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Author Topic: Classic or E-Classic?  (Read 3889 times)

mfrankm

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Classic or E-Classic?
« on: July 26, 2014, 04:27:19 PM »

Hello everyone, getting ready to buy the OWB in the next couple of weeks. Been online a ton learning more and more. I'm getting close, but want to get some up-to-date summer '14 opinions on this one. Here's where I'm at:

Seems the favorites are CB, P&M, Heatmor, Heatmaster. I think I've ruled out stainless steel. Been talking to the CB dealer who's 50 mi away and he seems pretty solid. Going by there Monday to look at his setup and stock. Pretty sure at this point I will go with a CB. I'll admit the July rebate for $400-600 is enticing. But I'm not gonna let that be the most important factor.

The new federal rules that go into effect next year seem to have major implications for this industry and thus my decision. The way I understand it companies will no longer be able to manufacture "classic" or non-gassifying boilers. For most of them that is their bread and butter and always has been. Seems like those companies are going to struggle to make the jump to all gassifier sales. Companies will probably shut down. From what I understand CB has been in the gassifier game for 10ish years, and their e-classics basically wrote the book the EPA is reading and repeating. Perhaps this is not perfectly accurate, and I hope someone will step in here if that is not the case. If that is the case, CB seems like a better bet to survive the next couple of years and be around to stand behind their product in the years to follow.

But for now I still have the choice, Classic or E-Classic. If they were closer in price I would probably go for the E-Classic. I like the idea and efficiency of "full burn" or whatever you want to call it. I'm an energy geek, so getting all the BTUs out of the wood sounds nice. But maybe not $5000 nice. The emissions thing matters too, but I really don't feel like my carbon footprint is going to be that much bigger by burning wood traditionally vs. gassifying. Guess I could do the math, but I don't really think that should be the decisive factor either.

I guess the most important thing to me is using it. Time spent operating and maintaining. I don't mind working for my heat instead of paying for it, but less is better than more in either regard. So how much time will I spend on getting wood ready, and how much time will I spend cleaning the unit I suppose have become my primary points of comparison.

I have plenty of wood available on the property. Seasoning it won't be too much trouble, we already keep wood for years and burn the oldest stuff. Burn from one end and add to the other. But it will take extra effort I believe to store a larger amount and maintain dryness so carefully for such a long period of time (for the e-classic) as opposed to just choppin and burnin a little more loosely (for the classic). So that is a consideration.

Also the quality, we don't have oak or locust trees die or fall every year. Sometimes we get lucky, but sometimes I'll be burning poplar and other less-than-ideal woods. In fact I have a LOT of poplar right now. A whole lot.

At the same time, some things say I'll burn 40% less with the E-Classic. Can anyone confirm this notion? That would be pretty significant.

Finally maintenance. Seems like weekly cleaning is necessary with the E-Classic, but maybe not so with the Classic? How much time do you guys normally spend on the unit doing things besides loading wood into the firebox? And pretty much plan on a deep cleaning once a year on either type?

It is fairly easy to make a case for E-Classic, until you throw in the $5k price difference and it tips the scale right back in the middle somewhere. Instead of spinning my wheels any longer I thought I would see what others had to say. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice you guys might have.
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johnybcold

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Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2014, 04:45:36 PM »

I have a eclassic (in ma have no choice) nice to see you live in a live free state and have a choice, the eclassic uses less wood but I think I do more cleaning then the people with reg units, if you have tons of wood I might go for the reg unit
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mlappin

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Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2014, 10:19:43 PM »

I have a eclassic (in ma have no choice) nice to see you live in a live free state and have a choice, the eclassic uses less wood but I think I do more cleaning then the people with reg units, if you have tons of wood I might go for the reg unit

I've read and re-read numerous threads, I can't see the cleaning taking near as long as to cut the extra wood.

I get serious about cutting wood when I do, fill a five yard dump truck numerous times a day, try to only cut 2 or 3 times a winter. I'f I have to spend 20 minutes cleaning once a week compared to 45 minutes or an hour extra each week cutting wood, cleaning definitely wins out.
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Roger2561

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Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2014, 04:35:18 AM »

I have an e-classic 1400.  This will be my 4th season heating my home (3000sqft) and domestic hot-water.  The prior 2 seasons I used around 6 to 6 1/2 cord, last year due to the cold and long winter season I burned somewhere around 8 cord.  I kept the house at 70 degrees 24/7.  I empty the reaction chamber every week.  Every 2 weeks I clean the primary air holes, empty the reaction chamber, scrape the heat exchanger and rekindle the fire when I'm done.  It takes from 30 to 45 minutes to complete the chores.  That's not much time spent cleaning over a 2 week period IMO.  If you decide to go with the CB unit, keeping the primary air holes open is vitally important.  If you don't clean at least once every other week (some posters clean every week), they will plug, the fire will go out and you'll be outside at 1:30am in 15 degree temperatures cleaning them.  Don't ask how I know.   ::)  Also, there is a learning curve for you to know how your unit best operates in the conditions and the type of wood you burn.  Once you learn it, you'll wonder why you waited so longer to purchased it.  Good luck!  Roger
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mfrankm

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Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2014, 07:15:10 PM »

I have a eclassic (in ma have no choice) nice to see you live in a live free state and have a choice, the eclassic uses less wood but I think I do more cleaning then the people with reg units, if you have tons of wood I might go for the reg unit

I've read and re-read numerous threads, I can't see the cleaning taking near as long as to cut the extra wood.

