Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: creeker on January 14, 2013, 10:22:53 AM
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Hello All! New to the forum and new to the Outdoor boiler world. Just installed my new boiler back in November and have been burning it 24/7 since. Got my first "real" electric bill since getting everything installed and all sorted out. Less than impressed with the actual savings compared to what others have "told" me their savings was.
I am heating both the hot water and heat exchanger with the stove. Newly constructed, well insulated home approximately 2600 sq. ft. Neighbors house is pretty well the exact same style and size and is about 12 years old heating purely with heat pump. His bill... $311, my bill $221.
What are your all's estimated actual savings that you are seeing?
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Something is wrong buddy.. I can confidently tell my customers I can reduce there electric bills by at least 70%, often times much more.
I have really high utility rates, 13.2cents/kWh ... The last time I ran n electric was over 4 years ago, that winter I had 3 bills over $550. Since installing my owb,my highest electric bill was 123, and that was last December with enough Christmas lights to light up the whole holler! Most of my electric bills from October - April run in the range of 80 -85 dollars
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I had a guy last year who had been contacting me about a heatmaster 10,000. He was having electric bills near 1000/mo. His name is kybaseball on here, I'll see if I can find his posts about what he saves.
With your bill, I'm led to beleive something is kicking on with the furnace
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Well... that's what I was thinking as well. A friend down the rode has one installed heating his house, water heater and an outdoor building and he said his highest electric bill last year was $61.
What could be wrong? Pretty simple setup really. I was expecting huge savings and I'd say my bill wouldn't have been much different had I just ran the heat pump.
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Wo installed it? What is it? Give us some info
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Quotes from kybaseball...
Ok I we had a Heatmaster 10000e on Jan.5 2012. I had been looking at OWB's for while but couldn't make my mind up if it would save enough to make a difference. Well I got my 1st true electric bill being on the OWB. Can you say OMG. Looking at the bill last year at the same time frame I used 6827 kilowatts in 27 days for 689.30---The same time frame this year we used 1703 kilowatts in 30 days for 161.43---That is $527.87 difference. That is unbeiveable. So for all the people that are on the fence about what to do. Jump off and put that money back in your pocket. I want to thank Dave Youdler and Scott7M for answering all the questions that I have had. Dave isn't on this site but Scott7M is and he will take the time to answer any question you have. It is great to have people like this.
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I installed it myself. It is a 5000 sq foot stove that someone here locally builds with much success. Stove seems to function fine, heats the house to 72 with ease. I wired in a second thermostat myself that kicks on the fan only as needed. I used the instructions provided on the Central Boiler site to do this.
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Does your outside unit kick on when the fan comes on?
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Too be honest, I am not sure. I assume it should, correct?
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No it shouldnt, that would mean your heat pump is still on and ur furnace is only assisting it.
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Okay, I see what you are saying... makes perfect sense now. I will check it tonight first thing. I suspect you hit the nail on the head!
Thanks!
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Do folks typically just leave the heat pump set to "Off" during operation of the owb?
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Yes sometimes, but there is not set answer.
I install 2 thermostats, but even if the customers old thermostat is switched to off, my new thermostat, even though it's only controlling the fan can back feed and turn the heat pump on. In cases where this happens, I either turn the breaker off to the outdoor unit, or install a relay to keep that from happening
I'll post a picture of my relay diagram
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(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t387/Scott7m/7f37dc178674680b9ad7038cb21cdb86.jpg)
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Another possibility is that the power company doesn't read the meter every month. Some only do 3 or 4 times a year and bill by estimated usage between and adjust the bill when the meter is actually read.
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I have a backup electric heat coil in my airhandler. unless the breaker is off, the thermostat sometimes brings the coil on to speed up the temperature rise. cost me a lot till I figured that out. cut the breakker to any electric heat. Not sure about yur thermostat, if it is programable
you may be able to keep the electric off by the programing but mine will not obey!!
jd
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Listen to Scott he will help you and get it fixed. I can help some have learned a little and understand what these things should do. I am like scott it sounds like youroutside unit is running also. Trust me the savings is there you just have something going on.
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Let us know what you find
If you turn the breaker to the outside unit off, the heat strips inside can still kick on, only if you monkey with the thermostat, if you leave it on let's say 74 and keep wood in the stove, it will stay off
But if you like to turn it down to 68 and then back up to 74 in the morning, it will think it can't keep up and turn the heat strips on as well
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I also agree with Scott. I've seen a thermostat back feed before. Happened originally on my own install, but I was immeadiately aware of it. Fed power back to my central air unit outside and it would kick on everytime blower fan would energize. I've seen it happen with a heat pump too. I simply threw the electrical breaker on my A/C unit off during the winter heating months while using the OWF. I later upgraded to a programable a multi-stage thermostat and no longer need to throw the A/C breaker off. If you're not saving on your electical bill while the OWF is operating, something has to still be eating that extra juice. I do throw the breaker off on my water heater though and have never ran out of all the hot water I want. I feel this alone saves me $50-$60 a month on electrical bill.
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Mine is actually higher than before.But i added a hottub which im in the process of adding to owb.But i cant compare apples to apples three of us take rediculously long showers and have the heat set at 75 instead of 69.Its costs 20 bucks a month just to run the pump on the owb.So all said in done my heat pump would of never kept up at 75 degrees.I figure around 100 dollars a month at least savings.
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Let us know what you find
If you turn the breaker to the outside unit off, the heat strips inside can still kick on, only if you monkey with the thermostat, if you leave it on let's say 74 and keep wood in the stove, it will stay off
But if you like to turn it down to 68 and then back up to 74 in the morning, it will think it can't keep up and turn the heat strips on as well
I looked at it last night and that appears to be exactly what was going on. I had left the heat pump thermostat on but set to like 66 or something. I turned it off and now it appears that only the owb thermostat is doing the work and the heat is coming strictly from it.
thanks!
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Mine is actually higher than before.But i added a hottub which im in the process of adding to owb.But i cant compare apples to apples three of us take rediculously long showers and have the heat set at 75 instead of 69.Its costs 20 bucks a month just to run the pump on the owb.So all said in done my heat pump would of never kept up at 75 degrees.I figure around 100 dollars a month at least savings.
Something is messed up, it should still be way cheaper, your pump ain't costing no $20/mo either. I've tested numerous pumps and most run around 6-10 dollars even with us having the highest utility rates in the country.
Length of showers don't matter and temp inside have hardly anything to do with it, ur fan running an extra few hours a month dont add up to $5 bucks, something ain't right
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My electric bill went up just a little bit when I hooked up the owb. However, my rates are 18 cents per kwh here in Illinois and I was heating with propane before which was costing atleast $500 a month. Once I get my water heated with it I am sure I will see huge savings. :thumbup:
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Well yea of course if you switch from gas to wood it the electric bill could go up.
