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Author Topic: Brand new and searching what to do!  (Read 4743 times)

A.O.

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Brand new and searching what to do!
« on: February 23, 2018, 11:48:50 AM »

Hi, This is my first post here, bear with me.

I am looking to get a Outdoor wood burning furnace, I know absolutely nothing about these other than they have to be cheaper to run than my propane "gas pack"!! 

So I live out in the country in a house built in 1954 in South Carolina, I've done a lot of work on the place, put a foot of insulation in the attic, and had the entire exterior of the house bricked partially to eliminate the drafts and such, but mostly for looks I guess. I have what they call a gas pack for a furnace on the outside of the house which is what I'm thinking is a perfect set up for an outside wood burner. I have no shortage of wood to burn, in fact just ordered a small sawmill so I'll have lots of cutoff too boot! And I can set this thing within 10 feet of that gaspack (closer even if I have to.

I just am iunsure how to go about this or where to start even. Do I get a boiler type, or a hot air ducted unit. Or does it matter? I talked to my local HVAC guy and he wasnt much help so I figured this would be a good place to learn.

Here is that gas pack furnace heat and air




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wreckit87

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2018, 09:41:42 AM »

Welcome to the page! First things first, you'll want to talk to your insurance company about it. Most companies (in my area anyway) require an outdoor unit to be 50+ feet from any insured structure. They may have grace for a brick building, but you'll definitely need enough flue to get above the roof line if you're that close to the house. As for the forced air units, there are a few out there that are happy with them but there is typically quite a bit of loss out the stack from the ones I've seen. Do you know if you are allowed a coal stove in SC? As of 1-1-16, the US federal government banned any wood furnace not EPA certified, which limits you to gasification units or coal furnaces. Some states will not allow coal furnaces altogether though. The non-stoker coal furnaces still burn wood just fine, very well in fact, but technically it is illegal to do so (if the unit was made after 1-1-16) and the MFG is supposed to void your warranty if you are caught burning wood in a coal unit. I would push toward a boiler, but which type of boiler is up to you and your local regulations. A simple underground lineset and an air to water heat exchanger in your existing ductwork with a pump circulating water would be a relatively easy retrofit and still maintain the gas pack as backup. With the boiler you can also heat your domestic water as long as the boiler is burning, using the same pump and just adding another exchanger for the water heater. Hot water heat is among the most versatile in the industry
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E Yoder

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2018, 11:50:30 AM »

As wreckit said tieing in with a hot water wood boiler is very simple and straightforward, a hot air unit is not as easy to regulate or connect. But obviously I live in the wood boiler world and don't know the hot air units as well..
I'd get it at least 30' away for fire safety and no chimney extension headaches. I'd like to see pictures of the supply duct under the house. Can usually put a coil in right after it comes to the wall before any flex ducts come off. Dimensions would be great.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 12:50:37 PM by E Yoder »
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E Yoder

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2018, 11:55:41 AM »

I've never heard anything about SC having any state regs on outdoor furnaces, just the EPA regs like anywhere.
. And welcome AO, glad to have you.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 12:47:37 PM by E Yoder »
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A.O.

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2018, 03:02:54 PM »

Thanks Guys... Pretty lax about regs around here but I'll look into it.

So the "coal" units burn wood good yes? i'm a little short of coal trees around here. ;-)

So how do these things work. say its cold out and the thermostat calls for heat.. how does the thermostat relay that message to the outdoor furnace??? or does it even work that way? (remember I am BRAND new to this thing ,sorry)

And if the EPA banned wood furnaces.. why are there so any out there? Which leads me to the next question.. which ones should I look at that are decent and wont break the bank?

And I was leaning to the boiler type, but just doing my research..
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029 &362 Stihl
301 Echo
no name splitter
Woodmaxx SM26e Sawmill
Kubota loader
Harley Road Glide
100 acres of woods!  ;-)

shepherd boy

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2018, 05:28:05 PM »

 Should be no problem to hook to that gas pack with a outdoor boiler. 30' is usually what I hear from a insurance company, and you should for your own benefit as well. Just looked at a place today that had a outdoor furnace in a shed, burned it down with 13 cord of wood and got their detached garage as well. We will be installing a new unit where the old one was only this one is not going inside the proposed woodshed. Lucky it was 70' from the house or it would have gotten the house as well.
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mlappin

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2018, 07:38:07 PM »



So how do these things work. say its cold out and the thermostat calls for heat.. how does the thermostat relay that message to the outdoor furnace??? or does it even work that way? (remember I am BRAND new to this thing ,sorry)

And if the EPA banned wood furnaces.. why are there so any out there? Which leads me to the next question.. which ones should I look at that are decent and wont break the bank?



The boiler  could care less what the house is doing, when the water temp drops to the preset point it starts and heats the water to the hi set point.

The EPA didn’t ban wood furnaces, only those that can’t meet emission standards.
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wreckit87

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2018, 06:50:03 AM »

Thanks Guys... Pretty lax about regs around here but I'll look into it.

So the "coal" units burn wood good yes? i'm a little short of coal trees around here. ;-)

So how do these things work. say its cold out and the thermostat calls for heat.. how does the thermostat relay that message to the outdoor furnace??? or does it even work that way? (remember I am BRAND new to this thing ,sorry)

And if the EPA banned wood furnaces.. why are there so any out there? Which leads me to the next question.. which ones should I look at that are decent and wont break the bank?

And I was leaning to the boiler type, but just doing my research..

