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Author Topic: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.  (Read 10700 times)

slimjim

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2017, 06:57:22 AM »

Here are a few pics of the air damper we speak of from the 78 year old man who bought from me 2 weeks ago
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Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

E Yoder

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2017, 07:44:37 AM »

Boy.... that sure appears like the divider between top and bottom air is still not sealed completely. So far we have not had a single call back or complaint since the divider was sealed.
 
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2017, 07:48:03 AM »

Food for thought on the 185 max setting on the heatmaster....

When I called to ask them why I coukdnt boost the over heat cut out above 190 they told me it had nothing to do with the logo controller, they control the 190 with a snap disc. So they said this is where it starts to get gray. They told me that of course I could put in a higher snap disc BUT the unit is UL listed for indoor use and part of the UL testing included that the boiler would pop off at 190. So if I were to modify that I would be modding the boiler and it would lose its certification. I ended up leaving it alone but they said they couldn't do anything to stop me from putting a different snap disc in it and they personally weren't concerned about the boiler running at higher temps. 
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slimjim

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2017, 07:56:52 AM »

Yup I would agree BUT it was done exactly as described in the HeatMasterss upgrade kit, I'm sure you aren't saying that I might send out a unit on purpose that wasn't upgraded Eldon? The airbox should be here this weekend for me to cut open and examine closely, I'll be happy to post pics if you like, I do think we are on the right path but moving pretty darn slow! Hmm that's weird on the UL Honda, it seems funny that all the steel boilers that I have ever dealt with have had UL and some for indoor use and they can be run at higher temps? Perhaps they should put that addendum in the manual so that we could be sure it wouldn't effect the warranty?
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slimjim

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2017, 08:08:34 AM »

Eldon, remember something, I didn't build it, if you would like then you can pass a message on to your folks up there that if they are ready to fix the issue instead of just talking about it then I'll be ready to work with them but I'm tired of excuses and misleading information
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E Yoder

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2017, 08:17:01 AM »

I wasn't insinuating anything, just trying to troubleshoot and help a customer. I'm just relating what worked for us.
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slimjim

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2017, 08:26:16 AM »

Well then if we are speaking then I will say that the retro does seem to work better on the 200 than it does on the 400, this is why I want to cut it open this weekend, I would have thought they would have already done that though because I already sent back 1-200 and 1-400 when I first noticed the issue but haven't heard a word since!
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2017, 08:27:27 AM »

I think it is one of those issues that actually needing to pump temps above 185 is few and far between and it is easier to just not have a dialogue about it in the manual stating something to the effect " if your system needs hotter than temps than the factory components allow based on our UL testing specs than the disc can be replaced with a higher temp not to exceed ????  But the owner shall be aware that the unit will no longer be UL certified and shall not be installed indoors as well as clearance to combustibles also changes to blah blah blah. I think that som people think they need higher temps coming out of their forced hot air systems but in reality the system is actually much more comfortable with register temps near the 110s so you don't get those hot and cold spikes. They don't understand that even though they run 110 register temp for 10 mins that is the same btus delivered as running 130 degrees for 7 mins.
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slimjim

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2017, 08:34:16 AM »

Yuo are right Honda however we have run into instances where an old  home or historic building requires over 180 degree water temps to deliver the needed BTUs with the available baseboard and none can be added so on the low side at 160 there is a real issue
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2017, 08:54:32 AM »

Yes i am sure that you have run into some instances where they are running tight differentials on the old systems because of poor design. I would think though that going by a case by case basis with the factory with these systems and doing some sort of written addendum with the factory for each case could protect both parties involved and keep everyone happy.

On  another note I know that most people don't want to spend $10k plus for a boiler and need to do more work but that is exactly what they need to invest in. Whether or not that is putting in low temp baseboard which can operate the same btu output is traditional baseboard but down to temps as low as the 130s or it is some simple air sealing techniques to tighten the structure up or adding insulation. You could expand into another market slim with doing energy audits for homes. Most of those guys just have some simple equipment like a blower door for air loss calcs and a thermal imager.
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slimjim

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2017, 09:03:47 AM »

Thanks Honda, I'm actually looking into that.
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mlappin

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2017, 09:34:10 AM »

I  figured it had something to do both with UL specs as tested and the snap disc.

I did figure at first I wanted to bump the tempature up to at least 185 when I installed the G200 so the water would get hotter in the shop, however with the longer run times vs the G400 water is getting hotter anyways. I’m gonna leave it alone, only thing I could see on wanting hotter water is if we ever have a real winter here again and looking at least a weeks worth of polar vortex temps then it might be nice to have hotter water.
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RSI

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2017, 07:43:29 PM »

Yuo are right Honda however we have run into instances where an old  home or historic building requires over 180 degree water temps to deliver the needed BTUs with the available baseboard and none can be added so on the low side at 160 there is a real issue
If you need a higher average temp, I would look into adding a storage tank. If you double the capacity and cut the differential in half, you should end up with the same idle and burn times.
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slimjim

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2017, 12:39:58 AM »

Yes I can see what you are saying RSI but that would be a hard sell for a person to invest in an OUTDOOR wood boiler and then have to add storage when the same can be done with a higher temp boiler.
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slimjim

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Re: Thermal imaging, Polar versus Heatmaster.
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2017, 01:12:51 AM »

Well I think that you will all be happy to know that again this forum seems to have sparked a fire where it needed to be sparked, I heard from the old man with the 400 that is having the damper issue, he says that he spoke with Ryan yesterday afternoon and that HeatMasterss is taking full responsibility for his air box issue and will be sending him a new air box right away, I truly am sorry that it had to come to this but my customers will always come before corporate profits, the issues that corporate and I personally have I will attempt to do offline, Ryan, I know you are watching, this is your olive branch!
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