I felt he was insinuating he went from electric to wood and his electric bill went up? If that were the case I'd kick my wood stove over the hill lol
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Mine is actually higher than before.But i added a hottub which im in the process of adding to owb.But i cant compare apples to apples three of us take rediculously long showers and have the heat set at 75 instead of 69.Its costs 20 bucks a month just to run the pump on the owb.So all said in done my heat pump would of never kept up at 75 degrees.I figure around 100 dollars a month at least savings.
Something is messed up, it should still be way cheaper, your pump ain't costing no $20/mo either. I've tested numerous pumps and most run around 6-10 dollars even with us having the highest utility rates in the country.
Length of showers don't matter and temp inside have hardly anything to do with it, ur fan running an extra few hours a month dont add up to $5 bucks, something ain't right
My electric rate is 12.5 cents/kw and it costs me $20.00 per month to run my pump. It is a bell and gosset 36, which draws 2.1amps. Pump runs 24/7 and was recomended for my system. kw=amps*volts/1000. Often wondered if I could use a smaller pump, however this one has been flawless for 6 years.
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We're you heating with electric before your bill went up?
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Mine is actually higher than before.But i added a hottub which im in the process of adding to owb.But i cant compare apples to apples three of us take rediculously long showers and have the heat set at 75 instead of 69.Its costs 20 bucks a month just to run the pump on the owb.So all said in done my heat pump would of never kept up at 75 degrees.I figure around 100 dollars a month at least savings.
Something is messed up, it should still be way cheaper, your pump ain't costing no $20/mo either. I've tested numerous pumps and most run around 6-10 dollars even with us having the highest utility rates in the country.
Length of showers don't matter and temp inside have hardly anything to do with it, ur fan running an extra few hours a month dont add up to $5 bucks, something ain't right
My electric rate is 12.5 cents/kw and it costs me $20.00 per month to run my pump. It is a bell and gosset 36, which draws 2.1amps. Pump runs 24/7 and was recomended for my system. kw=amps*volts/1000. Often wondered if I could use a smaller pump, however this one has been flawless for 6 years.
Is it a PL36 or a NRF36?
That power equation isn't quite right on an inductive motor do to the power factor. To get an accurate power usage it is best to use an actual watt meter.
Also, you can't go by the label because that is max power usage. It will use less when there is more restriction on it.
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Scott, sorry about that, I don't know how to just quote part of a reply. To answer your question, no I did not heat my house with electric but I do have a electric water heater. My electric bill goes down since I use the boiler to heat dhw during the heating season. I know we use a crap ton of hot water so I figure at least a $50/ month savings for that alone. Then if you add back $20 to run the pump I am still saving $30 a month for hot water only. If I had to use my backup furnace I would use 1200 gallons of fuel oil to keep the house as warm as we do with the owb, so that saves me between $3500-$4000 per year. EASILY the best investment I have ever made!
RSI, not sure if it is a pl or a nrf, it was the bronze one for an open system, I can check tomorrow in the light. I don't have a watt meter so I just use that formula for a rough figure.
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The PL has a vented motor and the NRF is sealed.
I have a PL36 and I did some testing with the watt meter. I have a fairly low head pressure system and it runs at 180 watts with all 3 heat exchanger valves open. (all in parallel)
Where I normally have it set to get more flow through the plate it runs about 170 watts. As restriction is added the watt usage drops. It bottoms out at 130 watts with it completely deadheaded.
The NRF probably uses more power but I never tested one to see just how much.
The Armstrong E9 pump is even larger and about the same amp rating but they advertise that pump as typically drawing 115 watts.
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Scott, sorry about that, I don't know how to just quote part of a reply. To answer your question, no I did not heat my house with electric but I do have a electric water heater. My electric bill goes down since I use the boiler to heat dhw during the heating season. I know we use a crap ton of hot water so I figure at least a $50/ month savings for that alone. Then if you add back $20 to run the pump I am still saving $30 a month for hot water only. If I had to use my backup furnace I would use 1200 gallons of fuel oil to keep the house as warm as we do with the owb, so that saves me between $3500-$4000 per year. EASILY the best investment I have ever made!
RSI, not sure if it is a pl or a nrf, it was the bronze one for an open system, I can check tomorrow in the light. I don't have a watt meter so I just use that formula for a rough figure.
Ok I see! Lol I'm glad your saving money over all!
That's what it's all about
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The PL has a vented motor and the NRF is sealed.
I have a PL36 and I did some testing with the watt meter. I have a fairly low head pressure system and it runs at 180 watts with all 3 heat exchanger valves open. (all in parallel)
Where I normally have it set to get more flow through the plate it runs about 170 watts. As restriction is added the watt usage drops. It bottoms out at 130 watts with it completely deadheaded.
The NRF probably uses more power but I never tested one to see just how much.
The Armstrong E9 pump is even larger and about the same amp rating but they advertise that pump as typically drawing 115 watts.
That is really interesting, shows what I know about electricity as I would think it would be just the opposite when restriction goes up.
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Hardy h2. 32x80 2006 model trailer house. all electric. First year with Hardy. Last year same billing cycle 2011 - $264.84 house at 68 no shop heat. 2012 - $123.36 (1245kwh used) house at 72 shop 30x40 at 50 nights 60-70 during most days. And hot water off the stove. Seems like my savings arent the WOW factor i had hoped for but i have 2500 in the whole install so it wont take long to pay for itself. Running a taco 0011 if that makes any difference.
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I donno what the deal is here... If i could only save folks 100/mo i wouldn't sell many stoves at all...
I don't make a written guarantee, but if folks are on electric heat and thry have a bill that's 400, I tell them I can reduce it by at least 70%
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It isn't always about the savings. I have a propane furnace and this is just our second winter in the house. Last winter we burned a fireplace insert and really offset much of the propane use. I think I spent about $1500 total on propane last winter but if I wouldn't have burned the insert I am sure it would have been double or more. But the insert isn't all that. Heats the front of the house and living room pretty well but the rest of the house is like a refridgerator. Plus the smoke and mess in the house and very frequent tending of the fire. The master bed / bath is on the far end of the house and on cold mornings it would be in the 50s in our room. A little rough for that morning shower. I just fired up my OWB and don't expect big savings in electric but should use little propane. But the house will be well heated. Adding a unit heater to the garage which is a bonus. My only freek out is the jump in wood burned. I am burning two full plus wheel barrows of wood a day which is considerablly more than the insert but I am getting much more heat from the OWB. I am just glad I have as much free wood as I could ever need but I will be busy cutting, hauling, and stacking enough to keep up...
kc
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Oh I agree, I usually sell customers on the savings, but when I see them a year later, what they truly love is the overall comfort that they've never had before.
