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Author Topic: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype  (Read 20312 times)

hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2016, 02:01:49 PM »

Thanks RSI, this is the only gasser that I have ever burned but I know I am spoiled when it comes to ease of use.
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Bender

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2016, 05:28:26 PM »

Quote
Yes, Primary is the firebox and secondary is below the nozzles. I may have read your earlier replies wrong. I though you said that when you opened the door it would start burning good down through the nozzles and then would die off a little while after closing the door.

Yes, that's exactly what happens. I open the main firebox door and get a roiling fire going, close the door and the secondary burn in the reaction chamber is strong for a few minutes and then dies out.  The main firebox fire keeps going after that, it just doesn't get up to temp nearly as fast as it would if the secondary burn was going strong.

I just finished restricting the primary air tubes and installing the variable speed control for the fan. Initial testing seems about the same as before, but a less violent burn in the reaction chamber.

Tomorrow, I'll feed it the best dry, split wood I can find and load it like hondaracer suggested and see what that brings.

Thanks.
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RSI

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2016, 05:41:31 PM »

What happens if you restrict the secondary air way down and open up the primary air all the way? I would think that you should be getting flames pushed down the nozzles. Are the nozzles usually covered over completely or somewhat open?

How long is your chimney? Do you know if there is a minimum the MFG requires? Maybe some draft to help pull would help.
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2016, 07:13:31 PM »

You restricted the primary air down and you still get a roaring fire in the firebox? What's your coal bed like?
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Bender

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2016, 08:49:41 PM »

What happens if you restrict the secondary air way down and open up the primary air all the way? I would think that you should be getting flames pushed down the nozzles. Are the nozzles usually covered over completely or somewhat open?

How long is your chimney? Do you know if there is a minimum the MFG requires? Maybe some draft to help pull would help.

I've tried restricting the secondary completely and having it just slightly open and it didn't seem to make too much of a difference. The nozzles generally keep themselves open, but I am noticing bridging now that I know what I'm looking for.

Chimney length is 3ft. I think P&M calls for 4ft. A bit more draft certainly wouldn't hurt though.
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Bender

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2016, 08:54:49 PM »

You restricted the primary air down and you still get a roaring fire in the firebox? What's your coal bed like?

After today's changes I'll have to keep an eye on it for a few days to know the full effect. I've turned the blower down by approximately 50% now. Got home tonight and the coal bed was good, but it had bridged 6-8" above the nozzle, so no secondary burn going on. As soon as I broke down the bridge and added some more dry split wood, gasification started right away and kept going for 10+ minutes while I watched it (and hopefully beyond that). Progress!! :)
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2016, 03:50:43 AM »

Progress is good! It looks like bridging may be the thing that's killing your secondary. That could either be from to much primary air( I think) or wood is to high in moisture content causing you to kill the coal bed over the nozzle without being able to replenish it because the wood can't break down quick enough.
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2016, 06:56:34 PM »

Any difference today?
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Bender

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2016, 11:35:50 AM »

Any difference today?

Had some time to play with it this morning. Adding the variable speed control helped a lot - at least for testing. Started with a good bed of coals and loaded split dry cedar on top of the nozzle, packed tight. Added some heavier (probably higher moisture) split birch on top of that. Played with the fan and the only way I could get a flame in the reaction chamber was if I slowed the fan to about 1/5 of top speed. The flame was weak at that point, but consistent. Turning the fan up would make the flame go out, but the sound of rushing air was stronger.  I let it run with the weak flame for about an hour and it lost about 3 degrees overall. Turned the fan back up to 3/4 speed and checked again in an hour and it had gained 6.

With the fan blowing hard, I am gaining temp, but slowly. Could it be that it's burning the wood gases in the main firebox and not in the reaction chamber? It also makes me wonder if the nozzle design on this prototype is somehow too free flowing. The newer models all seem to have more restricted designs.  I have some 1/4" steel plate that I might cut a slit in and lay it over the existing nozzle as a test.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 11:37:53 AM by Bender »
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2016, 12:01:34 PM »

Well I would say that te answer to the burning of the wood gas in the primary firebox or not is answered by looking at the smoke coming from the chimney. If you are creating the gas but the secondary flame is to strong than you should look like your running a steam engine, blowing big clouds of smoke. If you don't have much smoke I think you are burning it in the firebox. When you open the firebox door what is going on in there? I'm talking about as soon as you open the door, after 10 seconds or so you will get a Right side up fire probably. Also I'm not sure what cedar is considered as far as hard wood or soft wood? Also I'm not sure about its ability to make coals.
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2016, 12:08:41 PM »

I just looked up cedar. It is the lowest btu content if any wood and it's a softwood. I think the majority of your issues lie with this. Get some quality seasoned hardwood, maple or something and give that a try. I think that may get you on track.
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Bender

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2016, 02:37:56 PM »

I just looked up cedar. It is the lowest btu content if any wood and it's a softwood. I think the majority of your issues lie with this. Get some quality seasoned hardwood, maple or something and give that a try. I think that may get you on track.

Hmmm... I've burned cedar in the fireplace for years and it worked well, but a fireplace and a gasser (I'm finding out) are two different beasts. :)  I have a fair amount of red and white oak that I have drying for next year. I'm almost through the cedar supply for this year and then it'll be mostly elm and some birch for the remainder of this season.

Generally when I open the firebox, I'll so a whole lot of smoke for the first 10-20 seconds. I see quite a lot of smoke coming out of the stack most of the time too. I notice when it's running well that the amount of smoke coming out of the stack is reduced and it dissipates into the air quicker.
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coolidge

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2016, 02:40:27 PM »

Try the nozzle idea also, remove the one you have, cut a half inch wide slot about 6 " long. As mentioned, put hardwood in first, cedar on top, if it's calling for heat, the higher moisture content wood will gasify.
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coolidge

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2016, 02:45:52 PM »

If you get that much smoke there s a restriction somewhere. Do you have turbulators?  Can you take a video of reaction chamber? 
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Bender

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Re: Year 2 with an early Optimizer 250 prototype
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2016, 03:01:44 PM »

If you get that much smoke there s a restriction somewhere. Do you have turbulators?  Can you take a video of reaction chamber?

Thanks Coolidge. No turbulators in this one. I generally clean the vertical and horizontal pipes with a wire brush once a week. I've noticed that the first row of horizontal tubes get finely burned ash as you'd expect, but the upper set are getting more creosote than ash.  I'll take a short video of the reaction chamber in a day or two and it may take a few days before I get to the nozzle change, but I'll give that a shot too.
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