Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: greasemonkoid on January 30, 2018, 04:22:21 PM

Title: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: greasemonkoid on January 30, 2018, 04:22:21 PM
I've been hard at work on my install and was pondering this. Don't think I've seen a single picture of anyone putting a roof or carport over their boiler. It seems like it would offer a lot as far as keeping electronics, wires, and insulation dry. Splash up from the ground already looks like it may be problematic in the long run. Also the advantage of having a covered area to maintain and reload the unit.

My NCB175 has no insulation on the belly, which seems bizarre, but I will be adding some. Now if that gets wet, then the purpose is null and void.

So it is apparent that finding a carport of such a small size is hard to come by, looks like I'll have to build it myself.

Just wondering what the general consensus was.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: juddspaintballs on January 30, 2018, 04:58:27 PM
My Heatmor sits on a concrete pad with bubble foil insulation between the boiler and concrete per the installation instructions.  No splashing up from the ground or worrying about insulation getting wet (silicone caulking between the concrete and boiler base). 

At my last house, I built a roof that covered my wood and half of the boiler so that the chimney wasn't under the roof but the loading door was.  It was nice.  I'll do the same here at some point, eventually. 

There is a guy down the road from me who put his whole boiler under a large roof and everything under the roof is concrete.  He ran his chimney through the roof and it's open on all sides with wood stacked in under there.  It's a nice setup on level ground with no trees around.   
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: Range91 on January 30, 2018, 05:49:52 PM
My setup
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: wreckit87 on January 30, 2018, 07:02:23 PM
Mine is in a 21x40 fully enclosed shed with concrete floor. Had it outside for 1 year and would rather burn gas than do that again. Your wet bottom ordeal would dry itself within short order if it were somehow going to get wet due to the heat from the firebox, but I agree that should be insulated and enclosed. The top of the boiler should keep everything but the splash from touching the bottom if it were to rain or whatever, which ought to be minimal anyhow
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: E Yoder on January 30, 2018, 07:09:47 PM
From a service and safety perspective I much prefer the unit outdoors but I understand the "in the dry" convenience.
I've seen too many units with firewood packed so tight you couldn't replace a pump or fan. I rewire/plumb a couple  burnt units per year due to spilled ashes inside a very dry shed. Cleaning a tall chimney plugged with creosote is a joy :)...
Interestingly, it seems to me that units outside are cleaner because fly ash washes off instead of sitting on the roof.
Anyway, I do realize we don't have the snow down here to deal with like some of you guys do further north and it would look different in different situations. Climate is a big factor. Not trying to be overly negative, just emphasizing indoor installations can introduce unexpected things sometimes.
The floor of the unit should be insulated... As was mentioned it should dry out quickly and cladding should be designed to shed water. Maybe some caulk in some cracks might help.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: schoppy on January 30, 2018, 08:13:19 PM
Here are a couple of pictures of my setup. I wouldn't do it any other way and my wife wouldn't fill it if it were totally outside. I had a cement dog pen that I put a metal garage structure over. You can't see both of them but I have 7 foot overhead doors on two sides. I am building firewood carriers so I will be able to bring in wood with my tractors front end loader. Only handling the wood once from splitter to carrier and tractor to shed.

My G200 is about half way in the building allowing me to operate the damper lever inside and ash lever for the tubes outside. I moved my red low temp warning light to an enclosed housing outside and it works great being able to see it from the house. I can store 5 to 6 full cords of wood in the building which I keep up on pallets, about half of my winter needs. 

I now have my exhaust vent fan exiting the building on the side to the left of the OWB which wasn't in the one picture at the time. With the exhaust fan there is no smoke issue when loading the stove having it inside.   


Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: greasemonkoid on January 31, 2018, 05:52:16 AM
Thanks for the pic, ideas, and experiences. After some hard searching it is evident that a small metal building can be had for slightly more than building materials alone to do a roof, so this is a strong option for me. Wood will not be stored in the same room, one spark lands in a pile of dry bark...
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: bowhunter79 on January 31, 2018, 07:37:19 AM
I have the same boiler as you and the guy who installed mine put some tin around the base to cover it up.  Looked pretty easy to do when he did it but he brought the pieces already pre-cut. 
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: Scratch on January 31, 2018, 08:05:54 AM
Here's a pic of my setup and I love it.
I bought one of those carport frames from Menards, then covered it with leftover steel I had from a pole barn build.  I put the front of the stove flush with the front wall of the carport and sealed all sides except for the rear so it's got a big opening for loading in the rear.  I use a heavy roll up tarp on the back to keep the rain, snow and wind out.  I have lights on the ceiling in there, and it's pretty much a pleasure to load it when I compare it to having to dig wood out from under a tarp like I use to do.
I still need to finish closing the front up, and trimming it out as you can see in the picture though.

I wouldn't want to put the stove even a little inside the "shed" but only because I'd rather use every square inch I can for wood storage.  The stove is made to be completely exposed to the weather, so I let it be.  I also wouldn't want to waste the money on a fully concrete slab in the shed since it'll just get covered with bark anyways.  I take a skid steer in from the back side when it's empty and back drag the bark out.  I'm surprised by how deep the bark is every time I do it.

I did pour a small 4X4 slab in front of the door so it wouldn't get muddy, but that was really for when I didn't have it covered.  I guess I'd still put that small slab in front of the door if I was going to cover it though.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: BoilerHouse on January 31, 2018, 08:35:15 AM
I covered mine with a building.

Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: schoppy on January 31, 2018, 09:57:59 PM
That is exactly why I like my cement floor Scratch (besides non-combustible). The bark is so easy to clean up as my wood is used and the pallets it was stacked on are taken out. I burn all the bark up besides as it is dry from being inside.

The way the G200 is laid out on the left side (as you face the loading door) the unit works best half way in an enclosure. The exhaust fan is a must for me as you would still get plenty of smoke inside even with the bypass damper.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: RSI on January 31, 2018, 11:01:10 PM
Schoppy, have you ever compared how much smoke is coming out the door when loading with the door to your shop open and closed? I have been wondering if that would make a big difference with the stove in a sealed building. Seems like with the door closed, especially with the exhaust hood blower running, it would be fighting the draft inducer on the stove.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: Bud Man on February 01, 2018, 06:06:34 PM
I put my woodburner under a 20x20 carport. Cut a hole in the roof for the chimney. I store my wood on hayracks and park one beside my furnace. This way my wood stays dry and is close by. When I empty a rack I pull it out and back in a new one. I will try to post some pics but I have to take some first. BTW, my carport has sides but no front or back and is on a cement slab from a building I tore down. Bark, wood trash, etc isn't a problem if you clean it up occasionally.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: schoppy on February 01, 2018, 09:37:13 PM
Yes I have RSI, I only turn on my exhaust fan when I see smoke coming out the loading door. My building is far from air tight (LOL) and I do usually leave my door partially open. Most of the time I do get smoke coming out especially by the time I am done filling the unit, I have to reset the bypass damper anyway. 
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: wreckit87 on February 02, 2018, 06:59:47 AM
Different stove obviously, with no bypass, but mine doesn't make a bit of difference with the door open or not. Building is also not very tight, but it'll fill the building with smoke in short order if there's any wood left to smolder when I open the door. When I had the smoke hood above, it did work fairly well at capturing most of it but the fan was small and overworked, therefore sh!t the bed in pretty short order so I'm waiting on ambition to build a new one with a bigger fan
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: KevinSantelik on February 05, 2018, 06:32:40 AM
Here's my shed I built to house the boiler.  16' x 24'  salt box style shed.

Open on 1 side, and closed the other 3.  I used 5/4 deck boards around the wood to create a corn crib effect, allowing air to circulate all the way around.  The 3rd bay is general outdoor storage.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: Farmer Rob on February 05, 2018, 09:07:37 AM
Here's my shed I built to house the boiler.  16' x 24'  salt box style shed.

