Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Plumbing => Topic started by: heat550 on August 10, 2017, 03:18:41 AM
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I was wondering If alot Guys are using shark bite on air heat ex changers ? I have to install a 22x22 exchanger 1 inch in and out on top a furnace
and sharkbite would be better then heating up the exchanger any thoughts on them ?
Also has anyone tryed out the stainless steel double walled side arms 38inch 1 inch boiler ports ? 18,000 btu ?
I have lots of plumbing to do .
I have 20 year old taco 007 and 10 year old 011 I have had no troubles with any of them . but there older ones .
Whats most reliable Pumps today ?
I have to install another system for family and its going to be a big job .
furnace and a coil and heat ex changer on top .. to make it more interesting furnace has bigger fan 2000 cfm so has big boost like box with filter that goes under the up draft furnace for cold air return . . going with 22x22 heat ex changer fits the hole best 3.5 thick . target 130,000 btus . Its a big house 3800 sqft 3 levels to heat. 42.5 pounds of oak at 20 % per hour when fans on :) only thing that's good its a well insulated home :)
Heat550
side note has anyone figured out how to plumb air heat exchanger so you pull it out during the summer months ? and
plumbings not a issue ... like use that blue semi radiator hose .. or keep pex long enough to flex that much ? Because
pulling air heat ex changer out for summer would be way less air drag . any info be great . :bash:
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Sharkbites depend on an o-ring to seal. I am told that under high heat and with tension to one side the o-ring can flatten and cause it to leak. I'd feel a lot safer with a solder joint. You're not going to hurt the heat exchanger heating it up just to solder a fitting on it.
I have done a job where at the request of the homeowner we put the heat exchanger on rails to pull it out but I don't think he ever did. We just left the pex lines long enough. Too much air flow on the air conditioner coil will cause the condensate to be blown off the coil and cause it 'leak' in the furnace cabinet. Air conditioners are usually designed to run between .2 and .7 static pressure and a coil will add about .25 to that, unless you are running borderline you should have no problem leaving it in. If air flow has been increased with a bigger blower you may actually do it good. Wondering what ton coil is on that unit with a 2000cfm fan.
The goal is to get aprox. 400cfm per ton on the air coil. You can run a considerably higher static pressure as long as you say in your boundaries of cfm flow.
My feeling is, if the unit is performing good now you'll be good leaving it in.
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Far as pumps, running Grunfos here, I think I may be trying some of the ECM pumps from Armstrong, my electrical usage in the winter is killing me.
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I would think 22x22 should be large enough for 2,000 cfm to get through without causing AC issues. If you choose to use sharkbites do not have side pressure as shepherd boy said. Soldering pex adapters on is definitely more reliable, get it good and clean and it's not difficult.
The 007 and 0011 are very different pumps. 007 is a fairly low pressure medium flow pump, 0011 is a high pressure high flow pump. Both have their place. That big 22x22 coil will need fairly decent flow with 2,000 cfm. Not sure what distance you're pumping or what size piping.
We've used a few Taco's and Grundfos with good success but we've used hundreds of B&G's with very few failures. Kind of a Ford/Chevy type of thing. A lot of pump failures I've seen are from poor quality water/corrosion or damage from cavitation, neither are the pumps fault.
Can't say on the sidearm, I use flat plates myself.
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If you absolutely want to remove it, then use one inch heater hose. The blue stuff like on a lot of semi’s is silicone heater hose, very reliable and very expensive. Regular ole black heater hose should be fine. Most failures with it isn’t from actual use but contamination from the outside like oil leaks, abrasion, etc. The wife’s Jeep is a 2004 model, doesn’t leak any oil, all original hoses that are fine yet. We have tractors that use standard hoses on em for oil coolers or just for a tank heater, bio-diesel eats those up quick if you have a seep or leak. Believe Slim uses heater hose on all his hookups at the stove to allow for heaving of the pad when it happens in his area, if it didn’t work well he wouldn’t use it.
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+ on the regular car radiator hose. Got the idea from slim. I have it on y connections at the boiler pex to pumps. I had a failure last year but it was from tightening the clamp down to hard on the hose, it cut into the hose slightly causing a failure about midseason. The leak wasn't to bad but the low water cut off shut down the stove.
