Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: Scott7m on February 06, 2013, 10:25:45 AM

Title: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 06, 2013, 10:25:45 AM
This is part of a letter that I received today...


The new NSPS draft is anticipated to be released by March 2013
A 90-day public comment  period will follow
The new NSPS is expected to be signed into law by Fall 2013
The new qualifying emissions level is expected to start at .15 lb/mm Btu heat output
Incentives are being discussed for models with particulate emissions within .06 lb/mm Btu
 
What does this boil down to? We have about two more years to sell traditional outdoor wood boilers with particulate emissions above .15 lb/mm Btu.  As of today there are only 11 models combined from all manufacturers that burn this clean.  See for yourself at the EPA’s Burn Wise website:
http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html (http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html)

What are your thoughts?

Has govt lost it's mind?

Do you fear your govt or does your govt fear you?

I know what I think, and if I said everything I think, well, I wouldn't be able to post on here from the new home lol
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 06, 2013, 10:28:08 AM
For clarification, the NSPS is the EPA's "New Source Performance Standard"
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: victor6deep on February 06, 2013, 02:02:29 PM
Im gonna make my own propane tank stove and put a Romney sticker on it.  :post:
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 06, 2013, 02:28:02 PM
Im gonna make my own propane tank stove and put a Romney sticker on it.  :post:

Ahh, he may have been different but it's not likely

In my opinion he woulda had the same agenda pushed by the same folks behind the curtains.

I have little faith in our system
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Yooper on February 06, 2013, 03:25:25 PM
Would this prevent someone from either building their own stove completely from scratch?
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: baldwin racing on February 06, 2013, 03:34:48 PM
For clarification, the NSPS is the EPA's "New Source Performance Standard"

sounds like the goverment wants more control because we are heating with wood for free and the oil companies are not making any money, so the gov are not getting any of there bonus cuts....lol
kelly
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: jnicol6600 on February 06, 2013, 03:54:35 PM
Wow.  Epa should be abolished.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 06, 2013, 04:10:43 PM
Would this prevent someone from either building their own stove completely from scratch?

No, but the govt knows no bounds anymore, who's to say that after this they don't eventually pass legislation where you can't even burn am appliance that isn't approved?  This is just to stop there production

Where does it stop? 
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: victor6deep on February 06, 2013, 04:12:00 PM
It is a very sad world anymore.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 06, 2013, 04:18:20 PM
I don't think this is anything to do with oil and gas companies because owb arent even a blip on the radar.

This is coming from the most miserable people on our planet, there miserable, they sit around and try to think of something to raise hell about in order to feel good about themselves, all for our "environment"

Our govt is just dumb enough to entertain such nuts.

The free market and the laws of nature would cure most problems this country faces, which was basically how the govt was originally set up.  Now the govt is a slave to global banks, mainly the federal reserve.  For those of you who don't know, the federal reserve bank is a private entity, they just tell the govt what to do because they've been granted power they never should have had.  Our country was never intended to play police officer of the world?  But we do.  The list Of things our govt does that it should have never done is endless and will eventually lead to it's demise
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: victor6deep on February 06, 2013, 04:34:32 PM
Reminds me of a guy who said I have " another one of those obnoxious smoke dragons". I said to him I don't run my stove cool therefore it hardly smokes. He didn't know what to say which shows how people like that never look into these things they just ASSume.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 06, 2013, 04:44:24 PM
It's like idiots who think if you place a pistol grip on a rifle it makes it an "assault weapon"

Or, the idiots who say no one would actually deer hunt with a caliber as large as a .223, they don't even realize a .223 is a very small caliber

They simply spout stuff based off of propaganda or looks because they actually know nothing about anything
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Roger2561 on February 06, 2013, 05:03:03 PM
Most of these people fall under the category - just when I thought that some are crazy, they then open their mouths and remove all doubt.  These folks (gov) who want to control everything, think everyone is too stupid to know any better and they are there to save us.  Man, are we ever in trouble.  Roger 
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 06, 2013, 05:23:21 PM
I have to ask, where do we draw the line?  When will people finally revolt?  I don't see a revolt going down without bloodshed but something has to give
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: victor6deep on February 06, 2013, 05:48:22 PM
I have to ask, where do we draw the line?  When will people finally revolt?  I don't see a revolt going down without bloodshed but something has to give

