Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Central Boiler => Topic started by: bjp on May 06, 2019, 09:54:30 AM

Title: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on May 06, 2019, 09:54:30 AM
Hi all, new poster here.

A week from today, I have a Central Boiler Classic Edge 750 Titanium HD arriving for install here in zone 4.  I'm looking for any tips from experienced owners here about things to watch out for or be aware of during install that may not be obvious.

I'm replacing a Sequoyah Paradise E3400 that met an untimely end, already hauled away.  The CB will be going on top of the slab the Sequoyah used and the cheap drain tile open-cell wrapped underground pex lines are coming out and getting replaced with thermopex.  The pex lines will come in to the existing plate heat exchanger, unless it looks clogged up, to transfer heat to the rest of the hydronics (oil boiler, under floor and in-slab radiant, baseboards, and indirect hot water).  Planning to fill it up with treatment immediately, then water, and fire it up and send in all water tests.

Any install-time gotchas out there?  For example, once I bought this house with the Sequoyah I read that it would have dumped far less creosote into the damper and draft inducer if it had been initially tilted up a couple inches on the rear side.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on May 08, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
Hi all, new poster here.

A week from today, I have a Central Boiler Classic Edge 750 Titanium HD arriving for install here in zone 4.  I'm looking for any tips from experienced owners here about things to watch out for or be aware of during install that may not be obvious.

I'm replacing a Sequoyah Paradise E3400 that met an untimely end, already hauled away.  The CB will be going on top of the slab the Sequoyah used and the cheap drain tile open-cell wrapped underground pex lines are coming out and getting replaced with thermopex.  The pex lines will come in to the existing plate heat exchanger, unless it looks clogged up, to transfer heat to the rest of the hydronics (oil boiler, under floor and in-slab radiant, baseboards, and indirect hot water).  Planning to fill it up with treatment immediately, then water, and fire it up and send in all water tests.

Any install-time gotchas out there?  For example, once I bought this house with the Sequoyah I read that it would have dumped far less creosote into the damper and draft inducer if it had been initially tilted up a couple inches on the rear side.

bjp - I do not have the Edge 750, I have the Edge 550 but I believe their operation is essentially the same.  You made the smart move by removing the crappy wrap stuff and replacing it with Thermopex.  I've had the same thermopex in the ground for the past 8 winters, I lose around 2 degrees over the 100 foot run.  I run mine hot, around 190/195 due to having baseboard heat in my house.  As for install, keep it level.  Also, the manual will show examples of how to install your OWB for your application.  Do yourself a huge favor and read the manual until you understand what 750 needs.  The most important thing I can pass along is to be sure your wood is dry, probably no more than 25% moisture.  Put enough wood in the firebox for a 12 hour period, it will operate more efficiently that way.  The one thing you'll absolutely love is the wifi connection, it's great being able to monitor it from your cell phone or computer, wherever there is a wifi connection.  boilerman has the titanium 750 HD also.  I haven't seen him on here in awhile, be patient he will and he'll be happy to answer any questions you have.  Roger     
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on May 09, 2019, 12:32:59 PM
bjp - I do not have the Edge 750, I have the Edge 550 but I believe their operation is essentially the same.  You made the smart move by removing the crappy wrap stuff and replacing it with Thermopex.  I've had the same thermopex in the ground for the past 8 winters, I lose around 2 degrees over the 100 foot run.  I run mine hot, around 190/195 due to having baseboard heat in my house.  As for install, keep it level.  Also, the manual will show examples of how to install your OWB for your application.  Do yourself a huge favor and read the manual until you understand what 750 needs.  The most important thing I can pass along is to be sure your wood is dry, probably no more than 25% moisture.  Put enough wood in the firebox for a 12 hour period, it will operate more efficiently that way.  The one thing you'll absolutely love is the wifi connection, it's great being able to monitor it from your cell phone or computer, wherever there is a wifi connection.  boilerman has the titanium 750 HD also.  I haven't seen him on here in awhile, be patient he will and he'll be happy to answer any questions you have.  Roger   

Thank you for the tips, Roger!  It was an easy choice to remove the old wrapped pipe given that it has been leaking groundwater into the basement for about 6 months. I surprisingly had hardly any heat loss with the old pipe, at least until the pipe and wrap waterlogged.  Then it was all over. I've been watching a ton of videos on the 750 and I'm loving the idea of loading the firebox for a 12hr burn - the Sequoyah manual said essentially to load it up packed full every single time, a huge difference from the 1/4 - 1/3rd full fireboxes I'm seeing in videos from CB. Access to clean all the gritty parts is going to be great, too, after what I had before.

