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Author Topic: Earth vs. Shaver?  (Read 17907 times)

hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Earth vs. Shaver?
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2014, 08:04:07 PM »

Woodbutcher, the fireboxes need to be tough enough to handle the large chunks of wood that is thrown into them, the heating and cooling of the metal as well as the inevitable corrosion which will take place and slowly eat away at the steel. So that being said the boiler will need to be a bit thicker, say 1/4 inch but not to thick since the steel has only so much time to absorb the hot gasses before they escape from the boiler being pulled away through the flue. The heat does not sit in the boiler until it is absorbed into the steel, it is actively being pulled from the boiler by the pull of the flue. I believe you need to think of all of this in a different view. Your looking at it as using the fire jacket to actually be a heat sink when in reality you need the water in the jacket to be the heat sink. You need to transfer that heat energy as easily and quickly as possible(because if you don't the heat will be pulled out of the flue before it is exchanged). A thinner steel is going to transfer that heat energy faster than a steel that is thicker.
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mlappin

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Re: Earth vs. Shaver?
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2014, 09:27:44 PM »

Used 5/16 plate in my first one, seemed like a nice compromise between 1/4" and 3/8" plate. If it's of a poor design anything will rot out no matter the thickness.
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woodbutcher

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Re: Earth vs. Shaver?
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2014, 10:09:33 AM »

hondaracer2oo4,
I think you missed the point totally, your boiler don't cool down, it is always hot in the firebox, and the steel in the firebox is at that temp. When you pull heat out of the water the less water means the whole system will cool down faster if you have a thin firebox and the boiler will have to be started up with the draft. The more water in the boiler the longer it takes to draw down the temp. I've had my boiler for 15 years and it has 400 gals. of water in it. I only need to fill it once a day. I'm heating over 5,000 sq.ft. with the shop which never gets below 55 degrees at night where I set it. The house is 75 degrees night and day. The hot coals in the firebox keep the steel hot all the time. I know of owb owners that have thin steel and a small amount of water and they are running all the time, I know this because I can tell when a boiler is running by looking at the smoke coming out or it is shut down, being up to the temp. 
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Earth vs. Shaver?
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2014, 05:51:08 AM »

The steel is not the temperature of the firebox, it is close to the temperature of the water. It exchanges the heat from the firebox and heats the water. If it was the temperature of the firebox it could be upwards of 1000 degrees when you had a hot fire going, or in the case of a gasser when the heat is leaving the heat exchangers 2000 degrees. But you know that steel would be melting if that was the case. The steel does not 'store' the heat energy. It is merely there to exchange the heat.
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slimjim

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Re: Earth vs. Shaver?
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2014, 06:54:34 AM »

  Woodbutcher, you are not making much sense!
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woodbutcher

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Re: Earth vs. Shaver?
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2014, 09:26:24 AM »

Slimjim, Sorry I don't make any sense to you or anybody out there. Like I said, I've had my boiler for 15 years. Has anyone even had one close to that many years. If the fire chamber is the temp. of the hot coals than the steel has to be close to that temp. If you water reads 175 degrees the fire box has to be 175. The hot coals can keep the water at that temp. For and example run your boiler in the late spring when the outside temp. is 50 degrees. See how often the boiler will start up. The hot coals keep the firebox hot and the water as well. I keep my boiler running a lot longer than I should just to heat the DHW. The boiler may only kick in once all day. Everybody has there opinion on boilers and that is a good thing, without owning an owb there could be no discussions. My friend has the same boiler as I do, only a newer model. I have a water to air exchanger and he has a water to water exchanger. He runs his at 195 degrees and his house is at best 70 degrees. I know there are a lot of factors to consider but all in all it is up to the buyer of an owb that has to make his own decision I do like the design of the P&M but can't find anyone around me that has one. Still looking at the Earth for a replacement.     
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slimjim

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Re: Earth vs. Shaver?
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2014, 10:22:25 AM »

15 years is great, I have a friend and neighbor with almost 30 on his Hardy, the thing to remember is that technology has changed a great deal in the past 10 years, I think for the better, I have a 12 year old Wood Doctor that has treated me wonderfully but that does not make it the most efficient stove on the market for sure. Personally I like the Wood Chip boiler out of everything that I have run.
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Earth vs. Shaver?
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2014, 09:37:14 PM »

My Hardy is 23 years old. Let me put this to you one last time and see if you can understand what I am trying to say. Have you ever tried to solder a pipe that still has water in it? What happens?
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mlappin

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Re: Earth vs. Shaver?
« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2014, 07:30:06 PM »

Slimjim, Sorry I don't make any sense to you or anybody out there. Like I said, I've had my boiler for 15 years. Has anyone even had one close to that many years.

Yep, first one I built will be going on 15 years, used 5/16, still going strong.

The firebox is no the temp of the fire, if it was there never be any creosote buildup on the steel. Creosote forms on a cool surface. All your gassers use a secondary chamber of some sort as steel surrounded by water stays too cool and quenches the flame so gasification can't happen reliably.

Even the stainless models wouldn't last long if the steel was at fire temp instead of closer to water temp.
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Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana
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