Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Regulations => Topic started by: AirForcePOL on February 08, 2015, 07:56:22 PM
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I'm surprised I haven't seen any posts about the new regulations yet. The EPA published the new standards on the 3rd. They aren't as strict as they had proposed. It looks like all companies have less than 60 days left to build non qualified furnaces. All remaining units must be sold by December 31 2015. All phase 2 boilers meet the first phase (5 years) I believe. Check it out here: http://www2.epa.gov/residential-wood-heaters/fact-sheet-summary-requirements-wood-fired-hydronic-heaters (http://www2.epa.gov/residential-wood-heaters/fact-sheet-summary-requirements-wood-fired-hydronic-heaters)
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What is a phase 2 boiler? So the standard boiler companies have 60 days to build out the rest of inventory, and they can sell them up to December 31. This could get interesting.
I'm surprised I haven't seen any posts about the new regulations yet. The EPA published the new standards on the 3rd. They aren't as strict as they had proposed. It looks like all companies have less than 60 days left to build non qualified furnaces. All remaining units must be sold by December 31 2015. All phase 2 boilers meet the first phase (5 years) I believe. Check it out here: http://www2.epa.gov/residential-wood-heaters/fact-sheet-summary-requirements-wood-fired-hydronic-heaters (http://www2.epa.gov/residential-wood-heaters/fact-sheet-summary-requirements-wood-fired-hydronic-heaters)
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Well there you have it folks, we all knew it was coming! Anybody care to take bets on how many small manufacturers this will put out of business, how do you as the consumer get any warranty on a stove produced by one of those small manufacturers who can't afford to get his unit approved and closes the doors? Do you guys know what it costs to get a unit approved and the time frame it takes to do so, let me say this, $20,000 may cover the cost of the initial testing if it passes the first shot, then add in the cost of shipping the unit to the lab and back, a man to run it at the lab, meals, hotels and travel, preliminary testing at the factory before sending it to the lab, the cost of the boiler itself and OH let's not forget the research and development stage, Isn't Government great? Now let me say one more thing, the last unit that I had anything to do with testing was the Enviro 500 wood chip boiler for P+M, it passed on it's first run using dry wood chips ( because the feds wanted to meet that dry wood benchmark ) 6 months later the feds came back and said, OK we now realize that what you said at the lab about there being no dry chips in the market place is true so now please return to the lab and retest using green, above 40% moisture chips, it again passed on it's first run, all expenses were the responsibility of the manufacturer, it took 4 days from first firing through the 4 runs, the numbers were all there for the EPA's review, from start to finish it took the feds 1 year to read the 2 tests and approve the tag. How many manufacturers do you think will now close the doors because of the bull sheet that government has rammed down our throats, do you wonder why I'm a proud Libertarian, these people will never stop period
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Our government is too big and corrupt.
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Does burning pure coal in an outdoor boiler really cause less pollution than burning wood? Or is there just a better coal lobby than wood lobby?
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One more step closer to the American people's breaking point.
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Burning wood will be allowed when they find a way to tax it.
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>:( :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :'( :-\ :-[ ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? :( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Well there are a few things to blame here.
The big one, The EPA
two everyone who thought their boiler was an incinerator for garbage
Also those who had a couple acres with close neighbors and burned wet wood and gave them neighbors something to complain about. Of course the the EPA is enforcing it which sucks big time!
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I am curious to see what a "lumber crib" is as opposed to testing it with regular fire/cord wood.
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Does burning pure coal in an outdoor boiler really cause less pollution than burning wood? Or is there just a better coal lobby than wood lobby?
byproduct of coal is arsenic
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Jwood I'm going to have to disagree with you here. The EPA does not give a flying puck what ones neighbor thinks. Go ahead and try and complain to the EPA and see how far you get. This has to do with three things: money,money,and money. Call up the EPA and tell them you don't like the smell of your neighbors Chevy. Do you think they care? Nope
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Jwood I'm going to have to disagree with you here. The EPA does not give a flying puck what ones neighbor thinks. Go ahead and try and complain to the EPA and see how far you get. This has to do with three things: money,money,and money. Call up the EPA and tell them you don't like the smell of your neighbors Chevy. Do you think they care? Nope
I don't think I once said people were complaining to the EPA directly that's not how it works! It starts with town meetings, township meetings, city council meetings etc. What is brought up at those meetings is what goes to the next level. Enough people complain they will find a way to change what's allowed. Just like (your neighbors Chevy that has loud exhaust) and now there are vehicle noise laws because enough people thought it was a problem. The EPA is all about enforcement. It wasnt a guy working there sitting in a suit who came up with the idea to ban OWB because I would bet no body working there has never delt with a boiler.
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well said!
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I don't think I once said people were complaining to the EPA directly that's not how it works! It starts with town meetings, township meetings, city council meetings etc. What is brought up at those meetings is what goes to the next level. Enough people complain they will find a way to change what's allowed. Just like (your neighbors Chevy that has loud exhaust) and now there are vehicle noise laws because enough people thought it was a problem. The EPA is all about enforcement. It wasnt a guy working there sitting in a suit who came up with the idea to ban OWB because I would bet no body working there has never delt with a boiler.
[/quote] well said Jwood! :post:
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Well I can tell you that for 2 years I went to every public hearing, workshop that the State legislature or Maine DEP had, there was an agenda and it did not come from town meetings but instead was driven by Lies straight out of NESCAUM and the lung association, look up Nescaum, the front cover sheet on their report shows a CB that appears to be smoking up a storm, if you look real close you can see that the loading door is left slightly open and the unit is steaming off not smoking, personally if the cover of your report is a lie, i'm not going to believe anything in your report, that report had a great deal to do with our imposed laws here, now we can ALL enjoy their wisdom and honesty.