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If you make the heat exchanger removable, you need to have some way to completely seal the opening where it goes in. If it is leaking air it will be much worse for the system than leaving it in there.
If you want to remove it, I would make a slot that it slides into and a cover that can be put on after it is removed. Using unions to you can just detach it and store it would probably be a lot better than having it hanging there with tons of slack hose.
If you do want to keep it attached, I would make a pocket for storing it on the furnace so the fins stay protected.
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Thanks for the input . I will solder pex ends on . Thats been trouble free on older system I have also. Im thinking the issue will be getting air to other end of house. Its design with furnace closer to one end . That is what he was thinking with 2000 cfm fan.
He has new a 3 ton air conditioner and he keeps pretty cool in his house. I could go with the Blue radiator hose also on ex changer well see what he wants . The boilers 50 feet from his house attached garage pump will be there in garage and in to furnace room another 30 feet . Its total finished garage also. then to domestic water heat exchanger then to air exchanger on furnace and return will have smaller air ex changer in garage on the return line . Yes I will look at furnace Manuel hes got the mating A coil its big for a 3 ton 400 cfm per ton he will be on lower end of the fan speed . fan has 4 speeds settings 2000 1800 1600 1400 rpm I need to figure that out yet . His total boiler loop will be about 160 feet . All 1 inch lines outside line pex al pex and inside will be vapor barrier pex the better stuff . Its a 200,000 btu boiler . Pump Size is a bit of a mystery yet . 011 taco would do it I think as its pretty much a straight shot . domestic exchanger and 22x22 air exchanger and 16x16 is the drag with little elbows as possible. :bag:
this will be total heating and cooling and wood boiler install. Im just happy duct works not getting changed . fingers crossed.
Next level would be way to check static pressure and a Flow meter for boiler line so really know the pump flow rate I hate mystery's. do they make affordable flow meter to snap on the line yet . Last I checked I have to take out a loan to buy one .:)
Heat550
Sharkbites depend on an o-ring to seal. I am told that under high heat and with tension to one side the o-ring can flatten and cause it to leak. I'd feel a lot safer with a solder joint. You're not going to hurt the heat exchanger heating it up just to solder a fitting on it.
I have done a job where at the request of the homeowner we put the heat exchanger on rails to pull it out but I don't think he ever did. We just left the pex lines long enough. Too much air flow on the air conditioner coil will cause the condensate to be blown off the coil and cause it 'leak' in the furnace cabinet. Air conditioners are usually designed to run between .2 and .7 static pressure and a coil will add about .25 to that, unless you are running borderline you should have no problem leaving it in. If air flow has been increased with a bigger blower you may actually do it good. Wondering what ton coil is on that unit with a 2000cfm fan.
The goal is to get aprox. 400cfm per ton on the air coil. You can run a considerably higher static pressure as long as you say in your boundaries of cfm flow.
My feeling is, if the unit is performing good now you'll be good leaving it in.
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Yes It will get interesting .. At first it seems you have all kinds a room to get in to stuff . But after install it will all be a tight fit .
unions and good drain system work also That is good thinking . another Idea might work is its going to be quit high where the air ex changer goes in maybe a slide out rail it sits on over head and slide door up to cover hole . I need to do more measuring .. thanks for input. :thumbup:
Heat550
If you make the heat exchanger removable, you need to have some way to completely seal the opening where it goes in. If it is leaking air it will be much worse for the system than leaving it in there.
If you want to remove it, I would make a slot that it slides into and a cover that can be put on after it is removed. Using unions to you can just detach it and store it would probably be a lot better than having it hanging there with tons of slack hose.
If you do want to keep it attached, I would make a pocket for storing it on the furnace so the fins stay protected.
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I have one of them electric meters plugin style I should see how much mine draw . on paper they say hardly nothing but might be different story 20 years later :) I will look in to them :)
Heat550
Far as pumps, running Grunfos here, I think I may be trying some of the ECM pumps from Armstrong, my electrical usage in the winter is killing me.
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On the heatmor doors I use that blue hose never replaced a set yet . going on 4 years old stove and now 3 year on new stove .
only scary part they sure are soft when there HOT. person should put a protector on them so you don't bump them with big wood chunks . Ideas are welcome .. like steel brade cover or coil spring style maybe or just plastic wire wrap for 1 inch.