I'm going to focus hard on keeping wood dry.  My woodshed is slowly collapsing to the point snow blows in through the walls so I'm going to have to get that dealt with.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on May 09, 2019, 05:31:23 PM
The one other thing I should have mentioned is, size does make a difference; the firewood pieces should not be too large.  I toss in pieces that are around 4 to 8 inches in diameter, smaller than 4 inches is okay but you don't want to go larger than 8 inches.  I meant to ask, does the Edge 750 have the titanium stainless steel firebox or is it the carbon steel firebox?  Roger 
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on May 10, 2019, 12:22:21 PM
The one other thing I should have mentioned is, size does make a difference; the firewood pieces should not be too large.  I toss in pieces that are around 4 to 8 inches in diameter, smaller than 4 inches is okay but you don't want to go larger than 8 inches.  I meant to ask, does the Edge 750 have the titanium stainless steel firebox or is it the carbon steel firebox?  Roger

I won't be 100% positive until Monday when it actually arrives, but all the paperwork says 'titanium HD' so this should be the titanium stainless firebox and the dealer will have a problem if it isn't.  I'm probably more interested in the access doors than the stainless firebox since I don't have much experience with them yet.

That's much more thoroughly split wood than I used with the Sequoyah.  It'll make loading go more easily vs hefting some of the monsters I burned in that thing.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on May 12, 2019, 10:19:51 AM
The smaller pieces allow for a quicker fire recovery after it's been idling for a bit plus it'll help cut down on the creosote build up.  I don't know if your old Sequoyah has it, but get familiar with the pulse feature on the 750.  If you're not familiar with it, it's used to help keep the coals from dieing during the idling time.  You can set the duration of how long it runs and how much time between pulses (max is 50 seconds).  I set my pulse to turn on for 50 seconds every 10 to 12 minutes.   
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on May 13, 2019, 02:37:56 PM
Arrived today and confirmed Edge 750 Titanium with the stainless firebox, manufactured January 2019. My excavator guy didn't show so a bit delayed on getting it hooked up, but wow this thing looks good. Lots of reading to do, I'll get to know the pulse since that will be a new feature for me here.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on October 18, 2019, 05:28:33 PM
Arrived today and confirmed Edge 750 Titanium with the stainless firebox, manufactured January 2019. My excavator guy didn't show so a bit delayed on getting it hooked up, but wow this thing looks good. Lots of reading to do, I'll get to know the pulse since that will be a new feature for me here.

I was answering another topic when I saw this one.  I am wondering how your Edge 750 HD is running for you, if you've put fire to it yet?

Roger 
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on October 22, 2019, 11:15:00 AM
Arrived today and confirmed Edge 750 Titanium with the stainless firebox, manufactured January 2019. My excavator guy didn't show so a bit delayed on getting it hooked up, but wow this thing looks good. Lots of reading to do, I'll get to know the pulse since that will be a new feature for me here.

I was answering another topic when I saw this one.  I am wondering how your Edge 750 HD is running for you, if you've put fire to it yet?

Roger

No fire just yet, other than the one on initial fill when it was first installed, which all went fine and appeared to be super efficient on fuel.  It's 60F outside right now so I don't think I'll be burning until the beginning of November.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on November 03, 2019, 09:01:29 AM
So I fired up the 750HD yesterday.  All went fine on the cold start, adding heat load, and the first few cycles, but the fire went out overnight after maybe 4 cycles.  My home internet was also down so I unfortunately can't refer back to the firestar graphs and logged data to say exactly what happened, but my feeling is operator error and too little of a coal bed.  Checked on it and I have a fair chunk of charred wood in there with hardly any ash remaining at the bottom of the firebox. 

I'm going to file this one as operator error.  I went too quickly from tiny kindling to mid-size logs and should have had a lot more coals in there before stepping up, and/or I need to decrease my idle pulse time from the 30 minutes where it is currently set.  Now just waiting for the rain to stop so I can pull the charred wood out without soaking it and re-light this thing.  While it was running, it was running great.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on November 03, 2019, 10:46:41 AM
So I fired up the 750HD yesterday.  All went fine on the cold start, adding heat load, and the first few cycles, but the fire went out overnight after maybe 4 cycles.  My home internet was also down so I unfortunately can't refer back to the firestar graphs and logged data to say exactly what happened, but my feeling is operator error and too little of a coal bed.  Checked on it and I have a fair chunk of charred wood in there with hardly any ash remaining at the bottom of the firebox. 

