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Author Topic: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype  (Read 20345 times)

hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2016, 06:48:51 PM »

When did you start having problems? I think you screwed up your air balance with that new blower that moves more CFm than the original. Why didn't you replace it with the same model of blower? These gassers are a finely tuned machine.  It would be like putting a fire hose for a fuel injector into your Ford Focus and then asking why it runs awful.

I think you need to open your primary air vents just enough to keep the coal bed going well enough to break down the wood load into wood gas on top of the bed. Then you need to slowly adjust your secondary air incrimentally while checking each movement with how your secondary is reacting to your adjustments. I would say go back and buy the oem fan and you should be good to go but now you don't know where the air settings were set to. You may still have to go back to the old fan though if you can't get the balance right.
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Bender

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2016, 08:16:14 PM »

When did you start having problems? I think you screwed up your air balance with that new blower that moves more CFm than the original. Why didn't you replace it with the same model of blower? These gassers are a finely tuned machine.  It would be like putting a fire hose for a fuel injector into your Ford Focus and then asking why it runs awful.

I think you need to open your primary air vents just enough to keep the coal bed going well enough to break down the wood load into wood gas on top of the bed. Then you need to slowly adjust your secondary air incrimentally while checking each movement with how your secondary is reacting to your adjustments. I would say go back and buy the oem fan and you should be good to go but now you don't know where the air settings were set to. You may still have to go back to the old fan though if you can't get the balance right.

It behaved pretty much the same way last year with the original fan. When I spoke with Brian at Heat Smart he suggested a stronger fan. I see your point though. It really is like a carburetor and I may have just jetted it too big.

I'll close down the intake tube discs to 1/4" out and add the variable speed controller to the blower. That should give me a chance to tweak it for optimal air flow. 

Thanks.
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2016, 05:33:23 AM »

That makes sense then if it wouldn't gas last year with the old fan. What's your moisture content of your wood? Yes this is just like a carb. You need to get the air to fuel balance correct. You could also cover up some of the intake on the fan to reduce CFm
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Bender

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2016, 05:59:26 AM »

That makes sense then if it wouldn't gas last year with the old fan. What's your moisture content of your wood? Yes this is just like a carb. You need to get the air to fuel balance correct. You could also cover up some of the intake on the fan to reduce CFm

I don't  have a moisture meter, but the pile of wood I've been burning from lately is good and dry elm and cedar, some split, some 6" or smaller rounders. I hadn't considered blocking off part of the fan intake... Good idea.

I appreciate the suggestions! 
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2016, 06:48:34 AM »

I don't know how much gasser experience you have but I have found that rounds do not work in gassers. Basically you need a coal bed with a load of wood on top of that coal bed with full contact with the coal bed. So if you have rounds split them in half and place them flat side down onto the coal bed. Then on top of that pack your wood light tightly together with varying sizes splits as tight together as you can. This will allow the gassing process to continue as each layer of wood is broken down to coals.
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Bender

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2016, 10:47:55 AM »

I don't know how much gasser experience you have but I have found that rounds do not work in gassers. Basically you need a coal bed with a load of wood on top of that coal bed with full contact with the coal bed. So if you have rounds split them in half and place them flat side down onto the coal bed. Then on top of that pack your wood light tightly together with varying sizes splits as tight together as you can. This will allow the gassing process to continue as each layer of wood is broken down to coals.

This is my first gasser, so not a lot of experience. The loading method you explained makes a lot of sense and I think it explains at least some of the issues I'm having. Looking at the firebox a few hours after loading, I'm seeing a 6-8" bridge over the nozzle, where the hot coals have burned away (probably from too much air). Sounds like I need hot coals directly above the nozzle in order to get it gassing well.

My plan is to install a variable speed control this afternoon and close down the intake pipe a bit. Tweaking the air settings should be easier after that.

I'm curious, what size rounders do you generally not bother with splitting?
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RSI

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2016, 11:28:21 AM »

I don't have any experience with that boiler but my guess would be not enough air in the firebox. Insufficient air in the firebox can cause bridging too.