I'd say a couple years the people will revolt.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: MattyNH on February 06, 2013, 06:05:59 PM
Well you fine until you have to replace your boiler..It just sucks for you the dealer and the manufactures that builds them..Puts the small guy out like anything else..Im not a big fan of the epa. Burning wood is natural..Outdoor wood boilers are always on the hot seat due to abusive burners, wood boilers with the short stacks and smokes the neighbor out..Just google it ..Far as the government..Yeah its def out of control spending.. We wont have SSI like our parents do or will..Epa is all worried about us burning wood..But nothing is done about high prices of gas at the pump and the high price of the  oil/propane bill hanging on the door knob...Its always the small guy out..The rich keep on getting richer and the poor keep on getting poorer..Something needs to be done for sure!
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: AirForcePOL on February 06, 2013, 06:41:40 PM
I have to ask, where do we draw the line?  When will people finally revolt?  I don't see a revolt going down without bloodshed but something has to give

I'd say a couple years the people will revolt.

I honestly don't think it will be that long especially if they keep it up.  They keep taking from the American people.  People are unemployed, loosing their cars, homes, families etc.  Now they want to take our guns.  A man with nothin ain't got nothin to lose and those will be the ones who start the revolution.  So much for a government of the people.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 06, 2013, 06:42:10 PM
If they can even ponder the thoughts of conviscating weapons then stoves would be an easy one for them..

I think though, that before all this takes full effect there is gonna be some crazy things take place
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 06, 2013, 06:46:11 PM
I have to ask, where do we draw the line?  When will people finally revolt?  I don't see a revolt going down without bloodshed but something has to give

I'd say a couple years the people will revolt.

I honestly don't think it will be that long especially if they keep it up.  They keep taking from the American people.  People are unemployed, loosing their cars, homes, families etc.  Now they want to take our guns.  A man with nothin ain't got nothin to lose and those will be the ones who start the revolution.  So much for a government of the people.


Yea but at the same time "the pope of hope" Aka Obama's approval ratings keep going up, 61% approval rating last I looked.  However that don't mean squat, when it hits the fan, it won't be expected. 

Look at the market for example, near record highs, yet we know the economy ain't right.  When the dollar plummets, we could literally see process triple over night.  It's not been all that long ago that folks in Russia were burning there money to stay warm.  Saw a show tonight about Russia hosting the winter olympics next year, right next to a 50billion dollar complex was people living with out heat or any modern day convienences.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: AirForcePOL on February 06, 2013, 06:51:51 PM
I agree Scott.  It really stresses me out just thinking about it. 

Anyway,
I was frustrated to read your thread.  My hardy is still goin good but eventually it will need replaced.  I really don't want a gasser nor do I want the price tag that goes along with one.  Wood has been used for thousands of years for heat.  What's the issue?
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: ijon on February 07, 2013, 03:15:14 AM
I agree Scott.  It really stresses me out just thinking about it. 

Anyway,
I was frustrated to read your thread.  My hardy is still goin good but eventually it will need replaced.  I really don't want a gasser nor do I want the price tag that goes along with one.  Wood has been used for thousands of years for heat.  What's the issue?
The goverment don't want us to be free anymore. They want complete control.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: oldchenowth on February 07, 2013, 05:51:28 AM
I find it ironic that the govt is all behind the Arab spring and freeing oppressed people, yet that is exactly what they are trying to do here at home.  Then when we have had enough, we will be shot as traitors and they will be in disbelief that it could actually happen here.  IDIOTS!   Bunch of city dwellers must know what rural living is like because they have seen a barn on tv once, so they must know what is best for us.

OWB OWNERS UNITE!
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Bull on February 07, 2013, 06:16:08 AM
Just be prepared, when the dollar falls and I am afraid it will, we will be on our own for a while so be prepared.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: johnybcold on February 07, 2013, 07:35:59 AM
The days of revolt are gone, in Ma we are taxed on everything, have strict gun control and we just keep going, the founding fathers would not think much of us
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: rick w on February 07, 2013, 07:51:20 AM
goodmorning YA JUST CANT FIX STUPID
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: d conover on February 07, 2013, 11:48:55 AM
The government can launch a space shuttle that puts thousands of pounds of pollutants in a few seconds, but they are worried about my boiler??  Or my cows burping????


I wonder how much pollution obummers trips to Hawaii contributed?  I bet more than my boiler puts out overnight.


Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: skorpyd on February 07, 2013, 05:16:28 PM
Oh, you "extremists", don't you know we are "fundamentally changing Amerika" comrades.  Were from the government and were here to help you.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: loneryder on February 07, 2013, 05:58:12 PM
It's like idiots who think if you place a pistol grip on a rifle it makes it an "assault weapon"

Or, the idiots who say no one would actually deer hunt with a caliber as large as a .223, they don't even realize a .223 is a very small caliber

They simply spout stuff based off of propaganda or looks because they actually know nothing about anything

You left out ammo "clips".  The only ammo "clip" ever used was on the M1 rifle in WWII.  It was a wire clip that held the cartridges together to make loading easier.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: loneryder on February 07, 2013, 06:03:05 PM
You guys are just clinging to your guns, religion and wood boilers! O0

so am I!
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: MattyNH on February 07, 2013, 07:42:29 PM
they r not taking no guns from anyone think about it. I spent four years of my life serving this country in the usmc.And one of the first things they told me is mr m 16 is my best friend no matter what u do  take care of him and he will take care of you and the only time they better see us apart is after they have to pull it out of my cold stiff hands. well thats all i got to say is marines r trained very good and they trained me.they said it not me and there r alot more like me ask your budy u giving your weapon up and see what he says another thing who r they going to send to get them the cops thats like sending a kid to take the belt from a mma fighter the navy not the airforce not the army nope and a marine sure in the       and taking a weapon from a us citizen and i in sure u he will not take or even think about taking one from a former marine. so lol but some wood in the wood stove get your gun go hunting shoot some targets. enjoy both and laugh at the idiots that really think they can take anything from us. there least worrys would b north korea if they did try. just thank and pray for the ones that never made it back to b able to even have a say so in it all. what did they die for then nothin. is a its a simple fix if u kill with a gun in a crime u die with the gun after the grime on the 5 oclock news. its not mean its called justice just my two cents in it
If i could, Id shake your hand.. and anyone else that has served..Thank you for your service...I hear what your saying!
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 07, 2013, 07:50:08 PM
I hear what your saying and appreciate your service.   :thumbup:

There have many millions and millions think it would never happen to them though, hitler, Stalin, Lenin, mao, the list goes on. 

I often thought that the military would never attack it's own, but they have in history.  Also one would have to consider the growing roll of Interpol and u.n troops.  If the u.s troops wouldn't do it, I sm not above thinking that the powers that be might get un troops to do the dirty work, trust me I know this would be all out war, and I half way expect that at some point. 

All we can do is respect history and know that it has happened before, and this country is on the exact path others have went down.


Thanks once again for your service!!!!

Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: ijon on February 08, 2013, 03:04:58 AM
We can thank the old Hillary for that.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: walkerdogman85 on February 08, 2013, 05:15:09 AM
I know it's out of our control but wild fires and volcanos put of more than our boilers do! Also what good will it do us to be so green if no other place on earth is? China is mass producing coal fired power plants at a rate of one per week and no scrubbers or scr! So yeah respect the place we live but bu I believe we all do. I really upsets me as I work at a coal power plant and hear this stuff a lot and it pertains to our wood boilers also its hard to believe that this can happen, I will burn wood until they come take it from me ! It's hard to say this Ll and make sense but I am just ranting in my head !
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: skorpyd on February 08, 2013, 05:31:28 AM
It's amazing how much of our freedom that has already been taken, and how easy they take more one bite at a time.

The EPA is probably the most leftist bureaucracy we have.

By the way thanks to all that have served our country in the military.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Sdh1218 on February 11, 2013, 02:10:40 PM
If we let them take the small things how long before they take the big things. As said before were are steadily loosing our freedoms one at a time.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: 12valve on February 17, 2013, 08:03:02 AM
It makes me mad that Central Boiler is in bed with them.  That was the reason I didn't get a CB.  The local dealer told me how they were working with EPA so they could get rid of most of there competition.  What a hypocritical sellot joke they are.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: boilerman on February 17, 2013, 02:37:28 PM
That sounds more like competitor nonsense rumors and talk than truth.
My dealer buddy says Central Boiler has spent more money in legal fees. lobbiests and costs than all the competitor companies put together just to keep EPA from shutting down the OWF business all together already. If it was up to EPA, nobody would be building or selling OWF's. CB has had to fight to even get an emmision standard that is availble for any manufacture to meet (Phase 2 Standard:  9 states have already adopted this standard). Now as Scott says EPA want to cut that emmision standard in half! CB is not the enemy here, the OWF industry is fortunate that they are spending their money to keep any business in the industry doors still open. I would seriously doubt CB wants to eliminate "all" their competition. If that were to happen, EPA could justify themselves by stating "who cares, we are shutting down only one company by banning OWF's". Keep your beef with EPA and not point fingers at the company that is fighting for our rights to have the option to burn an OWF. Their standard Classic model dominated OWF's sales with it's great features and reputation, I'm sure they could have saved millions if EPA just left the industry alone. The overall emissions caused by all the OWF's in operation in our country is nothing more than the tiniest spec of dust in the universe IMO....
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: J Cooch on February 17, 2013, 05:11:49 PM
How many large fuel producers are also lobbying the EPA to shut down OWB's? Losses in fuel sales is huge, not to mention fuel tax losses.   Money talks
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 17, 2013, 05:33:57 PM
Folks, our opponents aren't the energy companies...  I think people like to think "I'm sticking it to tue oil company" when they buy one of these but in reality, I don't think we are a blip on there radar