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I'm with kc, my electric has probably stayed the same or slightly dropped. But, I have not filled a propane tank in three years and still have about 60% of my original fill. The house is always at least 75 and unlimited hot water. I cannot even start to put a number on $$$$$ saved because of my OWB. No problem here helping you dealers try and sell one, one of the best purchases I have ever made as long as I get many years of use out of it. If it rusts out early, well then, I guess I screwed myself by the brand. The concept is truely worth the money.
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The savings that I have seen is crazy!!!! I have had my stove for a year now and would not trade it for anything. In a year I have saved over $4500. I know it is hard to believe but I have the bills to show for it. We even burned it over the summer just to heat the water. It was about a 100 savings a month on the bill just heating the water plus the water is hotter and never runs out with the stove. We also had the electric company come to our house and see what was going on. One of the lady's asked if it was ok for her husband to call me I said sure. I showed him what we are saving and he was surprised that more people don't have them. It has been great saving the money and has been even better getting wood as me and my youngest have a ball cutting and splitting. Good family times!!!
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That's what it's all about!
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I have a pretty new air tight house with a pretty efficent heat pump before.Adding a owb is something i wanted to do knowing it wouldnt save me a huge amount because my electric bill never broke 150 even in the winter.My pumpy is broeder 1/3 hp it says it used 250 watts on the pump .I have a killwatt monitor it uses 242 watts runs 24/7 .Killwatt hour here is 10.7 cents so if i did my math correctly thats $19.26 something (correct me if im wrong).I live in western North Carolina it never sees single digit temps rarely teens.The longer showers with an electric water heater would of cost more .So im deff enjoying endless hot water.Cant wait to get the hot tub hooked to it .It costs $45 a month to run.
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I got the hottub after the owb so the 150 electric bill was without hottub thermostat set at 69 with very short showers.And before my little girl was born .We now use an insane amout of hotwater our water bill went up because we used 1500 more gallons than average in two months.So maybe the 100 a month was a low saving because of the 45 a month hot tub cost probably more like 150 ish.Either way i love it so far.
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I have a pretty new air tight house with a pretty efficent heat pump before.Adding a owb is something i wanted to do knowing it wouldnt save me a huge amount because my electric bill never broke 150 even in the winter.My pumpy is broeder 1/3 hp it says it used 250 watts on the pump .I have a killwatt monitor it uses 242 watts runs 24/7 .Killwatt hour here is 10.7 cents so if i did my math correctly thats $19.26 something (correct me if im wrong).I live in western North Carolina it never sees single digit temps rarely teens.The longer showers with an electric water heater would of cost more .So im deff enjoying endless hot water.Cant wait to get the hot tub hooked to it .It costs $45 a month to run.
Your math looks correct. Those Broeder pumps are power hogs.
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I got my last electric bill and it was 89 dollars! Last year this time was warmer and I was burning in a wood stove in my basement and it was around 300. The previous year was 450 so I believe I am saving money and loving it. It was hard to get my wife on board to purchase but she would go back to having all electric lol. I am not sure how to figure out how long it will take to pay for itself but it will eventually plus I really enjoy processing wood I just picked up on a plié of ground less than a mile from my house that is being logged. I think I have a problem or at least my wife thinks I do.
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My OWB replaces my electric water heater and my propane furnace. The electric water heater is shut off at the breaker for the wood burning season, and the propane only kicks on below 60 (never). My Taco pump runs 24/7 and my electricity savings are only minimal. I was expecting greater savings. I am basically swapping the small pump for my electric water heater and there is very little difference.
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My next pump will be a more effiecent one. My loop is one inch pex around 100 feet long with the highest point being six feet to my heat exchanger.Yeah my wife also thinks i have a problem i have wood piled all over the yard.
I bring home three truck loads a week.Especially when i was using my brand new truck to haul wood in.2011 fx4 f150 .Thats probably overkill i guess .Just finished my 8x16 wood shed time to fill it up.
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Good point, RSI. To carry that even further, Georgia Power, for example, offers "budget billing" if you want, which attempts to equalize the bill considering seasonal changes. How this works is they average a year of usage into twelve equal bills. Other utility companies will likely offer the same. The point is, if you are on this program, like me, you could be still receiving the averaged bill. It can be changed, but I haven't yet done it. It's money in the bank in this case.
This is regardless of the current meter readings. My utility has remote monitoring anyway as a result of new meters some years ago. They get the reading over the power line. No, really!
Another angle to consider.
J
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I'd never signup for budget billing, if there was an issue, by the time you found it, it would be hard to dispute. But to each there own, I just don't wanna trust others to do the calculating for me
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The idea is "Trust, but verify."
All I was trying to do was help. You are a bit too caustic, Scott. You could have phrased that differently and made your point without offending me and those who subscribe or have subscribed to budget billing.
I have a feeling that your point was other than it sounded. I hope.
Jerry
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Reading all these post about Actual Electric Savings, I think it is fair to say that if you heated by electricity before your OWF, your electric bill would be greatly reduced. If you heated by gas or oil before your OWF, your gas or oil bill would be greatly reduced or eliminated as in my case but your electric bill may not change much. Either way, you should be saving money! >:D
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Just say what I was thinking
Since you brought it up though, I simply said I would never sign up for it, and that I basically didn't trust them to handle it. I also said to each there own, meaning if that's what you want, good for you and that's your choice
Just because that's my opinion don't mean that it's the holy grail, I simply stated my opinion and didn't, and still don't see how that could offend anyone
I'm sorry if you took offense to it though, that wasn't the intent
On another note: I'm always doing different things to see how it affects my bill, I like to see the results each month in dollar amounts
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Reading all these post about Actual Electric Savings, I think it is fair to say that if you heated by electricity before your OWF, your electric bill would be greatly reduced. If you heated by gas or oil before your OWF, your gas or oil bill would be greatly reduced or eliminated as in my case but your electric bill may not change much. Either way, you should be saving money! >:D
Yea overall utilities cost should be saving you a bundle, everyone in my area is electric, so it's hard for me to remember fuel oil and others, but overall savings is what it's about
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You guys really need to check out the Grundfos Alpha pumps. 7 different settings with a max electric usage of 45 Watts. My original 3 speed pumps where sucking 235 watts on low, 255 watts on medium, and 285 watts on high. Went to the Alpha pump 1 1/2 years ago working great !!
