, 04:52:49 PM
ok on the fresh air side of the switch its orange witch goes to the fan sensor and the black wire witch is in the center of the switch
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 10, 2011, 05:21:53 PM
If you put those two wires together does the blower run?
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 10, 2011, 05:47:40 PM
no blow dose not run if i touch these 2 wires togeither, i looked at the wires the blue one is on the on setting like if the furnace is to fire normally hooks to one side of the limit and fan switch,black wire is in the center of the switch witch goes to the main 2 wires coming in ,3rd wire is orange and goes to the other side of the limit switch and fan switch.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 10, 2011, 07:41:29 PM
If it doesn't turn on the fan but flipping the switch does then that means you have the wrong wires.
What happens if you put them all 3 together?
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 10, 2011, 08:14:48 PM
if you read my last post , i think the blue and orange might fire the blower but im getting nervise touching wires togeither i really dont want to burn something up.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 10, 2011, 08:19:29 PM
Do you have a multimeter?
We just need to know if the furnace will still operate normally with the fan running or if it will backfeed and make it do something it shouldn't.

Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 11, 2011, 08:29:28 AM
i would be happy right  now if i could figure out how to make the furnace stop firing so i could just use the blower either way right now would be great.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 11, 2011, 08:52:56 AM
Is the furnace firing with the thermostat turned down?

It is hard guessing what the wires are from here. I think you will need to get a cheap meter to check which is which.

Another way that might work it remove the wire you think is the fan wire and see if the fan position still turns the fan on. If it doesn't then try making the furnace fire with it off and that should tell for sure that it is the right wire.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 11, 2011, 09:05:34 AM
rsi if you number is the 608 i sent another picture
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 11, 2011, 09:10:34 AM
Can you get that any clearer? I can't read the smaller words on it.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 11, 2011, 09:56:06 AM
Looking at your pictures again, I think those rounds disks in the one picture may be the fan controller and the high limit. Try taking a piece of wire and jumper from one side to the other. If one of them has 3 wires on it try that first.

If that doesn't work then I will need to see a clear picture of the wiring diagram.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 11, 2011, 10:19:19 AM
yes jumping the fan limit switch the one with 4 wires going to it , when i jumped it yes just the fan worked.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 11, 2011, 10:47:48 AM
Then you can connect the relay module there and it should work. Use the same wiring I mentioned earlier and put the red wire to one side and the black to the other. (I think the 3rs wire in that group is brown, that isn't used)
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 11, 2011, 10:52:14 AM
ok what type of relay do i need to get ?
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 11, 2011, 11:18:25 AM
The one you mentioned in your first post should work. That is what I was getting the wire colors from.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 11, 2011, 11:45:33 AM
so your saying to use the fan center honeywell part number r8285a1048? how would i wire that in? if you know how text me a drawing of it cause i work better from pictures haha
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 11, 2011, 12:10:37 PM
Does the Honeywell fan center have 2 sets of wires on it? One a black and a white and the other a red, a black and a brown?
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 11, 2011, 12:54:08 PM
ok on BOTTOM SIDE one side has blk and wht/ other side of BOTTOM has orange,brown and black.                                                    TOP SIDE has connections for r/c/w/g/y i got to check the voltage at the fan limit switch and its 110volts on either side. paul
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 11, 2011, 01:01:14 PM
The manual I founds lists the colors as red, black and brown.