Can you open up the primary air or close off the secondary air to get more into the firebox? Did you compare the cfm vs pressure between the new blower and the old one? Just being rated at more CFM no load doesn't necessarily mean that it will supply more on the boiler.
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2016, 11:33:30 AM »

it sounds like you are getting what is called "bridging". Bridging can be caused by a few different things. One of them is if the wood moisture content is to much. Like I described before in order for the gasser to operate you need a good bed of coals, on top of those coals you need a load of wood in good contact with the coal bed. That wood on top of the coal bed is heated to the point it begins to off gas and smoke but not physically " catch on fire". The wood is broken down putting off wood gas and turning into coals to replace the coals that it has consumed to turn itself into coals. If the wood is to green the coal bed will use to much energy to breakdown th green wood and th coal bed won't be able to continue self generating. If your wood is greener smaller splits help, if it is drier larger splits work better. A small split for green wood for me is in the range of 3-4 inches max. Seasoned wood I have found works well up to 6-7 inch split range. First thing I would do if I were you would be to get a good bed of coals built up. Use lots of kindling and smaller splits of hardwood for a few hours to get this nice coal bed. After you've got a good coal bed you can than place your splits stacked very tightly on top of the coal bed with everything around the 4 inch size split and see how things go. I think your going to find after a little adjustment with the air and loading it like this that it is going to start gassing and continue as long as the coal bed is being replenished.

As far as rounds I split every round until I get below 3 inches.  Unfortunatly it's just the nature off a gasser.
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RSI

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2016, 11:36:58 AM »

it sounds like you are getting what is called "bridging". Bridging can be caused by a few different things. One of them is if the wood moisture content is to much. Like I described before in order for the gasser to operate you need a good bed of coals, on top of those coals you need a load of wood in good contact with the coal bed. That wood on top of the coal bed is heated to the point it begins to off gas and smoke but not physically " catch on fire". The wood is broken down putting off wood gas and turning into coals to replace the coals that it has consumed to turn itself into coals. If the wood is to green the coal bed will use to much energy to breakdown th green wood and th coal bed won't be able to continue self generating. If your wood is greener smaller splits help, if it is drier larger splits work better. A small split for green wood for me is in the range of 3-4 inches max. Seasoned wood I have found works well up to 6-7 inch split range. First thing I would do if I were you would be to get a good bed of coals built up. Use lots of kindling and smaller splits of hardwood for a few hours to get this nice coal bed. After you've got a good coal bed you can than place your splits stacked very tightly on top of the coal bed with everything around the 4 inch size split and see how things go. I think your going to find after a little adjustment with the air and loading it like this that it is going to start gassing and continue as long as the coal bed is being replenished.

As far as rounds I split every round until I get below 3 inches.  Unfortunatly it's just the nature off a gasser.
It sounds like your G200 is a lot pickier than mine on how it is loaded. I haven't burned a lot of rounds but never had a problem with 10-12" diameter when I have put them in and have never had any bridging except when the wood was too long. Do you have the air vent clear in the back of the boiler under the drain valve?
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Bender

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2016, 11:57:05 AM »

I don't have any experience with that boiler but my guess would be not enough air in the firebox. Insufficient air in the firebox can cause bridging too.

Can you open up the primary air or close off the secondary air to get more into the firebox? Did you compare the cfm vs pressure between the new blower and the old one? Just being rated at more CFM no load doesn't necessarily mean that it will supply more on the boiler.

I think the problem last year was insufficient air in the firebox. Unfortunately I couldn't find any specs on the old model blower/fan. At this point all I have to go on is a visual in the firebox and it seems to be blowing strong, much stronger than with the old fan. In fact, I have to close the firebox door within 30 seconds or so if I have the fan on or I'll have a fireball shooting out 2 or 3 ft.

Just to make sure I understand, when you say primary air, you're talking about the air delivered directly into the firebox, correct? And secondary is the delivery just below the nozzle?

Thanks!
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Bender

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2016, 12:02:52 PM »

it sounds like you are getting what is called "bridging". Bridging can be caused by a few different things. One of them is if the wood moisture content is to much. Like I described before in order for the gasser to operate you need a good bed of coals, on top of those coals you need a load of wood in good contact with the coal bed. That wood on top of the coal bed is heated to the point it begins to off gas and smoke but not physically " catch on fire". The wood is broken down putting off wood gas and turning into coals to replace the coals that it has consumed to turn itself into coals. If the wood is to green the coal bed will use to much energy to breakdown th green wood and th coal bed won't be able to continue self generating. If your wood is greener smaller splits help, if it is drier larger splits work better. A small split for green wood for me is in the range of 3-4 inches max. Seasoned wood I have found works well up to 6-7 inch split range. First thing I would do if I were you would be to get a good bed of coals built up. Use lots of kindling and smaller splits of hardwood for a few hours to get this nice coal bed. After you've got a good coal bed you can than place your splits stacked very tightly on top of the coal bed with everything around the 4 inch size split and see how things go. I think your going to find after a little adjustment with the air and loading it like this that it is going to start gassing and continue as long as the coal bed is being replenished.