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Yes they are awesome, but be careful with them, running them on auto is to slow for a owb, running it on high is a safe bet and your still only pulling 40 watts
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Well... here it is first of March and I am still not seeing these extremely low electric Bills everyone boasts about. With the help of ScottM and WillieG I thought I had it all sorted out as the stove has been working flawlessly. Got my electric bill for Feb-Mar and it was $173... that was for a 28 day bill. I even got all the breakers off except for one and that is the one required to turn the fan on to the unit. Any ideas?
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Well... here it is first of March and I am still not seeing these extremely low electric Bills everyone boasts about. With the help of ScottM and WillieG I thought I had it all sorted out as the stove has been working flawlessly. Got my electric bill for Feb-Mar and it was $173... that was for a 28 day bill. I even got all the breakers off except for one and that is the one required to turn the fan on to the unit. Any ideas?
How many kwh did you use? How many did you use in the average winter month before the stove?
Do you leave the thermostat alone or monkey with it all the time??? Sometimes if your turning it up and down all the time it can turn on the heats trips
I overlooked we had worked on this before but just trying to find the cause..
I have customers who still have bills 150-175, but they were over 600 prior
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1421 kwh used. This is the first winter in this home period as we just completed construction of it in October and I installed the stove in November.
I leave the actual thermostat for the Heat Pump set to off and the thermostat I installed for the owb set to 68 at all times and never touch it. With the owb thermostat set to 68 this keeps the heat pump thermostat showing 70, which is how we like it.
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im not sure what you sue electricity for in yoru home..i can make a guess that your heat pump has a nughe motor to drive teh fan? I know mine does (it is a 1 hp motor) if yours is the same it rewuires about .750 kw per hour to run...and if it runs 24/7 (as mine does) that would be about 530 kwh a month that would leave you about 1000 to run the rest of your home..electric dryer?...well water pump? electric cook stove?..im not sure what you use but i can tell you this, if all you have is the electric bill and no other ustilities such as gas or propane..i would call that cheap
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I have a old farm house that has no insulation in the walls. We have insulated the atic with spray foam that helps a lot. I am proof that you can save I can show you the bills. You house is a good size and that may not be a lot of electric for the size of the house. Last month we used 1751. That may be a lot for some but same period 2 years ago I used 7238 in a 28 day cycle.
If I was you I would get in a habit of checking the meter at the same time ever day and see what is changing the usage. I found several things that we was doing that changed it for us. I kept a detail note of what was used that day, weather outside and how much wood I used to kept the house warm. It will pay off and trust me Scott has helped me out a lot and will answer anytime I need him.
2 years ago my bill was 878.35 and the house was cool and now my bill was 182.23 with house being nice a toasty. I still am trying to get it down even more but I am very pleased with my Heatmaster.
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I have newly constructed house that is very well insulated. We do indeed have a electric dryer, electric stove and electric hot water heater, electric televisions and all that electric stuff. lol
My fan does not run anywhere remotely close to 24/7. I realize that $173 is not an overly expensive electric bill, but when people are going on how it shouldn't be more than $80-85 a month it seems really high too me. At this point, I would have been better off to just install a fireplace insert, it sure would've cost a TON less and required a whole lot less work. Heck, my brother has a 3000+ sq ft house and heats solely with electric heat pump and his bill was $224... and he sat on the couch and played xBox as I split wood and loaded my owb.
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Are you not heating your water with the stove?
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Are you not heating your water with the stove?
If he ain't that could be $75/mo
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anyone payinig 8.2 cents a kilowatt hour and spending less than 100 dollars a month is a hermit that live in the dark!
average clothes dryer and washing machine 7 average computer 4 average dish washer 3
average freezer 5 average furnace blower 6 average lighting 11 average cook stove 7 average fridge 6 average TV 3 average deep well pump 5 average hot water heater (family of 4) 70 total of 127 not counting the little things like moms hair dryer,curling iron or dads electric shaver ,all those electric tools in "the man cave"or the microwave..or stereo..or vacume cleaner or humidifier or kids lap tops or yard light if you have one..ect.
it does appear by the numbers you quote that you in fact are paying (last month) 23 % less than your brother in law. (could your brother in law be on "average billing"?
he only used (according to your mumbers) 415 KW more than you..that would (in heating) equate to about 16 btu per square foot and that is a little low ( i think more like it should be at least 20)
then again, perhaps you are just an electricity hog? you leave lights on...yougot some stuff the brother in law dont?
is your brothe in laws heat pump...geothermal?
low bills can be had, my eldest son has some under 100. he (occasionally) works 12 hour shifts 7 days a week and lives alone. eveything is electric but his heat. his lights are rarley on when he works these shifts. hot water for one is about 40 a month
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Are you not heating your water with the stove?
Yep, sure am.
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anyone payinig 8.2 cents a kilowatt hour and spending less than 100 dollars a month is a hermit that live in the dark!
average clothes dryer and washing machine 7 average computer 4 average dish washer 3
average freezer 5 average furnace blower 6 average lighting 11 average cook stove 7 average fridge 6 average TV 3 average deep well pump 5 average hot water heater (family of 4) 70 total of 127 not counting the little things like moms hair dryer,curling iron or dads electric shaver ,all those electric tools in "the man cave"or the microwave..or stereo..or vacume cleaner or humidifier or kids lap tops or yard light if you have one..ect.
it does appear by the numbers you quote that you in fact are paying (last month) 23 % less than your brother in law. (could your brother in law be on "average billing"?
he only used (according to your mumbers) 415 KW more than you..that would (in heating) equate to about 16 btu per square foot and that is a little low ( i think more like it should be at least 20)
then again, perhaps you are just an electricity hog? you leave lights on...yougot some stuff the brother in law dont?
is your brothe in laws heat pump...geothermal?
low bills can be had, my eldest son has some under 100. he (occasionally) works 12 hour shifts 7 days a week and lives alone. eveything is electric but his heat. his lights are rarley on when he works these shifts. hot water for one is about 40 a month
Well, I wouldn't say we are energy hogs, as it is just the wife and one child. We never leave the lights on and all that we rarely have more than one television on at a time, wash/dry clothes no more than one day a week, etc...etc... etc...
What I don't understand is that when I initially got this owb the talk of sub-one hundred dollar electric bills seemed to be the norm and now suddenly it seems to be quite the opposite... almost as if that is unrealistic.
As for my brother, he is not on the "average billing" or anything like that, this was his actual usage. Also, it's not like he is the only example I could offer... I have people all around me with electric bills that are $20-50 more than mine and I am the one out in the cold loading a stove while they stay warm inside the house. :o
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then i agree that for what little the difference is you should sell your stove but i wouldn't hurry till i checkedit out more carefully
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I wouldn't give up. You have something going on. It's there to be saved i have the proof.