1978 van motorhome radiator hose blow out covered everything . 3 years later all rubber hose needed replacing everything that got wet when hose blow out it was like the antifreeze just ate in to rubber vacum lines . Vans it gets dam hot under them hoods in the mountains . But rubber wasn't as good in 1978.
Heat550
If you absolutely want to remove it, then use one inch heater hose. The blue stuff like on a lot of semi’s is silicone heater hose, very reliable and very expensive. Regular ole black heater hose should be fine. Most failures with it isn’t from actual use but contamination from the outside like oil leaks, abrasion, etc. The wife’s Jeep is a 2004 model, doesn’t leak any oil, all original hoses that are fine yet. We have tractors that use standard hoses on em for oil coolers or just for a tank heater, bio-diesel eats those up quick if you have a seep or leak. Believe Slim uses heater hose on all his hookups at the stove to allow for heaving of the pad when it happens in his area, if it didn’t work well he wouldn’t use it.
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Good info there. Your 2000,1800, 1600 and 1400 are your cfm not rpm. Rpm will run at about 1000 to 1100 on high, but that is a non issue. 1400 cfm would be on the high side for a 3 ton in cooling mode, but with the addition of a water coil the static pressure would increase and slow the cfm down. However your existing duck will have some static suction on return and pressure on feed, but all in all you should have plenty of ramp up in that fan for a water coil left in. I'd leave the coil in and start on low in cooling and ramp it up in speeds and watch your condensate. If it starts to pull off the drain pan slow it down. With proper freon load, if the coil frosts up you need more speed 'air flow'. But you have a lot of parameter to work with. Your looking good, have at it!
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On the heatmor doors I use that blue hose never replaced a set yet . going on 4 years old stove and now 3 year on new stove .
only scary part they sure are soft when there HOT. person should put a protector on them so you don't bump them with big wood chunks . Ideas are welcome .. like steel brade cover or coil spring style maybe or just plastic wire wrap for 1 inch.
1978 van motorhome radiator hose blow out covered everything . 3 years later all rubber hose needed replacing everything that got wet when hose blow out it was like the antifreeze just ate in to rubber vacum lines . Vans it gets dam hot under them hoods in the mountains . But rubber wasn't as good in 1978.
Heat550
I was had a mechanic friend tell me that the composition of a black heater hose is different inside than outside, getting antifreeze on the outside of it is harder on em than having antifreeze flowing thru em.
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0011 would have plenty of flow... 007 is a bit on the low end. There are other lower cost pumps with better head than a 007.
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0011 would have plenty of flow... 007 is a bit on the low end. There are other lower cost pumps with better head than a 007.
Wild Idea Maybe put 2 pumps taco 007 in without check valves . Would the water still flow in case one would stop .
Im sure there is a technical name for it :) then pumps would Half both ways 50 ft to garage from boiler 60 feet to return pump and then 50 feet back to boiler . Think I would get my 10 GPM ( rough Guess ) in 160 feet total ? 38 inch domestic water heater 22x22 air exchanger then a 16x16 air ex changer . Might work better because its a open system . any ideas ? Pumps are going in garage not in the boiler . :bag:
Heat550
I have 1-taco 007 in my shop zone 210 feet total run and 19x20 air ex changer . with only a 500 cfm fan . 32x32 shop
thats pulling 105 feet and pushing thru ex changer and out 105 feet . its a 20 year old pump . I have a 1200 cfm needs some work .
:thumbup:
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Yes, two pumps would give a safety net. My point was that something like a 15-58 Grundfos, B&G NRF-22 or 25, etc have higher pressure output at about the same price as a 007, and nowhere near the cost of a 0011.
Pushing on the supply line is much less likely to cavitate rather than pulling somewhere "downstream", especially with a 0011.
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Yes, two pumps would give a safety net. My point was that something like a 15-58 Grundfos, B&G NRF-22 or 25, etc have higher pressure output at about the same price as a 007, and nowhere near the cost of a 0011.
Pushing on the supply line is much less likely to cavitate rather than pulling somewhere "downstream", especially with a 0011.