I'm going to file this one as operator error.  I went too quickly from tiny kindling to mid-size logs and should have had a lot more coals in there before stepping up, and/or I need to decrease my idle pulse time from the 30 minutes where it is currently set.  Now just waiting for the rain to stop so I can pull the charred wood out without soaking it and re-light this thing.  While it was running, it was running great.

bjp - I'd tend to lean to the lack of a coal bed too.  I suspect you're right regarding the pulse setting.  On my Classic Edge 550 HD I have it set to run for 50 seconds every 10 minutes.  I've never lost a fire with those settings.  Also, be sure to use smaller size pieces to get the coal bed built up.  It can take time to get it there.  Whenever I fire mine up for the season I always start early in the morning on a weekend so I have the day to monitor it with the wifi or a visual inspection.  Good luck.  Roger   
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on November 04, 2019, 08:18:49 AM
bjp - I'd tend to lean to the lack of a coal bed too.  I suspect you're right regarding the pulse setting.  On my Classic Edge 550 HD I have it set to run for 50 seconds every 10 minutes.  I've never lost a fire with those settings.  Also, be sure to use smaller size pieces to get the coal bed built up.  It can take time to get it there.  Whenever I fire mine up for the season I always start early in the morning on a weekend so I have the day to monitor it with the wifi or a visual inspection.  Good luck.  Roger   

Thanks Roger!  My second attempt has gone much better.  After pulling out the charred wood left from the cold start, I threw in some kindling, got that going, and tossed the charred wood back in.  That gave me 10 hours of clock time, 2 hours of burn time, before getting down to coals, with reaction chamber temps getting up as high as 1453F, though usually topping out around 1250F.  I just checked it again 12 hours after my first "regular" load, and still quite a bit of charred wood in there but it has been working great.  It's not really cold enough here yet (30-40F until later this week) for a big heat load but everything appears to be working perfectly. 2h21m of burn time over the last 12 hours, pulse every 15 minutes (which I now think I can probably bump back to 30min). 

Takes about 15 minutes to heat up from 175F to 185F when the low limit triggers, then overshoots by zero to five degrees or so depending on how much load is being drawn.  It seems to hold heat very well with no draw, I've been sitting at 189F for 45min since the last cycle ran.  I don't fully trust my temperature gauges on the indoor side of the hot line, but based on how well the boiler holds temps I am pretty confident I don't have any meaningful heat loss in the underground pipes (80' ThermoPEX run about 7-8' deep).

I did manage to screw myself a bit when I patched up the concrete slab under the boiler by creating a channel that funneled water to the ThermoPEX line - that stuff will transmit water into your house if you allow enough to pour onto it, but a dam of silicone caulk around it held up to 3.5" of rain over Halloween and I didn't have any more water coming in until I fired up the boiler, the PEX expanded, and squeezed out the remaining few mL. A bit of a scare there as I spent all of last winter with gallons pouring into my basement from the old drain tile the prior owner installed with the original boiler, but it's all bone dry now and looking great.

Granted I only have 24 hours working with this thing but I am loving it.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on December 18, 2019, 07:02:18 AM
Time for my first big cleaning. Reaction chamber temperatures have been dropping quite a bit.  I was getting 1400-1600F the first several weeks, then for a few weeks it was peaking around 1200F, and now it has been having trouble reaching even 800F.  Cleaning the reaction chamber ash out helped the first time, it hasn't been helping since.  I let the fire go out overnight and the heating oil kicked on to replace it.  Yesterday I tried splitting a bunch of wood smaller than I had been using and that helped it to get up to 950F or so, but still not where it should be.

I figure I will start with the primary and secondary elbows, but I suspect I am going to need to remove the primary air channels and check those out too.  Or I've just allowed too thick a coal/ash bed to build up after over-reacting the wrong direction to having it go out on me a couple times due to small loads in shoulder seasons.  Heat exchanger tubes still look great, just a little fly ash in the chimney tee, but I am definitely getting a bit of crusty creosote buildup in the firebox near the primary outlets.  Not enough to cover the holes, but I don't know what is inside those channels yet.

If any of you have seen this specific behavior before I'd be interested if you know what fixed it most directly.

Those wire harnesses attached to the stepper motors are locked in good, may try just cleaning it without disconnecting them (after cutting power at the breaker).  Cold days coming up tomorrow.