Open on 1 side, and closed the other 3.  I used 5/4 deck boards around the wood to create a corn crib effect, allowing air to circulate all the way around.  The 3rd bay is general outdoor storage.
Nice shed but around here with one open side it be blown full of snow and you would have to shovel it first  not to mention your wood be covered with snow
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: mlappin on February 05, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
Here's my shed I built to house the boiler.  16' x 24'  salt box style shed.

Open on 1 side, and closed the other 3.  I used 5/4 deck boards around the wood to create a corn crib effect, allowing air to circulate all the way around.  The 3rd bay is general outdoor storage.
Nice shed but around here with one open side it be blown full of snow and you would have to shovel it first  not to mention your wood be covered with snow

Depends a lot on location, we have five hoop buildings for anything from storing hay to equipment, all run east to west with the east ends open, rarely get snow in em from the east.

Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: KevinSantelik on February 05, 2018, 10:26:25 AM
Its open to the south,  haven't had more than an inch or so of snow blown in.  It also helps that there is a really thick tree canopy where I'm at.  During the summer you can't see the house from an overhead perspective.  There's over a hundred oaks of 12" or better on the property. 

I also let it open to the possibility of adding roller doors to the front if I ever feel the need.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: jreimer on February 05, 2018, 11:49:30 AM
We get so many howling winds from all directions here that a shed without a roof and 4 walls is pointless.  It would pack full of snow everytime it would snow.  Fine for keeping rain off your wood stack in the summer, but extremely frustrating in the winter.  We get too much wind here on the prairies.  I put my boiler in my profile pic shed because of the brutal cold and winds.  Best. Investment. Ever.  Except I'm still working on a good solution for the loading smoke...
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: coolidge on February 05, 2018, 06:00:42 PM
I thought there was a thread on here about smoke hoods.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: jreimer on February 05, 2018, 06:09:53 PM
I know the solutions are out there, just need to stop being lazy and find the time to do it.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: greasemonkoid on February 05, 2018, 07:51:54 PM
I've commenced framing on the building. Adding 4 walls and a couple doors isn't much more, I've already got $700 in the tubing alone :o

Steel stock isn't cheap, not really a wood guy - especially for the application. So in the end I estimate $15 per sq/ft. A lot more that I first thought, but hopefully will be the brick crap house of smoke sheds.

Looks like I need to make provisions for smoke evac. while I'm at it...
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: schoppy on February 05, 2018, 10:14:45 PM
This works for me.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: schoppy on February 05, 2018, 10:15:51 PM
Another view
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: atvalaska on February 08, 2018, 10:03:34 AM
I have mine in a 9x12 walk in cooler....works great till it overheats and then the whole inside of the building is HOT...did I say HOT !
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: greasemonkoid on March 19, 2018, 06:50:26 PM
This has certainly accumulated a load of time and money, but after seeing the responses in this thread I had a vision, it turned out pretty close. Having never worked with metal roofing, I had to repent and was my mouth out with soap daily. It's been a windy month, that sure makes difficult work frustrating when doing it by yourself.  ...After a draining day at work, cold numb hands, darkness, you get the idea.



The building was an afterthought (hence the size), and a little close to the house, but there isn't a grain of combustible material in it aside from the paint. On paper the original design intent was to depanel the rear and slide it over enough to get the furnace out if necessary, well, I got lazy and welded the "X" brace on the end rather than bolting, but a sawzall will take care of that. And further, it's sturdy enough to load onto a rollback if need be. I imagine you could park a truck on the roof without any problem.

Now on to the electrical and get some lights in this thing...

(https://i.imgur.com/Uh4OEIil.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/SwMicwKl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oltkB7Ul.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/2BQ166bl.jpg)
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: E Yoder on March 19, 2018, 07:25:46 PM
 :post:

Have you fired up yet? Post some pictures, I want to see smoke.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: Buckeyenut on March 21, 2018, 06:18:05 PM
That thing is beautiful!!!
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: Roscoe on March 22, 2018, 11:12:01 PM
That thing is beautiful!!!
x2
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: Roscoe on March 22, 2018, 11:13:01 PM
Here's my shed I built to house the boiler.  16' x 24'  salt box style shed.

