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Author Topic: what did you use for the feeder line  (Read 7882 times)

jackel440

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what did you use for the feeder line
« on: March 14, 2009, 09:12:18 PM »

I am wondering what kind? ,and where did you purchase? your lines running from your boiler to the house.I have seen lots of different styles of pex that seem to be available.What seems to be the average size lines that are being installed?I have found that it looks to be a lot of 1" line that is being installed.
Whats the pros and cons of buying pre insulated line in the black plastic tile.Compared to wrapping your own lines in insulation and then putting it in a tile pipe?
I heard mention of running the lines in sections of rigid pvc.Is there a pro to doing it that way.Seems like a ton of extra work plus the chance for leaks with all the glue joints.
Looking for any opinions and ideas.
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John D

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2009, 06:56:53 AM »

 The 1" is most popular,1 1/4" should be used in big buildings or homes with large heat exchangers,and OWBS with 500 gallon of water capacity or more.
      I would stay away from the 1" pipe in the 4" drainage pipe.Unless you are very high above the water table,and have sandy soil,it wil eventually leak,and get the insulation wet,then you willl have to redo it all,as your insulation becomes a conductor,and you lose all your heat to the ground .Thermoplex,logstor anf there are a few others that are good.If you make your own,the setup that works well seems to be 3-4 wraps of solarguard,with the first wrap between the pipes,installed  in 4 or 6" PVC glued,and pressure checked,and you will not have any problems with leaks.
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Scratch

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2009, 07:16:26 AM »

I used the Thermopex 1" lines inside the insulated ~4" black sealed tube.  I got 100' of it, 10.00 per foot.  I'm doing a temporary install this winter and have the entire length across the lawn.  I've been told that the snow will not melt on top of the tube, but it does.  I lose around 10 degrees in that 100 feet and can't wait to bury that line. 
I'm glad I did the Thermopex and would do it again if I had to.
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jackel440

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2009, 07:21:51 PM »

I will be looking into using the 1 1/4" tube.I have not found it locally.

So Have there been reports of the black tile getting cracks and letting ground water seep in.I am surprised it would leak that stuff is pretty tuff. I have installed a couple hundred feet of it for draining water off my property.I wonder if people are burrying it with no care to make sure rocks are not in the trench.

I do think the rigid pvc would be nice to run the tubing in.
If you run the tubing in pvc do you try to force the tube through a 90* elbow or sweep it up wwith two 45* elbows?I DOn't have a basement so I will have to come up under my house into a crawl space.So i can't just come straight into the basement wall.I will have to 90 up under the house and the boiler.
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MarkP

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2009, 07:57:32 PM »

I'm a residential contractor, and use the 100ft. - 500 ft. rolls of black 4" and 6" often. I have never had a problem with it cracking or leaking, but I use it for drainage, so I don't really have a way of checking it for leaks.  It is very tough though.    As for PVC, it is only as good as it's glue joints.  If you are using PVC in 10 or 20 ft. sections, you will need a really straight ditch.    With the price of Schedule 40 in 4" or 6", a person would be better off paying the price for the Thermopex. 

I used 1" oxygen barrier pex, with closed cell foam sleeves slid on from the end, not slit.  (I had to spray the pipe with silicone spray to get them on)  I then wrapped it in 3 wraps of HVAC foil backed bubble wrap.   I slid it inside a 6"  black corrigated pipe.  I can't imagine trying to get it inside a 4" pipe, especially if you have to go through a 45* or a 90*.   If I do get a leak, neither of these forms of insulation will absorb water, so there will be little chance of heat loss due to wet insulation.  As an added measure, I filled the ditch with sand around and to the top of the pipe for further protection, and cut 2" thick high density foam similiar to "Tuff-R" and laid on the sand before the dirt went in.  I feel very confident about my pipe installation.

I may have more money in mine than if I had purchased the prepared pipe, but I see posted often that heat loss equals firewood.  I plan on installing the pipe only once,,,,,,,,,,, firewood is every year. 
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jackel440

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 07:37:29 PM »

I agree that the black tile pipe is pretty strong stuff.I think with the proper precautions taken when installing it in the ground there should be no problems.

MarkP   have you checked to see what kind of temp drop you have from the boiler to your house.Just wondered if you have seen how well your insulation job works?
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MarkP

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2009, 05:14:10 AM »

I haven't even attempted to check the temp difference from the stove to the house.  The only "accurage" method I have is a IR gun.  I'm not sure the accuracy measured on the outside of the pipe vs. the actual water temp, but regardless, I guess the tolerance should be the same from one end of the pipe to the other.  Ron is using his multi-meter to check themps, and I hadn't even thought of that.  I would really like to find a way to get a probe in the water on each end of the pipe.  I will give it a check this week and report back.