EDITED TO ADD: I think it was just too much ash and coal piled up in the firebox.  The weather went downhill faster than expected so I didn't have time to do all the maintenance I wanted, but the secondary charge tube looked fine and so did the elbows, I did not make it to the primary air channels.  But I have it humming along above 1000F now on wood that is basically kindling, so it seems like the firebox cleaning was what I needed.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on December 18, 2019, 04:59:30 PM
This is my cleaning schedule for my Titanium Classic Edge 550 HD;

Every 2 weeks I remove the ash build up from the reaction chamber.  I get maybe around 5 to 6 shovels full.  It's probably overkill to be cleaning it that often but I want to be sure the unit is not choking it.  I also take a few minutes to run the brush through the heat exchanger to get rid of any ash build up.  Takes a minute or 2 to brush it.  Be sure the coal isn't too deep either.  It needs a good bed around 3 to 4 inches deep but I wouldn't go much higher than that.  Make sure the primary air holes in the removable channels stay clear of creosote build up and ash too.  When my 550 was delivered a poker came with it that has a curved end to it, every 12 hours when I'm adding wood I use it to scrape the surface of the channels of anything that may have built up.  If your 750 is like my 550, there are air holes in the removable panel that's below the door opening inside the firebox.  The holes on my 550 are lower in this panel than those in the primary air channels along each side.  They can easily get blocked by too much coal.  Be sure they stay clear of coals, ash and creosote.  Don't be afraid to run the poker through the coal bed to even it out and loosen it up a bit.  Sometime maybe in mid February I'll do a complete cleaning.  Essentially I'll just remove the primary air channel to clear it of any creosote and then I'll remove the primary elbow, if any creosote is present I'll remove it.  I have never unplugged the harness from the stepper motors.  I hope these tips help a bit.  Roger       
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on December 19, 2019, 11:19:10 AM
Thank you Roger, this is a great guide!  I started out removing too much ash, I think, and had multiple cases of the fire going out overnight until I allowed more to accumulate.  I think I just went too far that direction and let it get too full.  I have definitely been running the hooked poker tool through the ash bed twice a day.  You are exactly right about the air holes in the panel just below the door, mine must have the same configuration as your 550 as they are indeed much lower than the ones on the side channels. I'm so impressed at how clean the heat exchangers in the rear have been staying.

No problems hitting 1300+F now after cleaning out the firebox.  I had misread the instructions and was thinking removing ash from there was the "complete firebox cleaning" procedure more reserved for the end of the season than as a during-use maintenance.  I won't make that mistake again.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on December 19, 2019, 04:40:22 PM
Thank you Roger, this is a great guide!  I started out removing too much ash, I think, and had multiple cases of the fire going out overnight until I allowed more to accumulate.  I think I just went too far that direction and let it get too full.  I have definitely been running the hooked poker tool through the ash bed twice a day.  You are exactly right about the air holes in the panel just below the door, mine must have the same configuration as your 550 as they are indeed much lower than the ones on the side channels. I'm so impressed at how clean the heat exchangers in the rear have been staying.

No problems hitting 1300+F now after cleaning out the firebox.  I had misread the instructions and was thinking removing ash from there was the "complete firebox cleaning" procedure more reserved for the end of the season than as a during-use maintenance.  I won't make that mistake again.

The one thing with mine, I've never had to remove any ash from the firebox, I simply put in a bit less wood the next time around and let it burn down a bit too.  It's something that takes quite a bit of trial and error.  If not enough wood is put in the firebox you run the risk of the fire going out; but if you put in too much wood, the ash gets too deep and plugs the holes.  This is my second year with the 550 and I'm still trying different things to see what works best for me.  The one thing I like right now is that it's been cold for the past couple of nights and today was quite cold with temps in the lower teens with a steady breeze out of the north.  It really makes the 550 work so I've now got a pretty good handle on how much wood to put in the firebox for a 12 hour period.  When the temps get down around zero like tonight with a 10 to 15Mph breeze, I put in 12 pieces of firewood ranging from 4 to 6 to 8 inches in diameter.  I should have a nice coal bed left at 6:00am when I put more in it for the next 12 hours.  Continued good luck with the 750.  And, Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas!  Roger 
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on December 20, 2019, 06:18:37 AM
Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you too!

So here's a new one that happened this morning.  I did not see it.  I loaded up a lot of wood last night since temps were around 0 with winds, pretty similar to what you described.  My wife woke up an hour before me, and when I got up she told me she thought she saw "for about five seconds, a LOT of black smoke, like the when the old boiler burned down" coming out of the vent cap.  She also says she saw smoke that appeared to be coming out the front, at the loading door.