All of us combined wouldn't amount to a drop in a barrel, our opponents arent oil companies or coal companies, it's a bunch of idiots with no brain who think they were sent to save us and planet earth from our own stupidity..

Put it into perspective, if an oil company was thst concerned with a bit of oil they could slide gm some money under the table to make all there vehicles get 1/10 of a mpg less and it would be far more beneficial to them than our community.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: J Cooch on February 17, 2013, 09:21:57 PM
Be serious. These corporations are our enemy(or employer). We pay taxes so they won't have to. The energy industry owns our politicians and you the consumer. This world is dependant. How many live completely off grid? Not enough, and thats what they count on.  I'm sticking it to my propane company and keeping it in my wallet while skipping the fuel taxes. When they want money they just raise the price like the last five years profit level shows. We all need to do more to escape their grasp.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 17, 2013, 09:33:48 PM
Well, whatever fuels your fire

Why does the govt have grants and tax credits available for solar all the time?  Canada will even pay half on them sometimes.  Seems to me like that should pee energy companies off.

Also, there is even tax credits still available on wood furnaces and pellet stoves, just a couple years ago that was $1500 a pop for anyone purchasing an owb.  I think if big oil as folks call it was that worried about wood furnaces that it would have never even been mentioned as far as a tax credit goes.

It's just amazing for me to think there is 320 million people in this country and the owb crowd thinks that big oil or energy companies are terrified by them, how many outdoor wood furnaces are currently in use would you say?  Out of 320 million people!  Not even a fraction of 1%

Think about nationwide how many solar panels there are, many times more than those who burn wood.

Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: yoderheating on February 18, 2013, 05:42:15 AM
 When Mitt Romney was in town last year I was asked to join a round table discussion with him about business issues. I set right next to one of the top guys from Appalachian Power, the second largest electricity company in our state. I had to explain to him what a owb was, he had no clue. During our talk he actually said he would send people my way if they had trouble with high bills. I don't think he was worried at all about losing a few residential customers.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: willieG on February 18, 2013, 05:55:46 AM
the only business i think would have any concern is the local fuel provider. He may notice on his end of year profit that he missed selling one or two "past customers" 2 or 3 grand each
but i doubt if the refinery notices
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: Scott7m on February 18, 2013, 06:07:58 AM
the only business i think would have any concern is the local fuel provider. He may notice on his end of year profit that he missed selling one or two "past customers" 2 or 3 grand each
but i doubt if the refinery notices

Your all exactly right, as far as the industry even knowing we exist,
They don't hardly, if it was some mom and pop propane company they might miss you like Marty said but as to think your sticking it to someone and they notice, that's just a feel good point on your end of the deal. 

Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: J Cooch on February 18, 2013, 08:45:42 AM
 I will agree they don't care if we buy less, because No matter how efficient we become big energy just raises the price. They produce less and charge more, keeping profit right where they want it. The EPA has us meeting exhaust emission requirements, but our cars even hybrids still do not get close to the mileage they could get, and who receives the carbon credits for all those efficient autos? We get a crappy little tax credit. A stand alone solar system takes close to fifteen years to pay for itself and most cannot afford it. A majority of the solar farms are being built by big energy to replace costly power plants. Imagine free energy from the sun,clean energy credits, Low labor costs, and no costly infrastructure. It's no wonder why they have so much money to lobby with.
Title: Re: The EPA is starting to pound there drum again
Post by: twain on February 18, 2013, 04:53:31 PM
those hands making all these BS regs dont have enough dag bern chores is what i think! BS.