Thanks great info I will in look in to them :) With the 2 pump Idea . I wonder if any of these pumps without check valve . How much flow
you would get if one stopped . I have one old 007 I got at flea market I could test. But I'm sure Grundfos and B&G has no check valve also.
I'm thinking I don't want check valve to close on either pumps. But they might just be directional flow and still open .
Heat550
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Flow test when boilers cold .. Has anyone seen these or maybe found a cheaper way to check flow after full systems installed .
This I idea would check when cold and use a bypass . and it measure in liters but you just convert . Spotted it on ebay .
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JCoAAOSwNRdX-Lf2/s-l1600.jpg.
Heat550
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If it causes any restriction it may not be real accurate compared to flow when removed.
I have never tried it but you should be able to estimate flow pretty close by using a pressure gauge near the pump outlet. If you check pressure with pump off then run pump and subtract pressure when not running you should be able to convert it to head pressure then look it flow curve chart for the pump to find flow.
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Pressure gauge at the outlet of the pump. Now that is an intriguing idea! I'll have to try that sometime when puttering around on a slow day. Wouldn't that be a novelty to add to a show trailer for the engineer at heart to observe.
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Ok I have a taco 011 with psi gauge mounted 5 inches from pump outlet . It reads 2 psi when off and 12 psi when running .
so it be 10 PSI how do I convert it to head pressure . I have the pump curve chart here .
Heat550
If it causes any restriction it may not be real accurate compared to flow when removed.
I have never tried it but you should be able to estimate flow pretty close by using a pressure gauge near the pump outlet. If you check pressure with pump off then run pump and subtract pressure when not running you should be able to convert it to head pressure then look it flow curve chart for the pump to find flow.
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Let me know if I'm close :)
would be in a vacuum or atmosphere.
Heat550
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Multiple psi x 2.3 to get head pressure. I am on my phone right now so can't easily post a flow chart. Just search Google images for "taco 0011 curve"
Looks like it should be about 10gpm.
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Wow that's a rethinker .. How correct is that ? Yes chart says 10gpm .. This really supports I don't have enough baseboards . I need to makesure all zone valves are open yet but that's amazing . This might be a fix for my system add couple air exchangers in the zones . and put another taco 011 on the return line . Thanks for the info ...... I will let you know my findings .
Heat550
I will put pressure gauge after pump on system I'm putting in also :)
Multiple psi x 2.3 to get head pressure. I am on my phone right now so can't easily post a flow chart. Just search Google images for "taco 0011 curve"
Looks like it should be about 10gpm.
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See now it openes up how to put a low pressure gauge on the vent on outlet of pump on my other house :)
to see what the GPM is there :)
Heat550
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I made sure all zones were open . and tested a couple times and its holding at 10-11 psi So that works out to 8-10 GPM taco 011
That means 80,000-100,000 btu it could supply . It makes me wonder if I put 2 armstrong 20-20CI pumps in if it help out
my base board system and then add couple small air ex changers . to my old system . instead of making a primary and secondary system . because now my baseboards don't have enough output . in my system . thanks for the tip to ckeck GPM .
Heat550
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I just wanted to comment on the shark bite fittings, or use them the first year I installed my woodstove in my new house, they sealed fine for about three months into the second heating season and started to lick slowly. The O-ring ended up becoming flat and water could Seep past. I ended up just soldering some copper to pex male fittings on the exchanger. If you're in a pinch and want to get the stove rolling the shark bites will be fine but they do not last. If u have some time to do it, do it right and skip them.
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Thanks for the input :thumbup: I will solder some ends on then . About year ago I found these 1 inch copper to 1 inch pex fittings
made of copper .
witch work great but I cant find them now . I Think they work better then the bass fittings . for heat transfer when soldering . still hunting . :bash:
Heat550
I just wanted to comment on the shark bite fittings, or use them the first year I installed my woodstove in my new house, they sealed fine for about three months into the second heating season and started to lick slowly. The O-ring ended up becoming flat and water could Seep past. I ended up just soldering some copper to pex male fittings on the exchanger. If you're in a pinch and want to get the stove rolling the shark bites will be fine but they do not last. If u have some time to do it, do it right and skip them.