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In a way it is about money, but just like Obamacare has nothing to do about healthcare, the new EPA laws and Obamacare are about CONTROL. Make a boiler expensive enough and the people it would help the most can't afford them anymore. If they can't afford them then they are still stuck on the government tit waiting for their heating vouchers. Gotta squash that streak of independence anyway possible.
If the EPA and our government was really that worried about pollution, why not place an environmental tax on any import that was manufactured by a process that didn't meet our current environmental standards? China's air eventually becomes our air. Their polluted water eventually finds its way to the ocean and due to currents some of that eventually finds its way here as well.
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My gut reaction reading the new EPA ruling (which I knew was coming) was... "Well, I hope I get quite a few more years out of my conventional boiler." Gonna have to get a good welder on call! My previous thoughts were that the new regulations were actually a step in the right direction towards reducing pollution-- But I think you guys make some excellent points here. There has to be bigger fish to fry than the proportionally miniscule population of outdoor wood furnace owners.
What worries me most is the 2020 regulation. I mean, we are bitchin' about phase 2 standards, in 2020 they'll have to be 3X less polluting!
What do you guys honestly think the ENFORCEMENT of these new regulations will be like?
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I highly doubt the EPA will be driving around the country side looking for smoky boilers, however if a neighbor calls the right official and complains, you're screwed if you're not compliant. Plenty of time as well for them to do away with the grandfather clause behind closed doors.
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>:D yup....its about control !!! remember this f-ing winner>(EPA) official, Al Armendariza ... saying the EPA’s “philosophy” is to “crucify” and “make examples” ..........in his own words>>>> """It was kind of like how the Romans used to, you know, conquer villages in the Mediterranean. They’d go in to a little Turkish town somewhere, they’d find the first five guys they saw and they’d crucify them.
“Then, you know, that town was really easy to manage for the next few years.”
“It’s a deterrent factor,” Armendariz said, explaining that the EPA is following the Romans’ philosophy for subjugating conquered villages."""" THIS IS Their mindset !! thank u .gov @!#$%^&*()
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TheTinyDot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs#)
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or my other fav....."ISM" ... "Make Mine Freedom" (1948) cartoon ...get the kids and popcorn out & watch... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz9fX_HfsXA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz9fX_HfsXA)
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I don't care if half of my town complained about my woodstove,the EPA would never hear about. Why? Because my town does not have an agenda. Lung Associations, Oil Lobbyists,people and companies With money and looking for more money have agendas. They put that money into the pockets of the right people and BOOM...their million dollar bribe turns into a billion dollar profit. Does anyone on this site really think the government gives a $&@) about the air we breathe? Come on and wake up.
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Its all about government control. They can't tax wood yet so right now this is the next best solution. My neighbor is about 500 yards from my boiler. He asks me once a month if I have my boiler going. Good dry wood and phase II boiler. I can't imagine what a phase III would be like. I bet cleaning them would be a pita! I bet some type of catalyst will be in the newer phase III's.
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ATV, Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I LOVE IT
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thanks ! slim! > it should be a law (and the only law btw) that u have to watch ....."ISM" , "Make Mine Freedom" (1948) cartoon
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Here is a video of someone give stoves a bad name. http://youtu.be/YfLAORwO5Qs (http://youtu.be/YfLAORwO5Qs)
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Nature's comfort GT-220 has some kind of catalytic in its gasification stove. Here is a link: http://youtu.be/1LJrWSFrr38 (http://youtu.be/1LJrWSFrr38)
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OK, I have spent the better part of the last week reading the new rules, I would say that if you are a dealer, manufacturer or simply a concerned user that you should take the time to read how these nitwits have stolen your Liberty and at the same time created laws that will be absolutely impossible to enforce, all while enriching themselves and their friends, I personally find it all very dry and disgusting!!!!!!
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OK, I have spent the better part of the last week reading the new rules, I would say that if you are a dealer, manufacturer or simply a concerned user that you should take the time to read how these nitwits have stolen your Liberty and at the same time created laws that will be absolutely impossible to enforce, all while enriching themselves and their friends, I personally find it all very dry and disgusting!!!!!!
I got about a 1/3 of the way through and I got bored. They have a terrible writing style. Seriously, get to the point. I think their hopes are that if they throw a bunch of useless information in there that it will be easier to hide all the bull$!?#
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AYAH!!
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Wissel,
That video is 4 years old. And I bought a gt 220 new in December 2009. The Cayalytic converter were ceramic honeycomb discs in the exhaust. They disintegrated within 3 months.
NC replaced them with stainless steel discs free of charge. Now I have a different gasser and it does not have any catalytic converting discs in the exhaust. However, it smokes less and gasifies sooner.
Just saying, gimmick.
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Have you noticed that all the epa laws and all the government bills they pass are bloated with bullrip so nobody in their right mind can understand them.
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Have you noticed that all the epa laws and all the government bills they pass are bloated with bullrip so nobody in their right mind can understand them.
Thats because the majority of people writing these laws and regulations are lawyers.
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Don't forget the lobbyists, in this case, the pellet industry!
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Don't forget the lobbyists, in this case, the pellet industry!
Amen and everyone else who stands to make a buck. I'm not so quick to blame one party, it seems it's always save the environment or make legislation to cut an industry down so another can be more greedy.
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Be the lobbyist. Call your representatives. Email them. They have more brains than the EPA.
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Be the lobbyist. Call your representatives. Email them. They have more brains than the EPA.
Are you sure about that?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/13/the-constitution-is-400-years-old-and-more-pearls-from-sheila-jackson-lee.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/13/the-constitution-is-400-years-old-and-more-pearls-from-sheila-jackson-lee.html)
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And just think people voted for her to get that job. What does that say about those people?