As far as rounds I split every round until I get below 3 inches.  Unfortunatly it's just the nature off a gasser.

Thanks very much for taking the time to explain that. I've had a few occasions when it has worked really well, and it was exactly as you described - a good bed of hot coals in the bottom layer and the wood above looked like giant chunks of charcoal.
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mlappin

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2016, 12:13:45 PM »

it sounds like you are getting what is called "bridging". Bridging can be caused by a few different things. One of them is if the wood moisture content is to much. Like I described before in order for the gasser to operate you need a good bed of coals, on top of those coals you need a load of wood in good contact with the coal bed. That wood on top of the coal bed is heated to the point it begins to off gas and smoke but not physically " catch on fire". The wood is broken down putting off wood gas and turning into coals to replace the coals that it has consumed to turn itself into coals. If the wood is to green the coal bed will use to much energy to breakdown th green wood and th coal bed won't be able to continue self generating. If your wood is greener smaller splits help, if it is drier larger splits work better. A small split for green wood for me is in the range of 3-4 inches max. Seasoned wood I have found works well up to 6-7 inch split range. First thing I would do if I were you would be to get a good bed of coals built up. Use lots of kindling and smaller splits of hardwood for a few hours to get this nice coal bed. After you've got a good coal bed you can than place your splits stacked very tightly on top of the coal bed with everything around the 4 inch size split and see how things go. I think your going to find after a little adjustment with the air and loading it like this that it is going to start gassing and continue as long as the coal bed is being replenished.

As far as rounds I split every round until I get below 3 inches.  Unfortunatly it's just the nature off a gasser.

I’ve been burning up to 12” rounds of ash in my G400, but it is a larger firebox so probably more forgiving. I agree splits do seem to work better, but at the moment I’m still dropping and topping dead or dying ash trees, I get around 60 to 70 logs out of the woods and lined up then I’ll run the processor and have a ton of splits to use.
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2016, 12:54:07 PM »

My info about running a gasser was meant to be generic. My g200 is very forgiving but I know that most gassers are not forgiving and you really need to make sure your splits are the correct sizes and the wood is stacked nice and tight and a good coal bed is established. All that being said the g200 does seem to run the best when these rules are followed but can still run 'ok' if you don't.
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RSI

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2016, 01:10:54 PM »

I don't have any experience with that boiler but my guess would be not enough air in the firebox. Insufficient air in the firebox can cause bridging too.

Can you open up the primary air or close off the secondary air to get more into the firebox? Did you compare the cfm vs pressure between the new blower and the old one? Just being rated at more CFM no load doesn't necessarily mean that it will supply more on the boiler.

I think the problem last year was insufficient air in the firebox. Unfortunately I couldn't find any specs on the old model blower/fan. At this point all I have to go on is a visual in the firebox and it seems to be blowing strong, much stronger than with the old fan. In fact, I have to close the firebox door within 30 seconds or so if I have the fan on or I'll have a fireball shooting out 2 or 3 ft.

Just to make sure I understand, when you say primary air, you're talking about the air delivered directly into the firebox, correct? And secondary is the delivery just below the nozzle?

Thanks!
Yes, Primary is the firebox and secondary is below the nozzles. I may have read your earlier replies wrong. I though you said that when you opened the door it would start burning good down through the nozzles and then would die off a little while after closing the door.
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RSI

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2016, 01:13:19 PM »

My info about running a gasser was meant to be generic. My g200 is very forgiving but I know that most gassers are not forgiving and you really need to make sure your splits are the correct sizes and the wood is stacked nice and tight and a good coal bed is established. All that being said the g200 does seem to run the best when these rules are followed but can still run 'ok' if you don't.
Ah, ok. I wasn't sure if you were talking about your or not since what you were describing is similar to what happens on the G series when the air inlet is plugged.
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