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http://www.pexuniverse.com/pex-fittings (http://www.pexuniverse.com/pex-fittings) Has 1" all copper sweat to pex adapters down at the bottom on the copper pipe adapter page. But brass has worked fine for me.
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Putting 2 pumps in series will double the head pressure but the max gpm will be the same as one pump.
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I wont let you know how long I searched ... :bash: Thanks Its much appreciated.. :thumbup:
Heat550
http://www.pexuniverse.com/pex-fittings (http://www.pexuniverse.com/pex-fittings) Has 1" all copper sweat to pex adapters down at the bottom on the copper pipe adapter page. But brass has worked fine for me.
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:thumbup:
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Yes I just want to make sure Im getting the GPM By using a second pump . You say series do you mean one in front of the other ?
or one on the incoming and one on the out going ? Im still thinking of adding 2 small air ex changers in my system. Im 125 feet to boiler outside . head pressure would be my issue . My baseboard system 1 inch pex al pex from boiler then splits to 2 - 3/4 inch copper
and I have domestic water side arm .
on the pump output side theirs total 6-3/4 3 way zone valves and 1 -19x20 air exchanger in garage . Im pushing it thru lot of zone valves 65 feet of baseboards.. this same taco 011 that pressure checks 10 GPM . this system is 20 years old . house is 2450 sqft counting up and down stairs . one level is 1225 spft . garage is about 600 sqft .
this my system Needs more heat to house subzero only holds 55-65f and its a head scratch er.
how to fix it or just install air ex changer and run duct work and make the baseboard system a plate ex changer secondary.
This was a great system until off peak electric started going up :) we used that for subzero days now it would cost to much .
other system Im installing were still ordering parts and fittings insul seal etc . :thumbup:
Heat550
Putting 2 pumps in series will double the head pressure but the max gpm will be the same as one pump.
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I wont let you know how long I searched ... :bash: Thanks Its much appreciated.. :thumbup:
Heat550
http://www.pexuniverse.com/pex-fittings (http://www.pexuniverse.com/pex-fittings) Has 1" all copper sweat to pex adapters down at the bottom on the copper pipe adapter page. But brass has worked fine for me.
I didn't notice that post before. If you just need a couple I would give them to you for the shipping cost. I have lots of them.
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Stacking pumps inline anywhere in the loop doubles the head pressure, but pushing v. pulling reduces the potential for cavitation.
If you're return water temp is low you're lacking in flow, if it's high I'd guess you don't have enough baseboard.
There's a pinch point somewhere, either in too long or too small of piping, or too few emitters.
I would usually break it up into primary / secondary loops... But hopefully you can tweak things and get some more heat.
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If you would happen to have a menards hardware store near you that is the place to go for any fittings you need. Thy even carry a handful of pumps but they are somewhat more expensive. They have 3 isles full of any size and type of fittings a guycan imagine.
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Ok yes I visited local Menards.. Now more head scratching . They didn't have copper 1 inch to pex.. but they did have 1 1/4 ball valves.
Now with this new install I'm doing he has a 50 foot run to the boiler. He's thinking he needs 100,000 BTUs he's heating 3800 sqft total that's counting upstairs downstairs and garage semi well insulated 1991 house . He has 22x22 air exchanger and stainless side arm for domestic water all 1 inch . Question is should I go to 1 1/4 pex Al pex from the boiler to house in the inul seal ? If I did is there a benefit. Because exchanger and side arm are only 1 inch and would I just run 1 1/4 to the pump or would I run 1 1/4 everywhere. And would the extra cash for 1 1/4 be worth it . In my old install 1 1/4 was not option years ago . So I never messed with 1 1/4. But I noticed 1 inch pex only delivers around 84,000 BTUs where this new install I'm doing we want to hit 100,000 BTUs. Any advise???
Heat550
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My thoughts-
A particular size of pipe does not deliver a fixed BTU rate, btu's are a combination of flow and temp drop (Dt). That big 22X22 coil can pull more than 100,000 btu's off a 1" Pex line if you counterflow the water to the airflow and make sure the air is spread out evenly through the finned area.
Might run a bit large Dt but 50' is a fairly short run so flow rates will be higher.
Not saying 1 1/4" is a bad thing but a short run is very different than a long one. And Pex-al-Pex is larger than regular Pex anyway.