Open on 1 side, and closed the other 3.  I used 5/4 deck boards around the wood to create a corn crib effect, allowing air to circulate all the way around.  The 3rd bay is general outdoor storage.
Nice shed but around here with one open side it be blown full of snow and you would have to shovel it first  not to mention your wood be covered with snow

Where is "here"?
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: greasemonkoid on April 14, 2018, 11:47:06 PM
Approaching the final stages, just in time for summer. Looks like I'll be firing this up when most folks are shutting theirs down.


I noticed wasps were making their way in the boiler house, something had to be done. The foam spray makes a mess out of a clean building, but hopefully this will eliminate any surprises nesting in the ceiling.

Electrical work can be quite time consuming, but everything passed the smoke test.

(https://i.imgur.com/tkFn7aHl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/VaDhFaJl.jpg)


Belly pan for insulating the underside of the water jacket.

(https://i.imgur.com/K64WtsFl.jpg)


Yanked every wire in the unit out and revised it to a more practical setup (not that there was much in there anyway).

(https://i.imgur.com/ZN6aoesl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/6rmj2Rkl.jpg)


I'm paranoid so I figured a couple of cheap manual reset thermo-switches would be good insurance.
(https://i.imgur.com/p0R3CXcl.jpg)


Simple bracket that allows for slight contact pressure on the switches to the bulkhead

(https://i.imgur.com/xYNz5Cul.jpg)


Now on to finish the basement wiring and main control console in the living room.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: E Yoder on April 16, 2018, 06:18:14 AM
Looks great.
I like the "smoke test". When you let the smoke out it's a bad day.  :D

I see wires in the chimney, checking stack temps?
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: greasemonkoid on April 16, 2018, 03:57:41 PM
Thanks, it's been an interesting project.

I like to tinker with electronics.

 The two thermocouples in the stack - one feeds a PID controller running in manual mode, moreless a basic temp controller, it's purpose is to shut the combustion blower off and close the damper if flue temps are less than X degrees (probably 150-200*F?). The blower will not continue to run in the fire burns out. The other goes to a display in the living room so at a quick glance I can see what is going on. Also, should I want to tinker this controller can shut off the combustion blower if temps reach X degrees while leaving the damper open. Not sure if it will be of any benefit, but at the least, neat to see what's going on.

In the first pic, the PID controller and one-shot timer can be seen mounted in an enclosure. When it's time to reload push the black button, damper closes, blower shuts off, and the timer begins to count down from preset time. If needed, add more time by pushing button again, walk away when finished, it will turn itself back on.

Everything gets an override switch as we know how reliable electronics are.
Title: Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
Post by: greasemonkoid on April 28, 2018, 08:26:37 AM
Finished the control console. Looking back I wish I would have gotten one large metal box from somewhere,but they are not cheap. There's a lot of wires crammed into that box. The box on the right is are the DHW controls. Everything works as it should. If the boiler water temp drops below X temp the bell rings, it is on a cycling timer to ring a few seconds and pause for several minutes in case no one is home. If return temps on the primary loop drop below X temp, a buzzer activates, if it continues to drop further the secondary pump shuts off. For DHW only operation just flip a switch and the secondary pump only operates when the DHW pump runs, the controllers have a setting to prevent short cycling.

The PI controller (top right unit) outputs a 0-10V signal to the motor drive, that signal is proportional to measured room temp and rate of change. The motor drive converts that signal to frequency - or motor rpm, 10V being 100% of max rpm.

So after a runup test it looks like it will do a good job cruising at a quiet, low rpm and adjust automatically without sounding like a hurricane unless a door is left open. Hopefully the air temps won't be too high at low rpm, we'll see what happens.

Now on to plumbing...



(https://i.imgur.com/GtEu66pl.jpg)