I go out and look, no active steaming at the moment.  Check the Firestar XP logs, the max water temperature logged overnight was 196.6F (my setpoint is 190F, reaction chambers peaked up at 1710F around 5:00AM so it really managed to overshoot), so we reached the hottest water temperature and hottest reaction chamber temps I've seen since starting this 750. It was running, or had just finished, a brief pulse cycle at the time she noticed steam and/or smoke coming out of the vent.

My vent cap is askew.  I can see some very light slow evaporation of water out of the vent cap, very minor, nothing like if the water was boiling.  The sight gauge still shows the water level at the full line at 180F when I checked it.

So I'm not sure if I did partially boil the water at some point and the vent cap did its job, or what.  I've bumped my setpoint back down to 188F, and I probably won't add that much wood again for a while.  I don't get what could be exiting the vent that would be black, unless a downdraft from the pulse was just mixing with steam or there is some leftover shipping oil protectant up in the top of the water chamber that I managed to sizzle off.

I looked at the front door, everything looks fine, no evidence of a smoke leak during a burn or any smoke curling of the stickers or anything like that. I guess smoke overpressure inside could blow back through the air chamber where the fan is, as a possible source for smoke coming out the front.  I'll open that up soon and take a look.  It was perfectly clean two days ago so if it is sooty that would indicate something.

Edited again to add: Opened it up, firebox looks fine, still a little wood in it.  Air chamber looks fine, not sooty, nothing melted, no evidence of any backdraft through it.  Reaction chamber looks fine.  All door seals look fine with no apparent air leaks.  It's a mystery.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on December 20, 2019, 01:25:27 PM
Wow!  I can honestly say I've never reached 1700 reaction chamber temps.  I think the highest reading I've had is 1600.  As for the cap - Mine has been askew a few times with a little what looks like steam escaping from the vent.  I usually see it after it's cycled.  The way I see it is if all looks good, no seals compromised or showing signs of failure, the water is at the full mark in the site tube and everything appears to be operating as it should, I wouldn't be too worried.  My best guess is a possible back draft through the reaction chamber perhaps due to a downdraft situation may be the cause.  As long as she's working well, I wouldn't worry too much about it only keep an eye on things, just in case.  Roger
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on December 20, 2019, 02:45:15 PM
I really appreciate your comments, just hearing that your vent cap has moved a bit makes us both feel better.  I so wish I had been able to see what she saw, but it was so brief even going to grab me from another room, I wouldn't have caught it.  This was the first 1700F+ reaction chamber temp I've seen, I think the previous peak was around 1620F or so.  I'm already running low on my seasoned wood and using a bit more greener wood than I wanted to and I'd expect that to reduce temps in the reaction chamber, not increase them, but I probably added 25% more wood than I ever had before.  More wood than usual plus a really clean firebox I guess makes for some serious heat transfer down that mixing chamber.

If you ever find yourself in northwest Vermont and want a look at a 750, give me a ping!
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on December 20, 2019, 04:34:58 PM
Where are you located in VT?  I purchased a Honda Goldwing last summer (pre-owned but new to me) and I'm planning some rides.  Perhaps I can make a day trip up your way.  But, it's a bit on nippy side to that right now.  :)   Roger
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on December 20, 2019, 05:18:33 PM
St. Albans, up in the NW corner, just about 15 miles south of the Canadian border and about as far from upstate NY.  Cold, but the lake moderates it, and the last couple years the southern part of the state has had it worse than us on cold and snow pretty frequently.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on December 21, 2019, 02:18:48 AM
I've been to St. Albans before, beautiful area.  My younger brother's in-laws used to own a camp on Lake Champlain, we used to go to get away from everything and do a bit of fishing.  It's been approx 20 years since I last visited St. Albans. 
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: slimjim on December 21, 2019, 05:08:16 AM
I’ve been up that way many times Roger, it would be an awesome road trip on the bike in August but not so much right now.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on December 21, 2019, 09:08:43 AM
I’ve been up that way many times Roger, it would be an awesome road trip on the bike in August but not so much right now.