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If I were you, I would get one of these and figure out where the power is going.
http://www.theenergydetective.com/ (http://www.theenergydetective.com/)
You could take it to your brother's house and put it on the wires to his heat pump and see exactly what he is paying for heat too.
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Seeing this thread still going I have an update after the first full electric bill using my OWB. When this thread started over a month ago I had just fired up my OWB and my December electric bill was $210. My January electric bill was my first fully on the OWB and was $132. Not bad but my biggest saving is burning nearly zero propane. We did have one warmer weekend where we opted to let the fire go out and clean up the stove so I used a few gallons of gas then. We have a hot tub and at some point I will hook it up to the OWB and I would expect my electric to get below that magic $100/mo during winter at that time. But I am also saving I believe $300 - $400/mo during the heating season on not buying gas. There is more effort in keeping the fire going and collecting wood but the savings are there. Now if we could just figure out how to use the OWB to offset the AC electric in summer!
kc
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I am 100% all electric... Family of four, clothes washed daily, dish washer, you name it.
My electric rate is 13.4 cents per kwh
Here is a look at a recent bill... 716 kwh used for $96.23. Last winter same bill we used 789. Last year this particular billing cycle was 5.1 degrees colder.
So as you can see my electric rate is wayyyy higher than 8 and were hovering around $100/mo and often dipping into the 80's
What could be the difference? Lights are left on way more than I'd like by the kids, but there all entirely cfl lights through the home. TV hardly ever shuts off but it's an LED tv. We have a deep freeze but it's not huge and is pretty full usually, it's probably 5' long. My garage is tied into this service and the only electric we use out there is basically the garage door openers. Kids have a tv in there play room playing every waking hour, but once again it's an led tv.
For anyone to have a $170 bills and using a stove sounds high, especially if there electric rate is reasonable. As I've stated, home is 2200 square feet, 4 occupants, were all electric except water me heat and were around $100/mo.
Before I started using the wood stove my bills were $550 n the winter! I was using around 4000kwh/mo in the winter and now around 700kwh. That's why I have no trouble telling folks or showing them my bills where I cut mine by 70-80%
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This was taken from my electric companies website and we have a 400 Watt yard light that accounts for $14.27 of the bill each month.
My Electric Rate
Schedule A-1
Farm and Home
Energy Charge .09083
Off Peak Energy Charge .05441
So, as you can see the rates aren't terribly high either.
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This was taken from my electric companies website and we have a 400 Watt yard light that accounts for $14.27 of the bill each month.
My Electric Rate
Schedule A-1
Farm and Home
Energy Charge .09083
Off Peak Energy Charge .05441
So, as you can see the rates aren't terribly high either.
Well something is obviously messed up if your a 3 person family is using 175 bucks a month and you have electric rates that cheap when you have no heating charge and no water heating charge....
Look at my example, we have no off peak rates, its just High!! If I lived in your area my electric hill would be around $52 bucks using an average of your 2 rates and diving by my last bill of 716kwh
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Apparently... just not sure what it could be at this point. Like I said, the breakers to the heat pump are all even off and have been for the last couple of months now. At this point, I am at a loss.
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That is why you should get one of those energy monitors.
It might even turn out to be something like a defective power meter.
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your brother inlaw from what i can tell has a super insulated house. lets look at your numbers. you say his bill was 224 and you think without heat it would be about 100 so his heat bill is 124 dollars. for his 124 dollars at 7 cents a kw hr that would be about 1771 KWH according o the net 1 KWH is 3412 btu so 1771 KWH is 6,042,652 btu for the 28 day month..divide by 28=215,809 btu for a day..divide by 24 is 8,992 per hour divided by the 3000 square feet is an average of 2.9 btu per square foot to heat his home???? my math is wrong?? i dont think this is even possable?
i would guess in a very well insulated house you would average at least 5 to 10 btu persquare foot with an averge winter temp of 35 or 40 degrees?
perhaps the real pros can double check my numbers??
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your brother inlaw from what i can tell has a super insulated house. lets look at your numbers. you say his bill was 224 and you think without heat it would be about 100 so his heat bill is 124 dollars. for his 124 dollars at 7 cents a kw hr that would be about 1771 KWH according o the net 1 KWH is 3412 btu so 1771 KWH is 6,042,652 btu for the 28 day month..divide by 28=215,809 btu for a day..divide by 24 is 8,992 per hour divided by the 3000 square feet is an average of 2.9 btu per square foot to heat his home???? my math is wrong?? i dont think this is even possable?
i would guess in a very well insulated house you would average at least 5 to 10 btu persquare foot with an averge winter temp of 35 or 40 degrees?
perhaps the real pros can double check my numbers??
3412 btu per kw is for resistive heaters. A heatpump runs well over 100% efficiency when calculating power usage. I don't know off hand how much but geothermal would be the highest.
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WOW i jsut found another site that say ouside heat pumps can make four times the energy as a resitive heater....SELL THE STOVE...i give up
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WOW i jsut found another site that say ouside heat pumps can make four times the energy as a resitive heater....SELL THE STOVE...i give up
In all seriousness, I truly don't believe the electric bill would be much if at all higher with just using the electric heat pump. The wife says shut it down for the month of march and see, but what if I am wrong and the electric bill goes up to $500? lol
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i think rsi has the best idea about gettting the tool that can acutally measure your usage..if yoru brother inlaw has the same kind of heat pump, put it on his and see just what his usage is for a few days or try your own. then try all your stuff , maybe you have a trickle loss some where..i had one a few years back and it cost me a few hundred dollars beforei found it
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i found this tidbit on thenet aswell average home (what ever that is) in ontario or michigan electric furnace for the year 30,000 KWh....outdoor heat pump 15,000 KWh ..geothermal 8,000 KWh
i knwo there will be a lot of variables but just thought i would throw it up there. maybe some guys can emember what they used and compare to this?
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Geothermal is way over rated, I put boilers in for people with geo many times.
Geo customers went from 600 with a heat pump to 475 after a 20k dollar investment and were freezing to death... Install the wood boiler the bill is $100 and there toasty warm
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I also agree with RSI. An energy meter may be $200 well spent. I just received my first electricity bill since October. It appears my so called "smart meter" (we have 3 different time of use prices) was not working properly and I was issued a credit. Geez, maybe I'll get one too and keep an eye on things.