You need to connect the white and black wires to a 120v power source.
Connect the black wire to one side of the fan switch and the orange to the other. Then if you jumper the R and W terminals on the honeywell module together the fan should start. If it does then connect those terminals to the same on the thermostat.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 11, 2011, 01:08:46 PM
going to try it wish me luck (i might need it)
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 11, 2011, 06:28:02 PM
cant try till tomorrow went to our local hardware store i will not say there name (curtis lumber) but they had closed at 4 this would be a good town for a hardware store. oh wait the big one (lowes) closed because there was no buissness and that was only 14 miles away....... dam i want to get this hooked up. i'll let everyone know when i get it done. paul
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 12, 2011, 02:50:52 PM
rsi i tried to hook it up the way you said r to r     w to w didnt work if i leave red on red and i check the voltage on g or c i get 24 volts can i use one of these? i tried to call you when i was doing this but got an answering machine. if i can hook to one of the other lugs does this control center have to be mounted flat or can it be mounted on its side? thanks paul
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: yoderheating on November 12, 2011, 05:01:11 PM
I have not read this whole post but using a fan center to run a oil furnace is rather simple. Use the black and white wire to power the fan center from the oil furnace. Tie the red wire in with the black wire used to power the fan center so it has constant power on the red wire. Cut the wire to the fan motor and run it through the relay. The black wire off the relay needs to go to the fan motor and the brown wire needs to go to the wire that normally supplies the power to the fan. This will allow the existing heat to work because the black and brown wires are normally closed. Now, using a three wire thermostat wire conect the new thermostat to the relay, c to c, r to r, w on the thermostat to g on the relay. Now when the new thermostat calls for heat it will activate the relay and send power from the red wire to the black which will turn on the fan. The brown wire will be disconnected when the relay is engaged so no power will back feed. Hope this helps. 
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 12, 2011, 11:00:09 PM
I just looked at the wiring diagram again and you need to connect the W on the thermostat to the G on the Honeywell fan center. Don't go to the C, that would probably fry the thermostat.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: yoderheating on November 13, 2011, 05:30:43 AM
 The C is the common, if you have a digital thermostat you need to hook it up to have power. If you are using a mercury thermostat you will not use it.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 13, 2011, 08:25:43 AM
ok on the fan controller does it have to be mounted flat?
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 13, 2011, 10:13:32 PM
No, that shouldn't make any difference which way it is mounted.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 13, 2011, 10:16:06 PM
The C is the common, if you have a digital thermostat you need to hook it up to have power. If you are using a mercury thermostat you will not use it.
Good point, I didn't think of that.
All the digital thermostats I have used have batteries and don't use the common wire.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 14, 2011, 01:34:50 PM
rsi :yoderheat is saying to hook it differant which way should i go i still want the oil furnace to work if my wood stove goes out if i hook it your way will it still work and not give twice the votage to the fan limit switch? help thought i had it figured out with your help but now yoderheat has me thinking again ... like i said i rent this house and dont want to screw something up but i need to do it myself to save money. thanks
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 14, 2011, 01:40:04 PM
Either way will work.
The way I said to hook it up is just shorting the fan switch out. 
I believe that is the temperature switch on the furnace that turns the blower on. The other one is the limit switch. When you had that switch jumpered out did the furnace fire when you turn the thermostat up?

Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 14, 2011, 01:42:23 PM
didnt try to fire furnace , i will thou
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: yoderheating on November 14, 2011, 02:51:30 PM
 Sorry to confuse you. I was just telling you how I install them but like I said before there are a number of ways that will work. Really its pretty easy, I wouldn't over think it.
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 14, 2011, 06:52:22 PM
ok wired , thermostat hooked. turn wood boiler thermostat up PRESTO the fan comes on . turn the thermostat on the oil furnace up PRESTO fires right up. THANKS GUYS YOU GUYS SAVED ME ABOUT 150 FOR THE FURNACE MAN TO COME if we ever meet at a bar drinks are on me ......
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 24, 2016, 03:36:20 PM
RSI if you still on here i need your help again another thermostate, furnace set up (help) my cell is 518 538 4069 you helped me before hope you can help again. thanks paul
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 24, 2016, 10:22:24 PM
I am still here. are you replacing an old thermostat or is this something else completely?
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: pintopaul on November 25, 2016, 01:58:56 PM
setting up my brother outdoor wood boiler he has a 4400 and a oil furnace, i dot have the diagram anymore that i had you draw me up. he want to use 2 thermostats like i did. i have pictures of his oil furnace and was planning on using the same set up i did but his furnace is newer than mine. if you have a cell and get pictures i can send them to you. my cell is 518 539 4069 thanks paul
Title: Re: hooking thermostat to a oil fired furnace w/owb
Post by: RSI on November 25, 2016, 03:51:55 PM
You can send them to 608-438-8300