 :thumbup:  I don't mind ice skating but I rather not do it on my motorcycle...   :)
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: duramax on December 27, 2019, 01:08:45 PM
I have the 1450 so I am not sure how the 750 fire box is. I used to wait until I had a lower reaction chamber temp and let the fire go out overnight and clean it then. Now I go in the reaction chamber 3-4 weeks and shovel it out with the fire going. I kill the power for a few min but thats it. My heat exchanger tubes are  clean with just some fly ash  Like Roger I do a full clean  mid season. So far this year I have a 30 min pulse cycle that lasts 50 seconds. My heat exchanger tubes are  clean with just some fly ash 
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on December 27, 2019, 04:33:28 PM
I have the 1450 so I am not sure how the 750 fire box is. I used to wait until I had a lower reaction chamber temp and let the fire go out overnight and clean it then. Now I go in the reaction chamber 3-4 weeks and shovel it out with the fire going. I kill the power for a few min but thats it. My heat exchanger tubes are  clean with just some fly ash  Like Roger I do a full clean  mid season. So far this year I have a 30 min pulse cycle that lasts 50 seconds. My heat exchanger tubes are  clean with just some fly ash

duramax - Yesterday I decided to do a cleaning on the Edge 550, I was pleasantly surprised to find no creosote build up whatsoever.  I removed the primary air elbow and put it back, no creosote in there either.  I know of others who pulse for 50 sec every 30 minutes.  I wonder if that would work for me?  I pulse for 50 secs every 10 minutes, perhaps its a waste of firewood doing it so often.  I think I'll give it a try.  Another thing I tried yesterday is I used a paint scraper, the pull type to remove the creosote build up that I found in the corners and the mating surface on the door and that worked great!  It's much easier scraping the stuff than trying to push into it with a putty knife.  Roger
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: duramax on December 30, 2019, 11:17:12 AM
I get away with long idle time but I also split wood to small pieces. Like you Roger  I find that it reignites on a bead of coals allot quicker. I am sure I have some creosote built up in my primary tube so my next clean will be the 1st full shutdown cleaning this year .  For the creosote in the corners I use an ice chipper and the" Wonder Bar" that came with it.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on December 30, 2019, 12:55:05 PM
I get away with long idle time but I also split wood to small pieces. Like you Roger  I find that it reignites on a bead of coals allot quicker. I am sure I have some creosote built up in my primary tube so my next clean will be the 1st full shutdown cleaning this year .  For the creosote in the corners I use an ice chipper and the" Wonder Bar" that came with it.

I was getting bored the other day so I decided to do some reading of the operator's manual.  I learned that the floor pan is removable.  It will be much easier to clean it when it isn't in the firebox.  In the Spring I'm going to remove it and remove whatever there is in the space.  I'll then coat everything with new motor oil before putting it back.  Due to neck and lower back problems I'm unable to crane my neck around to look at the area inside the firebox to the left and right of the door opening.  My manual says to scrape these areas, but I can't due to my neck and back problems.  I'm thinking of asking one of my nephews if I pay him a few bucks to scrape it for me.  When you say you split the wood to small pieces, what is "small pieces" by your definition?  Roger   
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: duramax on January 05, 2020, 12:39:50 PM
I guess the average size would be like a 2-3. It is hard to remember that this fire is only going as needed, the old school me is so used to wood stoves that burn all the time.
Don't get me wrong I have some big pieces I toss in if we are going to have a cold night. Some of them are ends that I toss aside as I cut if they are to short.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on January 06, 2020, 06:10:11 AM
Well, time for my first attempt to see how good my dealer is.  My combustion air fan died overnight.  It was running when I loaded it at 1:00AM, wake up at 7:00AM and I see the boiler says it has been running for 5 hours, and is sitting at 160F.  I figure all my wood burned faster than I expected, but then I walk out there and it is quiet.  Opened up the airbox and no obvious issues there, the fan looks clean, hasn't melted, no wires are loose, airbox not full of soot.

So I have it sitting there, bypass open, for now, while I've got a message in to my dealer via the Central Boiler support site.  Unfortunately no spare fan onhand and I guess this could be the firestar controller itself, rather than the fan.

EDIT: They'll be here Thursday morning.  A few more days than I'd hoped for for service, and Wed night will be pretty cold.  But I've got heating oil for backup.  Looks like ordering a spare fan would be $190 or so after shipping based on my first few checks so I think I'll let warranty play out here and see if they can hook me up.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on January 06, 2020, 05:06:53 PM
Well, time for my first attempt to see how good my dealer is.  My combustion air fan died overnight.  It was running when I loaded it at 1:00AM, wake up at 7:00AM and I see the boiler says it has been running for 5 hours, and is sitting at 160F.  I figure all my wood burned faster than I expected, but then I walk out there and it is quiet.  Opened up the airbox and no obvious issues there, the fan looks clean, hasn't melted, no wires are loose, airbox not full of soot.