No coal trees in my neck of the woods either. There are a lot of folks out there burning wood in the coal stoves with great results; myself included. The higher efficiency ones will have grates in the floor of the firebox and a fan in the back that blow draft air up from underneath to stoke the fire, whether coal or wood. There is an aquastat in the unit that keeps the water temperature within the stove at a set temp, usually 170 to 190 depending on your needs. For example mine is set to 175 with a 10 degree differential. When the water gets down to 165, it will kick the fan on and feed air to the fire until the water reaches 175, then shut the fan down and close the damper until the temp falls back to 165. Most run a pump at the boiler circulating hot water through the underground lines, through the exchanger(s) in the house, and back to the boiler 24/7. As for inside the house, personally I like using a second 2 wire thermostat right next to your existing one that only turns on your furnace's blower fan on a call for heat, instead of starting the burner and the whole process- thus simply blowing air across the exchanger within your ductwork and distributing heat taken from that hot water coil. Some utilize an aquastat inside and wire it to the existing thermostat (don't ask me how, I'm not a wiring kinda guy) so that it only runs the fan as above, unless incoming water temp from the boiler drops below maybe 130, or wherever you set it, at which point the gas would resume as normal until the water temp comes back up. The boiler is completely independent from any house controls and just runs when it needs to.

The EPA stoves are all gasification stoves, which are higher efficiency than the regular coal stoves. They're a bit more costly, and some have a little extra maintenance, but the lower wood consumption is a payoff for some. I'm not going to chime in about ups and downs of those as I have very limited experience in the gasification world. Now coal burners on the other hand, there are 3 top contenders that stand out in my mind. Heatmaster C series, Portage and Main BL series, and Crown Royal MP series all have a 3 pass heat exchanger to capture as much heat as possible before exiting the flue therefore are quite efficient in comparison to some others, and all 3 are made with shaker grates in the floor and an ash pan/drawer underneath for easy ash removal. Crown Royal has a slightly less efficient 2 pass stove, the RS series, which was the predecessor to the MP and is a contender with a bit smaller price tag. I just installed one yesterday actually, and spoke to the guy just now and he's in love. Heatmor CSS has a quality unit as well, with a bit of a different design in terms of exchangers but has proven to be pretty efficient as well and can be ordered with shaker grates as well, but the ash removal is done with an auger instead of a drawer and can get a little messy. I myself burn a Heatmaster C series and love it, would not change a thing. The MP series from Crown has piqued my interest however and I think I may switch before next season and try out one of those. Hopefully someone can chime in about gasification if that is something that interests you; there are many happy customers with gassers out there burning half the wood they would have with a regular old wood hog. Conventional stoves like Earth, Central, Ozark, Woodmaster etc with the flat floor and no exchangers tend to be quite inefficient as they're essentially just a tank in a tank design with a direct flue exit so a lot of heat is lost out the stack, but the price can be less than a multipass too. There are a lot of variables in a decision like this ranging from initial investment to how much wood you can/want to reasonably process every year. Customer support is a huge deal as well, and a dealer who is local and stands behind the product is worth the stove's weight in gold. Buying from some clown on the internet that disappears as soon as they have your money may save you a few bucks upfront, but if there is trouble you're often on your own. Just something to consider
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A.O.

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2018, 07:26:40 AM »

Thanks again.. I'm learning..

Wreckit.. I went to all three of those web sites and NONE have any pricing, how annoying.. closest dealer was 158 miles.
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029 &362 Stihl
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A.O.

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2018, 07:31:56 AM »

AND.....  Can I heat my pool with these things?? How do you do that?
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029 &362 Stihl
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Kubota loader
Harley Road Glide
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wreckit87

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2018, 11:24:23 AM »

They don't post pricing because generally the manufacturers don't sell the stoves direct, that is up to the dealers. Which dealer is closest to you? It'd be worth a call to see what they recommend and ask some pricing. Yes, you can heat a pool with a properly sized boiler by simply adding a large heat exchanger on a second loop with another pump, similar to the one on your domestic water in the house. Basically circulate boiler water through said exchanger (they are separated into halves) and circulate pool water through the other half. This will transfer some heat from the boiler water into the pool water without the 2 systems ever touching each other
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shepherd boy

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2018, 12:42:06 PM »

 A couple things would be helpful in determining cost, is to know the size of a system you need. How big is your house and size of that gas pack.  Model # of the gas pack?
   Also in what part of South Carolina you are at.The western hill country is colder climate than southeast coast.
   Do you have neighbors that smoke could be a problem?
   
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E Yoder

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2018, 04:51:13 AM »

I've burned Heatmaster conventional updraft since 07, worked very well,  then switched in 2013 to a G and now a GS model. Love them. No more maintenance than a grated unit (less actually), extremely efficient, no smoke around the house.
While a grated unit is a good furnace, I'm hooked on downdrafting, a downdrafter is a great way to go in my opinion if it's a well designed unit. Just load, shake the turbulator handle and walk away.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 07:25:30 AM by E Yoder »
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A.O.

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2018, 05:24:41 AM »

A couple things would be helpful in determining cost, is to know the size of a system you need. How big is your house and size of that gas pack.  Model # of the gas pack?
   Also in what part of South Carolina you are at.The western hill country is colder climate than southeast coast.
   Do you have neighbors that smoke could be a problem?
 

My house is about 2000 square feet, the gas pack is a 3 ton unit. I'm in "north central" SC About an hr NE of Columbia and an hr South of Charlotte.

I'm in the country on 100 ac, closest neighbor is over 1/4 mile away.. And I don't care if my neighbors smoke!
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029 &362 Stihl
301 Echo
no name splitter
Woodmaxx SM26e Sawmill
Kubota loader
Harley Road Glide
100 acres of woods!  ;-)

shepherd boy

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Re: Brand new and searching what to do!
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2018, 06:12:08 AM »

  A small unit should do good for you. I sent you a PM on Heatmaster, some one else may want to give you pricing on other brands.
   
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