I am a true believer in insulation.  Be it your house,, your stove,, your water lines.  We had several jobs this past fall/winter installing an overlay of insulation in attics.  I've received great reports of the energy savings from my customers.
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jackel440

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2009, 07:20:23 PM »

Yes I think the key to performance is insulation.I am going to pull my bat insulation back down in my shop and hopefully spray foam it if i can get the money together.
I will probably end up insulating the tubes and put it in tile pipe for my instalation.
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12vdzl

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2009, 07:59:37 PM »

I'm a residential contractor, and use the 100ft. - 500 ft. rolls of black 4" and 6" often. I have never had a problem with it cracking or leaking, but I use it for drainage, so I don't really have a way of checking it for leaks.  It is very tough though.    As for PVC, it is only as good as it's glue joints.  If you are using PVC in 10 or 20 ft. sections, you will need a really straight ditch.    With the price of Schedule 40 in 4" or 6", a person would be better off paying the price for the Thermopex. 

I used 1" oxygen barrier pex, with closed cell foam sleeves slid on from the end, not slit.  (I had to spray the pipe with silicone spray to get them on)  I then wrapped it in 3 wraps of HVAC foil backed bubble wrap.   I slid it inside a 6"  black corrigated pipe.  I can't imagine trying to get it inside a 4" pipe, especially if you have to go through a 45* or a 90*.   If I do get a leak, neither of these forms of insulation will absorb water, so there will be little chance of heat loss due to wet insulation.  As an added measure, I filled the ditch with sand around and to the top of the pipe for further protection, and cut 2" thick high density foam similiar to "Tuff-R" and laid on the sand before the dirt went in.  I feel very confident about my pipe installation.

I may have more money in mine than if I had purchased the prepared pipe, but I see posted often that heat loss equals firewood.  I plan on installing the pipe only once,,,,,,,,,,, firewood is every year. 

This is VERY similar to way i'm going to do mine also.  But 1 question.  I have to lay my pipe under my GRAVEL driveway, and will frequently get run over with ALOT  of weight.  I'm planning on running my pipe 5 feet in the ground with my pex/corrugated pipe running through 7 " schd 80 pvc pipe.  Under the pvc pipe with be around 1 foot of sand and around a foot of sand on top.   

Is my thinking way overkill??  I'd like to hear any and all suggestions and input.

Thank you
Curtis
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willieG

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2009, 09:54:38 PM »

pipe in the ground..i can think of no such thing as overkill!

my next underground lines will be pipe such as logstor...inside another tile with a drainage tile installed under that
plan to keep it dry and away from the dirt. my belief is if the insulated water pipes are inside another tile (sealed at both ends) that a layer of dead air between the insulated water pipes and the earth are much better

and a drainage tile below that will ensure they stay dry
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12vdzl

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2009, 12:33:55 AM »

pipe in the ground..i can think of no such thing as overkill!

my next underground lines will be pipe such as logstor...inside another tile with a drainage tile installed under that
plan to keep it dry and away from the dirt. my belief is if the insulated water pipes are inside another tile (sealed at both ends) that a layer of dead air between the insulated water pipes and the earth are much better

and a drainage tile below that will ensure they stay dry

Thank you  :thumbup:
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MarkP

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2009, 06:20:12 AM »

7" Sch. 80 pipe has a wall thickness of .500 inches, and will take a tememdous amount of weight.  The glue joint, on the other hand, is another story.  It will be the weakest link in the chain, you might say.  I would be sure to make the ditch as narrow as possible where vehicles are going to cross over.  With the pex insde a corrigated pipe before it goes inside the 7", it should be OK, but a little extra insurance would be comforting.

You say it is a gravel drive?  You might think about digging down and forming a 6" concrete "slab" below grade level, and spanning 18" - 24" on each side of the ditch, to support any excessive weight that is passing over.  Be sure it is wider than the widest vehicle to pass over.  Not a big expense for the piece of mind it will bring.  None of us want to do these twice.
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12vdzl

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2009, 07:07:58 PM »

7" Sch. 80 pipe has a wall thickness of .500 inches, and will take a tememdous amount of weight.  The glue joint, on the other hand, is another story.  It will be the weakest link in the chain, you might say.  I would be sure to make the ditch as narrow as possible where vehicles are going to cross over.  With the pex insde a corrigated pipe before it goes inside the 7", it should be OK, but a little extra insurance would be comforting.

You say it is a gravel drive?  You might think about digging down and forming a 6" concrete "slab" below grade level, and spanning 18" - 24" on each side of the ditch, to support any excessive weight that is passing over.  Be sure it is wider than the widest vehicle to pass over.  Not a big expense for the piece of mind it will bring.  None of us want to do these twice.

I'm going all the way across my driveway, approx.  25 to 30 feet.  I'm hoping i'll be ok burrying the pipe the way i mentioned above, 5 feet deep, with sand all the way around.  The ditch will be 2 feet wide.  The amount of weight on a daily basis is about 8k (my truck) being the heaviest.  But if i have the trailer hooked and park it for the night or something, it could max out around 16K with a tripple axle trailer.

thanks for your response.   :thumbup:
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juddspaintballs

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2010, 10:53:22 AM »

Digging this one up for food for thought.  Would placing 4 or 6" drain tile inside of a few inches of concrete prevent it from not only cracking and being compromised, but also being crushed if driven over?
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rosewood

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Re: what did you use for the feeder line
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2010, 06:50:10 PM »

 in response to the concrete , i really dont see the need, assuming the pipe is 4-5 ' in ground . the worst case is the outer drain tile will squish a bit , but theres no way 1'' pex will crush that deep in the ground.
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