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I might be looking at this wrong . But to get 10GPM . I would need 1 inch pex al pex to boiler and once in side garage I change over
to Pex OX barrier 1 1/4 . because 1 inch pex ox barrier is only .875 inside . Why cant pipe just be size they call out . lol I know there some dam metric issue behind all this . :bag:
Heat550
chart in attachment .
http://www.pigsunlimited.com/resources/pigging-formulas/velocity-in-feet-per-second-fps-to-gallons-per-minutegpm/
used this link to figure out FPS to GPM
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Why cant pipe just be size they call out . lol I know there some dam metric issue behind all this . :bag:
It has nothing to do with metric. Most pex sold in the US is copper tubing size which is the same outside diameter as copper pipe. The wall thickness is 1/9th the diameter so as the size gets larger the ID get off by more..
Since they make fittings that are interchangable with copper and other types of CTS pipe, (sharkbite, compression, etc) there was no other way to do it.
Pex such as Logstor that is sold as 1" ID is actually just metric pipe that happens to be that size. The wall thickness is 1/11th the diameter so it can not handle as much pressure as the standard stuff.
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So is it best to go back to old school trusty 1 inch copper. Sure is pointing that way .. after looking at pex barrier 1 1/4 prices. What does the new intallers use ? Im mean ones that aren't limited to customers strange requests. :thumbup:
Heat550
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Heat 550.
When I do a install in the northeast, I use the Logstor from the boiler to house then to 1"copper tube in basement. I rarely go with 1 1/4" pex. It is just as much as copper. Also use 1"long radius copper A/C 90deg fittings. The 1" heater hose slides over the 1" copper tube. Copper looks better and has less droop.
Also Logstor specs out at 87psi. Should never see that on a open system.
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Heat 550.
When I do a install in the northeast, I use the Logstor from the boiler to house then to 1"copper tube in basement. I rarely go with 1 1/4" pex. It is just as much as copper. Also use 1"long radius copper A/C 90deg fittings. The 1" heater hose slides over the 1" copper tube. Copper looks better and has less droop.
Also Logstor specs out at 87psi. Should never see that on a open system.
I’m pretty sure most circulators used won’t build that kind of pressure anyways, they are meant for volume more than pressure. Now if somebody cheated and bought like a booster pump instead of a dedicated hydronic pump then maybe, but even well pumps max out at a certain pressure.
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Heat 550.
When I do a install in the northeast, I use the Logstor from the boiler to house then to 1"copper tube in basement. I rarely go with 1 1/4" pex. It is just as much as copper. Also use 1"long radius copper A/C 90deg fittings. The 1" heater hose slides over the 1" copper tube. Copper looks better and has less droop.
Also Logstor specs out at 87psi. Should never see that on a open system.
I’m pretty sure most circulators used won’t build that kind of pressure anyways, they are meant for volume more than pressure. Now if somebody cheated out and bought like a booster pump instead of a dedicated hydronic pump then maybe, but even well pumps max out at a certain pressure.
I think he may have mentioned the pressure because of what I posted above. I didn't mean to imply that there was any problem with the pressure rating of the metric pex, just pointing out one of the reasons the standard pex had a smaller ID was because it has a thicker wall and it can take more pressure.
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Heat 550.
When I do a install in the northeast, I use the Logstor from the boiler to house then to 1"copper tube in basement. I rarely go with 1 1/4" pex. It is just as much as copper. Also use 1"long radius copper A/C 90deg fittings. The 1" heater hose slides over the 1" copper tube. Copper looks better and has less droop.
Also Logstor specs out at 87psi. Should never see that on a open system.
I’m pretty sure most circulators used won’t build that kind of pressure anyways, they are meant for volume more than pressure. Now if somebody cheated and bought like a booster pump instead of a dedicated hydronic pump then maybe, but even well pumps max out at a certain pressure.
75 psi for a well pump.
I just wanted to mention to be a little careful purchasing pex AL pex. I've seen it in more than one occasion where the inside pex actually bubbles over time separating from the aluminum and restricting flow.
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What brand was it ? I have kitec here 1 inch pex al pex 20 years old now . 470 ft on 2 loops in ground . What
company can do same quality as 1996 Kitec ??? for new install Im doing :photo:
Heat550
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I think it is boiling water that made the pex-al-pex separate and bulge inwards. Most of it I have seen with the problem was Kitec brand.