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I also agree with RSI. An energy meter may be $200 well spent. I just received my first electricity bill since October. It appears my so called "smart meter" (we have 3 different time of use prices) was not working properly and I was issued a credit. Geez, maybe I'll get one too and keep an eye on things.
you in ontario crow?..my dad had a small machine shop in teh country and itwas on a road where three phase went down so we put it in the shop...we had the same meter for 15 years...they came one day and said they thought our meter was wrong and they were going to send it in for testing and we could be there if we liked...my dad trusts no one so he went to watch the test.....our meter was over reading by 5 percent...so my dad thinks 5 percent for 15 years allright!! they creidited him 5 percent of the last three months before they read the :( meter
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Yes Willie, I am from Ontario. Makes you wonder how many other meters are not right. Not sure if Creeker has the same meter as us but may be the same type of issue. My wife's parents had theirs changed (not by choice)- it was not reading enough kwh, hydro changed it and when the tech finished said he will be back again as this new one was not working at all. He had to hit it a couple times to get it working.
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Your breaker to the heat pump may be off but that don't mean those heat strips aren't coming on.
That would explain all of it..
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Your breaker to the heat pump may be off but that don't mean those heat strips aren't coming on.
That would explain all of it..
Oh Oh :bash:my geothermal has a warning light if they were to come on...but they cant..i didn't buy them i only seen the light come on a couple of times and back then i had a woodinsert that i would fire up to tack care of it
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Your breaker to the heat pump may be off but that don't mean those heat strips aren't coming on.
That would explain all of it..
At this point I think it may be more to do with something you said earlier than anything... the heating of the water. I have a side arm exchanger... and I don't feel it is very efficient, if efficient at all in heating the water. I turned the breaker off to the hot water heater yesterday at 2... we will see today if I still have hot water after showers and what not.
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I started my stove at the end of October.I have a heat pump w/ propane back-up that cuts on at 40 degree F. I to was disappointed in my electrical savings and started researching my usage,I hadn't noticed but my Killowatt usage had started going up by 25%-30% in the summer of 2012.When I started my stove the killowatt usage compared to prior year stayed about the same (8% reduction) still happy as I was not using any propane.Not ready to believe the electric usage I called the power company and started investigating with my amprobe.The power company sent a guy out and he did the same thing I did ,we couldn't find any load to support the KW usage.He decided to get a monitor (PMI?) put on the meter that monitored the usage 24/7.Heres where it gets fuzzy,the results showed a draw of close to 30amps almost constantly on a 120v circuit (BS).The electric guy couldn't explain it,I had amp draws 30times a day w/ my meter that refuted those readings.Long story short November & Dec. usage no savings.Since the study, with no changes made Jan. and Feb. usage down 40% on elec. the electric company has no explaination.Now my bill is around $100.00 and no propane.
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^ Good information. I just contacted my electric company and spoke with them about this. They are going "check into" my account and call me back and then send someone out to see what is going on.
Thanks for all the information guys!
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Your breaker to the heat pump may be off but that don't mean those heat strips aren't coming on.
That would explain all of it..
That is true as I had my breaker pulled outside and the heat strips was coming on.
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I'm still going with that the heat strips are on "if" the meter is correct
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^ How would you know if they were coming on?
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One way might be to turn your thermostat up like 8-10 degrees and see if the aux or emergency heat light come on.....
If that light don't come on, to out and turn the pumps off on the stove and turn the thermostat up to see if you still get heat
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^ Okay I turned the Heat Pump thermostat up to like 80 and it kicks the fan on and blows out air, but the emergency heat light never comes on. I then went out and turned off the pumps and came back in and turned it on Emergency Heat and it again kicks the fan on and blows out air, but it doesn't appear to be warm air in the least.
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^ Okay I turned the Heat Pump thermostat up to like 80 and it kicks the fan on and blows out air, but the emergency heat light never comes on. I then went out and turned off the pumps and came back in and turned it on Emergency Heat and it again kicks the fan on and blows out air, but it doesn't appear to be warm air in the least.
Well.. I think we can eliminate your heat strips being on.
When comparing your situation to mine, you see it should be impossible for you to have electric bills that high when heating with the stove.
Your buddy for example, I'm sure if he turned off his heat and hot water his electric bill would be down in the range I suspected mine would be in your area
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^ I was over at the local hardware store today and they sell Heat Master (I believe) stoves. He (as do I) believe 100% of my problem is the side arm exchanger for the hot water heater. He and I both are in agreement that it is basically doing nothing at all in the way of heating my water. If that is indeed the case that would explain the electric bill not being down closer to the $100 range. Without the $15 yard light and all the fees my fee for electric usage is probably around $150. He gave me some suggestions on reworking the side arm or just buying a plate exchanger and redoing it for next winter. So, with that said, I will be trying his suggestions come summer.
Thanks again Scott for being so helpful!
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^ I was over at the local hardware store today and they sell Heat Master (I believe) stoves. He (as do I) believe 100% of my problem is the side arm exchanger for the hot water heater. He and I both are in agreement that it is basically doing nothing at all in the way of heating my water. If that is indeed the case that would explain the electric bill not being down closer to the $100 range. Without the $15 yard light and all the fees my fee for electric usage is probably around $150. He gave me some suggestions on reworking the side arm or just buying a plate exchanger and redoing it for next winter. So, with that said, I will be trying his suggestions come summer.
Thanks again Scott for being so helpful!
How is our side arm rigged that it won't work?
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Hey, instead of guessing it could be the sidearm, turn the breaker off to the hot water tank and find out for sure! Process of elimination :thumbup:
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Sidearms can easily get airlocked and do nothing. If you have the relief at the top, you can use that to get the air out.
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Sidearms can easily get airlocked and do nothing. If you have the relief at the top, you can use that to get the air out.
I thought that but was also thinking why not just turn breaker off to see if its working or not
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Yeah, I was assuming he was going to do that. If it cools down then that is the place to look for the fix first.
If the water is really hard, the sidearm might be plugged.
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It's funny you suggest that... That is exactly what I did on Sunday around 2pm. By Monday evening there was no hot water after taking showers... Tuesday morning it was nothing but cold water. So, it is obviously doing nothing at all. I will try the air lock thing now.
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If it got cold without using any water then it definitely isn't doing anything. If it just happens after a lot of use then it may just not be able to keep up.
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^ I would say it was more after a lot of use, but am not 100% sure on that. I tried the air lock thing and it just shot water out the relief valve, so obviously it isn't air locked.
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It just takes a tiny bit of air to cause problems.
What type of sidearm do you have? If just a single pipe it probably has about 3 or 4 time the recovery time of the electric heater.
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after I got my first full bill (Jan of 2011) I asked my neighbor what his electric bill was he answered about $450.00 and asked what mine was? I felt bad to answer because mine was $170.00
the houses are about the same size 4000 sq ft But I am heating my 3 car garage as well. So I would say something is wrong with that small of a savings.