I get serious about cutting wood when I do, fill a five yard dump truck numerous times a day, try to only cut 2 or 3 times a winter. I'f I have to spend 20 minutes cleaning once a week compared to 45 minutes or an hour extra each week cutting wood, cleaning definitely wins out.

Thank you both for your thoughts. I think you're right, cleaning time < time spent on extra wood.
My hangup on cleaning is possibly going out of town for a week or two during the winter. I'm kinda worried that without dedicated help that might be tough with either model....what do you guys do when you have to leave?

I hear you about getting as much wood as possible at a time. This is going to be quite a bit more wood than I'm used to processing but I'm looking forward to it.


Roger, thank you too for your insight. The learning curve is something I am looking forward to. I know it will feel really good to have this baby hummin right and to be heating the house and water so efficiently. It'll probably take me awhile, and I'll probably make some user errors in the process. Just hope I don't burn it up like a couple of pics I have seen. Yikes!

Do you use forced air to heat your home? I am trying to get an idea of how much wood I'm going to use for the radiant floor. My house is smaller too and painfully tight. Thinking these two things might bring the heat demand down.

So here's a question (for anybody): if my max demand is in the middle of the 1450's  BTU output range, does that mean I will actually burn less wood? Or will the unit burn about the same amount anyway and the pump will just run less or slower?

And would that answer be any different for the classic 4030?

Visiting the CB dealer tomorrow and hoping that will make it easier to make this decision. All of your help is most appreciated!
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Roger2561

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Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2014, 05:46:08 AM »

mfrankm - I have baseboard heat everywhere in my house, except the basement.  I have left the pipes uninsulated and the heat from the pipes keeps my basement at nearly 70 degrees.  I have a small wood shop in my basement and it's nice to work down there in just a short sleeved shirt in the winter.  Perhaps I wouldn't go through so much firewood if I did insulate them but I think I wouldn't see a significant savings.

You mentioned the 1450 - That thing has the removable corner panels in the firebox to aid in cleaning the primary air holes.  My E1400 does not have the removable panels.  I bought it the year before CB came out with the 1450.  I think that many CB E1400 users complained loud enough that CB had to do something to quiet it's customers complaints.

I cannot speak for the 4030 or any of the conventional units for all I have ever used are the E-classics.

Roger   
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CountryBoyJohn

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Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2014, 05:59:50 AM »

Mr. MFrankm, a couple thoughts.  First, the carbon footprint concern of yours is unnecessary.  Burning wood is considered a "carbon neutral" operation.  A tree contains a set amount of carbon upon the end of it's rooted life.  When a tree rots, it releases the same amount of carbon as if it is burned.  However, there are other particulate matters that are released during burning that are bad.  That's what the gasser units, and the EPA, reduce the release of.  But, the carbon-footprint is neutral.

Second, if regular out of town trips are normal, please consider your substitute stove filler.  I have a conventional stove and it's difficult to screw up loading it.  Yes, there are better ways of loading it I have found and utilize when I'm loading it.  But, if I'm out of town for a weekend, a neighbor comes by, tosses in some wood and leaves.  He's there 5 minutes.  There may be training involved when having a sub fill your stove in your absence. 

Good luck with your purchase!  I hope you get the right stove that works for you!
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Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 09:54:18 AM »

My CB classic has been in service for 15 years and I don't think to much of the new gasser's. Been looking at buying a new non gasser before the law goes into effect. But I don't know how long my old CB classic will last. It's a CL400 which has 400 gal. of water in it and cost $4500, 15 years ago. Now to replace it will cost $9000 and I don't know if it is worth the money to store it until my CB goes out. It could go for a couple of more years and I can't see spending that much money and have it standing around for who knows how long.
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slimjim

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Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2014, 04:36:14 PM »

A good sign of your unit being close on it's life span is to look for pitting in the steel especially in corners, ends and door jams, they are typically built with 1/4 inch cold rolled steel, a good oil burner company will have the ability to gauge the thickness of the steel as they regularly do it with the bottoms of oil tanks
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Big Wood

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Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2014, 03:59:00 PM »

If is was me i would look real close at the P&M BL 3344 as a replacement before 2015 put in while you can if you can afford it and sell your old boiler a a reasonable price to some that might be able to keep it going and get them going on wood just my opinion
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woodbutcher

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Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2014, 10:07:40 AM »

I have a old CL400 classic. 15 years and still going. Looking at a replacement but all I found out about the E-Classic is that thy don' keep the fire going. One guy told me he had to restart it 3-5 times daily in cold weather. I have heard more bad things about the new E-Classic than good. Too much electronics that don't hold up and a company that won't return your calls even after the unit is 3 years old. If you have a leak, after a couple of years, they call you and say it's your fault for burning garbage, even if you only tell them you burn wood. CB went from a great company one that is out to make as much money as they can. I'm looking at replacing my old CB with a P&M or maybe an Earth, P&M dealer is around 150 miles from me and the Earth is about 90 miles away. I have to see what I'm buying. 
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Big Wood

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Re: Classic or E-Classic?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2014, 06:57:13 PM »

Wood butcher if you Pm me you address i will see if someone near is running a PM 250 so you can go take a look simple to run and easy to clean i run a central 2300 at my store past 2 years I'll just say i make it work that is why I sell PM
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