I have kitec at home and it is still fine.
If you go with new pex-al-pex, a good name brand should be fine. Rifeng is the only chinese brand I would trust. Some of the real name brands are re-labeled Rifeng.
If you get new pex-al-pex, you will not be able to use Kitec fittings. Kitek was 25mm ID and 32mm OD. All the new stuff is 26mm ID and 32mm OD. You can use the new fittings in Kitec if you use the correct reamer tool.
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My in house heating plant is Geothermal (when I'm not using the OWB) and I use a high efficiency gas furnace as my air handler for the water to air system rather than buying an empty box with a blower in it for about the same price (plus an additional backup heat source). My Geothermal unit is 4 ton and the furnace has a 5 ton capacity ECM blower in it. I sized the water to air coil I installed above my A-coil for the OWB to have the heat exchange area (not the frame size) the same size as my plenum dimensions. I had to have a mounting box made to accommodate the heat exchanger as I did not want any additional static pressure increase from the water to air heat exchanger. I also used Sharkbite fittings and they have not given me any problems. Just make sure they are OEM Sharkbite and not a knock off. Air flow is critical for Geothermal and my static pressure differential did not even change by .1 inches across the added heat exchanger. I never remove it either and run my blower at about 1800 cfm for A/C and about 1600cfm for heating.
I have now changed out 2 of my B&G pumps with Grundfus Alpha pumps to help lower my electric usage. I am not able to use these for my main circ. pumps out at the boiler but they are working great in my shed for the in floor system and for my buffer tank on the in floor system in the house. I did use one as my bypass pump when I had the G400 but don't need one now on my G200. I am hoping they come out with higher capacity ECM pumps at a reasonable price by the time I have any problems with my B&G pumps at the OWB.
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I just talked to Armstrong the other day and the larger ECM pumps that they were going to release this year got pushed back till next year.
I am hoping they will be in a reasonable price range.
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Thanks for the info I will try and find Watts pex al pex . I seen RSI boilers have that Armstrong ECM pump 20-20 ci .
I will have to order one and give it a try . Is there a good site to get the 1 inch copper sweep ( ac ) 90 .
Because I will not find them locally . Its going to get crazy here pretty quick on the new install Im doing .
digging trench soon . slabs in :thumbup:
Heat550
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I'm going to run blue semi heater hose to the airexchanger. hose will end up about 3-4 foot long each . So it can be pulled out of duct .
In summer. And installing bypass and valve and bleeder valves. So it will be easy to change hose and bypass so it can heat just domestic water also. Install starting to take shape. All 1 inch copper to 1 inch blue hose. Weight of duct and boiler exchanger will be supported from floor joists above. No weight on lp furnace or a coil cabnet .
Because the bigger fan on furnace . Furnace is sit directly on cold air return duct work . It's a up draft lp Furnace. :thumbup:
Heat550
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Thanks for the info I will try and find Watts pex al pex . I seen RSI boilers have that Armstrong ECM pump 20-20 ci .
I will have to order one and give it a try . Is there a good site to get the 1 inch copper sweep ( ac ) 90 .
Because I will not find them locally . Its going to get crazy here pretty quick on the new install Im doing .
digging trench soon . slabs in :thumbup:
Heat550
Watts pex-al-pex is just re-labeled Rifeng brand. They might have better quality control when they sell it to Watts but Rifeng branded pipe is usually pretty decent.
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Project pushes on got new furnace a coil and woob boiler exchanger mount in place. Has anyone ever used 1 inch soft copper tubing inside Insul seal instead of pex Al pex .. Boiler to house is only 50 feet..
Roll 1 inch copper is about twice as much as pex Al pex . Any input would be great.. got air conditioner fired up. 👍😀 It's working great.
Heat550
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. Is there a good site to get the 1 inch copper sweep ( ac ) 90 .
Because I will not find them locally .
You looking for sweat? http://www.supplyhouse.com/Copper-Fittings-130000
Or for pex? http://www.supplyhouse.com/Sioux-Chief-642X4-1-PEX-x-1-PEX-Elbow-Lead-Free