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jam, could you explain further. Are you both heating with electricity ( home, dhw and garages)? By my calculations your bill is 37% of your neighbors. You will still have the regular requirements ( lights, fridge, laundry, etc,etc) and also the pumps for the owb. I just find it hard to compare my bill to anybody elses, they may be similar size homes but everybody has there own way to run them. I do not have an owb yet but if i get one I don't really expect my electricity usage to change as I heat with oil, house and dhw. In fact it may increase slightly to run pumps.
P.S welcome to the forum.
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My bill increased with outdoor wood boiler. In all honestly I think these owb save very little money if you add all the time and labor on top of everything else. Do I enjoy mine yes but did I enjoy laying around and letting the propane do it own thing? Its a wash imo.
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My bill increased with outdoor wood boiler. In all honestly I think these owb save very little money if you add all the time and labor on top of everything else. Do I enjoy mine yes but did I enjoy laying around and letting the propane do it own thing? Its a wash imo.
i tend to agree in a lot of cases...unless your heat bill is so high that the payback for a stove installed can't be recouped in about 4 or 5 years it may not be the right thing to do. you might do better paying out the cost of a professionaly installed OWB in added insualtion and new windows to save energy..this would likley increase the resale value of your home more than an OWB
perhaps one of the dealers here could give a ballpark figure of a new gasser for say 3000 square feet of home.. an underground line of say 100 feet... heat exchanger for furnace...plate exchanger for domestic water and the cost of delivery and al lassociated plumbing and installation of such..then folks coud decide how much they could save by doing their own install or having the dealer do the whole "turn key" operation and weigh that cost with the cost of heating now..then they could decide if it is right for them. i do believe these things are not for everyone..they take time and dedication and some of us do not have that time or the dedication it will take to look after one.
yes they save paying the fuel man.. but how much do you have to save to feel good about all the time you have to spend to save that money...big decisons need to be made before jumping in
I have a feeling the averager life span of these stoves may be 12 to 15 years (just a guess on my part)..if you have 15,000 invested in all the parts and labor and the stove that would work out to 1000 bucks a year so for your stove...how much are you really saving
some will save lots..some not so much? you can bet fuel will continue to rise but at todays dollars your saving may not be as high as you think
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I think I did the opposite since I added windows etc to make my home very efficient. I wish I would've bought a ridgewood stove for lots cheaper and then It would've been worth it for me. I have about 9 grand into everything and don't really use much wood so it will take a long time to pay for itself.
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I've heard it all now.. If folks wasn't saving money, why would they want to do all of this?
How about some real numbers. I heated my home with propane one winter, spent $2900. Still had electric bills 140-150. So 7 months of hot water. There is another $250. So over propane my stove saved me $3150 per winter over propane, those were 2006-2007 propane prices. Went my last winter and electric and for the same time period spent around $3200. Electric here has went up 17% since then.
So $3200 x 1.17 = $3744 per winter over electric. Electric rates here are set to increase an estimated 17% per year over the next 3 years. So, $3744 x 1.51 = $5653. That is how much the stove will be saving me over electric per year by 2016. Those increases are supposedly already passed and going to take place.
So lets pretend. Lets pretend that electric rates are going to stay at that rate for the next 20 years, which is near impossible. 20 x 5653 = 113,060
Tell me one other thing that you can spend 8-10k dollars on and potentially save you 110,000 dollars on over 20 years????
Now there are many variables, wood cost, in my situation it's free. I can cut a winters worth of wood in 2-3 days, or simply get free slabs. Other variables are operating costs of running the stove!? It's like anything else, how well you take care of it will determine that.
So the potential for huge savings is very real.
My situation is electric, a high rat I know. However I know folks burning 1500-2000 gallon of kerosene per winter at 4 bucks a gallon?
If I only saved 100-150 bucks per month on my stove over electric, I'd close my business and sell my stove tomorrow
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Now one thing I didn't include was my remaining electric bill.. Which has typically been 80-95 dollars most of the time, since adding an owb. Still though, the savings are huge, comfort level amazing compared to before. That number could be $135-$150 after the scheduled increases
Victor, if you seriously think it's a wash, why go through all the labor involved? I wouldn't that's for sure
Some folks justify this by saying there "sticking it to the man" which only makes me chuckle, but the real thing is trying to save money.
Like Willie says there not for everyone, but only saving $1000 bucks a year just doesn't make sense to me, most folks i install for there heating bills go from 400 to $60-70 or from $6-700 down to $100. So the savings are real, and most customers I deal with recoup there investment in under 3 winters
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Scott i agree 100 percent, some folks savings can be amazing, but there are other folks that may get caught up in the wonder of "free heat". there are many people out there that live in a 16 or 1800 square foot home that is well insulated and maybe only pay 1000 to 1200 a year for heat ..personally when i built my stove my heat bill for the previous years was only around 1500 plus electric hot water and my stove was actually bildt on a dare (or i likley would never have made it) now at that time a store bought stove was about 4000 so it would have still been about three year payback after the plumbing end of things)
now if my heat bill with my old stove was 2500 a year and a new gasser would cost me 11or 12 grand (im guessing you could quote the price in canadian dollars if you wish) plus say 200 feet of your best 5 wrap (i will guess 1200 bucks) then valves..heat exchangers..elbows..ect..and a plate exchanger..another 600 and labor if i couldn't do any of this my self (1 day at 30 bucks an hour) 250 bucks more for a total of around 14 or 15 grand all in , turn key...so it would take about (without counting fuel increases) 6 years to pay back the cost of the stove and installation...now if we said the stoves average life was 12 years we may save enough to buy another stove at the end of the current stoves life. so we have cut and hauled and split wood for 12 years to break even..for some folks that might not be a fair trade. for those folks spending the intitial cost of that 15,000 investment might think spending half on new windows and insulation may be a better option? now you, I and many many others that have high energy bills may well benifit from these stoves...all i am saying is before someone goes out and takes on that much debt they may want to consider all other options and costs first.
My sons propane bill last year was 1100 dollars, if i was not able to build him a stove and install it my self..i doubt that he would have ever considered laying out 10 or 15 thousand dollars to save 1200 a year.
these stoves do have thier place but you must also realize there are places they just don't make sense adn that is all i was pointing out. some thought should go into making such a lrage decision that will not only hit yoru pocket book but will tie you to either the expense of buying wood or the time deidicated to cutting, hauling, stacking, and feeding the thing (i know some of the folks are like me and possable you and enjoy going out and getting wood, but there are others who would sooner lay on teh couch and watch american idol!