So I have it sitting there, bypass open, for now, while I've got a message in to my dealer via the Central Boiler support site.  Unfortunately no spare fan onhand and I guess this could be the firestar controller itself, rather than the fan.

EDIT: They'll be here Thursday morning.  A few more days than I'd hoped for for service, and Wed night will be pretty cold.  But I've got heating oil for backup.  Looks like ordering a spare fan would be $190 or so after shipping based on my first few checks so I think I'll let warranty play out here and see if they can hook me up.

Oh man, that sucks.  I hope it's only the fan not the controller.  If it is the controller, it's an easy unit to change.  Don't ask me how I know.  Is the digital display lit up on the controller?  Does your manual offer any troubleshooting options to try while you're waiting for the dealer to show up?  Also, I know with my Edge 550 I can go to the CB site where they have an online troubleshooting guide.  It helped me a bunch when the power supply on my controller fried due to 3 power surges from a fallen tree.  All you have to do is input the serial number of your 750 in the box and they have many options from which you can pick the one that closest resembles the trouble you're having.  It will walk you through how to narrow down the problem and how to rectify it/them.  Good luck.  I hope you are heating your home sooner rather than later.  Roger     
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on January 07, 2020, 08:20:37 AM
Oh man, that sucks.  I hope it's only the fan not the controller.  If it is the controller, it's an easy unit to change.  Don't ask me how I know.  Is the digital display lit up on the controller?  Does your manual offer any troubleshooting options to try while you're waiting for the dealer to show up?  Also, I know with my Edge 550 I can go to the CB site where they have an online troubleshooting guide.  It helped me a bunch when the power supply on my controller fried due to 3 power surges from a fallen tree.  All you have to do is input the serial number of your 750 in the box and they have many options from which you can pick the one that closest resembles the trouble you're having.  It will walk you through how to narrow down the problem and how to rectify it/them.  Good luck.  I hope you are heating your home sooner rather than later.  Roger   

The model-specific troubleshooting guide has been really helpful, but not many options to follow for the fan after checking to make sure the blades turn freely.  The only other thing left for me to do is pull it off and check it with the multimeter, but I can't get a replacement part here any faster than the dealer can so it'll probably just frustrate me more to find out it's just a simple capacitor I don't have around to replace.

The controller appears to be fine, the display lights up, it is still reporting up to firestar online, the LEDs light up white and red as the stepper motors move the air intakes and I can see they are actually moving.  It could be the electrical in the controller just for the part that feeds that fan, but we'll see.  The dealer should have replacements for both parts on hand, and better to get to know them now than during the middle of a -20F run of weeks.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: RSI on January 07, 2020, 02:52:31 PM
If you have a volt meter, check for voltage at the fan motor. If it is there then it is a motor problem.
Did you try spinning the fan wheel and see if it starts? If the capacitor is bad, they will usually run if started manually. If that works then check to see if the connections on the capacitor are ok, especially if it is a type that has the capacitor mounted on the outside of the motor housing.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: boilerman on January 07, 2020, 09:59:24 PM
Does your FireStar fan indicator light show the fan is on? If so, then unplug the fan and use a multimeter in the harness connector to see if power is present. If you have 120V present make sure you are getting good fan wire connections in connector. If so you likely have a bad fan motor. I would expect fan would be covered under warranty if your furnace is less than a year old like other electrial components. Should be easy fix for your dealer. Let us know what you find out on Thursday.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on January 08, 2020, 10:19:36 AM
Does your FireStar fan indicator light show the fan is on? If so, then unplug the fan and use a multimeter in the harness connector to see if power is present. If you have 120V present make sure you are getting good fan wire connections in connector. If so you likely have a bad fan motor. I would expect fan would be covered under warranty if your furnace is less than a year old like other electrial components. Should be easy fix for your dealer. Let us know what you find out on Thursday.

Thanks both boilerman and RSI!  I removed the harness and checked it out with the volt meter, and I see 120.4V coming out of the controller going to the wire harness when it tries to power the fan so the controller looks good, at least.  I also tried kickstarting the fan with a can of compressed air to see if it could power, but not start it, but no luck there.  Just a brief spin from the air then nothing.  So I think I am pretty confident something is shot on the fan.

I'll post an update tomorrow.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on January 09, 2020, 09:29:23 AM
I am back in business.  It was the fan. 

Once the old fan was removed, a quick look inside the case showed a clearly visibly broken wire in the motor winding, just dangling loose.  Worked fine for almost three months but must have had some kind of weak point. Excellent service from my dealer! He arrived with a large air compressor in tow as his next job after mine was a water blowout on another customer's 15yr old boiler so that the leaky firebox can be welded, so they sure seem like a full service dealer.  Such a huge difference from where I was before with the Sequoyah and no support due to an out of business manufacturer.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on January 10, 2020, 03:33:52 AM
Glad to hear you're back in business and that your dealer is the real deal.  Lets hope the failure is just a one time occurrence.  Roger
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on January 22, 2020, 10:37:36 AM
Glad to see the forum back up!

Maybe a week or so ago, I decided it was time to take a look at the primary air channels.  Air flow felt reduced when I hit the 'ignition air' button and stick my hand in my firebox - plenty of air from the front, not so much from the side air channels.  And that's where I started to have a bit of a problem.

While opening the front primary air channel, the one just below the door, I managed to snap the carriage bolt in the middle.  The left and right acorn nuts came off just fine, the middle one snapped the bolt.  So I have a piece to replace.  No big deal, it does not seem to be reducing burn performance.

But for the side air channels - how do you get the metal air channel pieces off?  I was able to remove the acorn nuts and washers on both sides, but I simply could not budge the channels themselves.  For the front air channel, I shoved my fingers in the air holes and was able to wiggle it loose eventually, is it just the same kind of procedure for the side ones?  Maybe I screwed up by putting the front air channel back on before trying to remove the side ones, maybe it needs to be out of the way for them to be removed.  I have a feeling I have a minor blockage in there.  I think I can make it through the rest of the season and just deal with it in the spring, but I may still need some tips on how to get those channels removed.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Pointblank on January 22, 2020, 03:16:20 PM
I've used a large screwdriver to pry out the side channels. I start at the back of the stove and work it out toward the front. Might have to tap it in with a hammer to get it started. Just be careful not to bend or deform them. Once you get it started they come right out.
As far as the acorn nuts, if they give you trouble, try heating them up with a small torch. Snapped a few off myself at first. Creosote seems to work its way in them and a propane or map gas torch loosens them right up. Use some high temp anti-seize when you reassemble and they'll come out easier next time.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on January 22, 2020, 04:12:56 PM
I've used a large screwdriver to pry out the side channels. I start at the back of the stove and work it out toward the front. Might have to tap it in with a hammer to get it started. Just be careful not to bend or deform them. Once you get it started they come right out.
As far as the acorn nuts, if they give you trouble, try heating them up with a small torch. Snapped a few off myself at first. Creosote seems to work its way in them and a propane or map gas torch loosens them right up. Use some high temp anti-seize when you reassemble and they'll come out easier next time.

Thanks, Pointblank!  They're only really held in place by the washers and nuts, right?  So when prying them out, has it mattered whether you work from the top of the channel or the bottom, or just do both the whole way until it pops free?

I think the middle acorn nut was cross threaded on mine at delivery, it turned pretty easily about 3 rotations and then locked right up on me.  Next time I'll give it some heat if it starts to resist, and thanks for the tip on anti-seize, that makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Pointblank on January 22, 2020, 06:34:24 PM
Ya, once the acorn nuts are off, its just a friction fit. Yours is newer so might be a bit different, but with mine, there's a small bevel on the top side of the channel. I take a large screwdriver and push/tap it in and start there. I start at the back and work the top and bottom of the channel loose toward the front. They extend into the grove/channel of the stove an inch or so and creosote will somewhat cement them in, but they come out pretty easy if you keep working the edges and breaking the creosote loose.
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: Roger2561 on January 23, 2020, 03:02:58 AM
I had the same problem with mine regarding snapped carriage bolts.  My local orange box store had stainless steel carriage bolts, the acorn nuts and fender washers.  I think I spent all of $15.00 for everything, now if they break I have plenty on hand to replace them.  With regards to the removal of the air channels; what I do now is every time I put wood in it, I take the poker and run it along the groove at the bottom of of where channel meets the low part of the firebox.  It helps to keep any creosote buildup from hardening, I then take a large screwdriver and pry the channel out from the bottom instead of using the holes.  They come out much easier for me that way.   
Title: Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
Post by: bjp on January 23, 2020, 05:43:31 AM
Thank you both again so much!

Pointblank, your description sounds identical to mine, so I bet that'll work.  Roger, I've been doing exactly that with the poker/scraper at the low part of the channel too, after reading something on the support site about creosote drain holes in the channels, so hopefully that'll put me in a good place to get it done this spring.  I'll pick up a handful of replacement bolts/etc too.  These are extreme enough temperatures I'm sure I can count on more than a few sheared bolts going forward.