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Yea. All situations are different. My parents have a 1400sq ft home, very well insulted, geothermal unit, winter electric bills still average probably $235. Not horrible, by any means. I'm quit sure I could get there bill down to $70-$80 for the 7 heating months, which to me is not much savings, around $155/mo or $1085 bucks per year.
However he also has a garage, and my mom has a 1200 square foot sewing room over the garage, it's currently heated with a pellet stove, I would estimate they burn 3-4 tons of pellets per year. So lets say there is potentially another $1000.
He has been entertaining getting an empyre pro 200 to do all of it, lets say he had $12,000 in the installation. 2085 savings per year before wood costs, which to him is free or only the cost of fuel. So lets say 12,000/2085. 5.75 winters to recover initial investment, of course there will likely be up keep costs in there so 6 years.
So as you can see in there case, it's justifiable, but not overly impressive. Think about how many purchases folks make though that never pay back a cent? It's a lot. If they only had the home, of course we wouldn't be looking at nearly as an expensive unit. Plus we all know that there are many more affordable units currently than a phase 2 gasser. If they went with let's say a regular furnace and different brand the total investment may only be 7,000, which pay back would be around 3 winters.
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I know this thread is all about the electrical savings and gas/oil $$$$, but if my house was to burn down because of my indoor stove and someone was to get hurt or lose everything.....theres no price on that so its also a piece of mind/saftey gain. I have a friend who will be getting one soon who also heats with wood/heat pump but his kids are having breathing problems in the winter from smoke so to get that away from the house how much would you spend. There is more to it than just a bottom line I think.
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I know this thread is all about the electrical savings and gas/oil $$$$, but if my house was to burn down because of my indoor stove and someone was to get hurt or lose everything.....theres no price on that so its also a piece of mind/saftey gain. I have a friend who will be getting one soon who also heats with wood/heat pump but his kids are having breathing problems in the winter from smoke so to get that away from the house how much would you spend. There is more to it than just a bottom line I think.
Very true, and comfort as well!!!
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Would you have your house at 72-74 degrees if heating with OIL,GAS,PROPANE OR ELECTRIC? That would be a NO for most of us. The cost recovery time would be much quicker it you figured what it would cost you keeping your house as warm as you do now. And how many of you heat your garage,shop,barn etc. with your OWB that you couldnt even think of doing before? Plus, aint it fun to cut wood.LOL
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I feel that I am saving as the highest bill before I moved in was 450 and now it's down to as low as 87 usually 100. +\-! Either way if you build a new house and put in electric, fuel oil etc they will always cost you. I am not sure show to figure how long it will take to recover cost (9600.00)? But I enjoy it and like Scott said its comfortable or seems to be better than electric heat
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This is my first year burning and have enjoyed the whole experience.I live in a wooded area that makes it very convient for cutting wood within literally yards of my home.I added a 1000 sq. ft. shop to my heating load this winter,I only keep the shop at 45 degree unless I am in there like most of the weekend and evenings I have the home at 72 degree up from 70 in previous years.My home is 11 years old very well insulated w/ excellent windows (lots of them).I had what I would consider a very efficient heating system for my avg. ambient winter temp. My heat pump would operate at temps. 40 degree and above below that my gas furnace would cut in.I have kept very accurate records of my savings so I could share the info w/ friends.My area has had a very similiar winter compared to last year so I compared this years vs. last.My electrical savings are pushing 40% ($80.00 x 5mo.=$400.00) Propane approx. 400 gal. @ $3.50=$1400.00.Approx. $2000.00 = 10 year payback.
2 degree warmer house = happy wife.....1000sq. ft. shop warm as need be but never below 45 to keep essentials from freezing=happy me.With me I would do it again.Just my 2 cents
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2.5 years ago I moved into a new (to me house). It's 34 years old, fairly well insulated, 3,000 square feet, has a fireplace, and oil for heat. I burned a little over 5 cords of wood that first winter in the fireplace just trying to keep the heater from kicking on so often. Now, I know that's not efficient at all but I sell 60-75 cords of wood a year so throwing 5 cords in there really wasn't a big deal to me. We kept the heat at 60 at night and 66 during the day. The living room and kitchen were always nice and toasty with a fire going but I was a slave to it when I was home. I weighed a lot of options and decided to put out the most money up front and bought a P&M Opt. 250. I spent $2000 on oil that first year and zero since. I now keep my house at 66 at night (bedroom window open though so I can actually sleep) and 72-74 during the day. With the rising cost of oil, I figured I would be spending at least $3500 a year on oil to keep the house warm. And now I have a place to get rid of all the uglies/partial rotten/pine from my wood operation. Before that, I had a hard time getting rid of that stuff. With all of the money invested, including the unit, underground pex, concrete slab, and installation(since I'm not the handiest guy in the world), the stove will pay itself off in 3.5 years max.
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I realize this thread is quite long, but I have another suggestion to check. An old electrician friend of mine said to get rid of all the little transformers you can and watch the usuage plummet. Cell phone, modem, clock, computer, video game, chargers , printers, rechargeable drills, etc. All that crap has those little transformers, he said those things are HUGE HOGS. I am never home to get the family to unplug so my rates are still high, but mom unplugged all her stuff and has seen regular drop of at least 25% in the last four months she was diligent about use. It may be some pumps, but I think it may be the "other" stuff contributing to high rates not necessarily the owb. I have not seen a bill less than $180 ever. But it is all the idiots leaving every thing on all the time that is my problem. My owb is the most efficient thing in my household.
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This is my first year burning and have enjoyed the whole experience.I live in a wooded area that makes it very convient for cutting wood within literally yards of my home.I added a 1000 sq. ft. shop to my heating load this winter,I only keep the shop at 45 degree unless I am in there like most of the weekend and evenings I have the home at 72 degree up from 70 in previous years.My home is 11 years old very well insulated w/ excellent windows (lots of them).I had what I would consider a very efficient heating system for my avg. ambient winter temp. My heat pump would operate at temps. 40 degree and above below that my gas furnace would cut in.I have kept very accurate records of my savings so I could share the info w/ friends.My area has had a very similiar winter compared to last year so I compared this years vs. last.My electrical savings are pushing 40% ($80.00 x 5mo.=$400.00) Propane approx. 400 gal. @ $3.50=$1400.00.Approx. $2000.00 = 10 year payback.
2 degree warmer house = happy wife.....1000sq. ft. shop warm as need be but never below 45 to keep essentials from freezing=happy me.With me I would do it again.Just my 2 cents
You spent 20,000 on your install???
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Oops, Scott I meant 5 yrs. My install was 10K including pipe,heat exchanger etc.
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Oops, Scott I meant 5 yrs. My install was 10K including pipe,heat exchanger etc.
Had me worried.... Lol