Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Username: Password:

Author Topic: Vocabulary lesson  (Read 812 times)

woodman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
  • OWF Brand: hawken
  • OWF Model: he1000
    • View Profile
Vocabulary lesson
« on: November 28, 2016, 06:22:35 AM »

Well the time has come for me to correctly re plumb the indoor side of my heat system. Back in 07 when I had no idea what I was doing and how complex my house would become, I simply ran my plate exchanger first in series with my forced air hx. Simple, 1 pump on back of the boiler and 2 hx's. Now I am up to 4 hx with the future plans of one more. You can imagine what the head loss is and what my return temps are. Believe it or not it still actually works quite well since there are rarely more than 2 hx's calling for heat at one time. Still, I am currently up to 4 now with the plans for 1 more for sure, and who knows where I go from there. Back in 07 if you would have told me how much I like all this stuff and how it has almost become a hobby I would have laughed.

I've got a pretty good idea how I want to do it, I just need to know all the correct names of the components. I plan on converting to a primary secondary loop. On the secondary loop each hx will be a separate zone, with each zone controlled with a zone valve. A single pump will take care of the secondary. That is where I get a little lost. What exactly do I need at each hx to tell its zone valve to open and how does that zone valve tell the secondary loop pump to turn on or off. I know there are relays and pump controls but I need to know what they are called and how they work and are wired.
Logged

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3599
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: Vocabulary lesson
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2016, 06:49:06 AM »

What you need is a zone controller from Taco, wiring is pretty much self explanatory and it handles turning your secondary loop pump on an off. If need to be they can be hooked together so you can control more than six zones.

Something like this should work:


http://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-ZVC406-EXP-4-6-Zone-Valve-Control-Module-with-Priority
Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana

slimjim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5213
  • OWF Brand: Wood Doctor / HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: 14,000. / G 200 and G 400
  • Southern Maine
    • View Profile
    • www.mainlycustom.com
Re: Vocabulary lesson
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2016, 07:17:15 AM »

Stay away from zone valves as they tend to be problematic and severely reduce flow.
Logged
Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

woodman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
  • OWF Brand: hawken
  • OWF Model: he1000
    • View Profile
Re: Vocabulary lesson
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2016, 10:36:52 AM »

Stay away from zone valves as they tend to be problematic and severely reduce flow.

Interesting. So what are you recommending? Zoning with separate circulators?
 
Logged

slimjim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5213
  • OWF Brand: Wood Doctor / HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: 14,000. / G 200 and G 400
  • Southern Maine
    • View Profile
    • www.mainlycustom.com
Re: Vocabulary lesson
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2016, 12:04:35 PM »

Yes, with today's circs and included check valves, zone controlling is made very easy!
Logged
Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3599
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: Vocabulary lesson
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2016, 01:45:44 PM »

Yes, with today's circs and included check valves, zone controlling is made very easy!

Actually Slim has a point, small circulators can usually be had for less than the cost of a zone valve and the actuator.

Instead of zoning module use one of these instead: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-SR506-EXP-4-6-Zone-Switching-Relay-w-Priority

If you donít need six zones they can be ordered with less, if you need more they can be piggy backed, order one with a hookup or two more than you need incase you want to add something in the future.
Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana

woodman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
  • OWF Brand: hawken
  • OWF Model: he1000
    • View Profile
Re: Vocabulary lesson
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2016, 02:20:32 PM »

Yes, with today's circs and included check valves, zone controlling is made very easy!

Actually Slim has a point, small circulators can usually be had for less than the cost of a zone valve and the actuator.

Instead of zoning module use one of these instead: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-SR506-EXP-4-6-Zone-Switching-Relay-w-Priority

If you donít need six zones they can be ordered with less, if you need more they can be piggy backed, order one with a hookup or two more than you need incase you want to add something in the future.

OK thanks, but this is what my problem is. I don't know what a switching relay does and what a priority is and if I need it. In my simple mind you would just tie the thermostat from each zone to its own pump, or zone valve with a seperate relay between them.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 02:26:45 PM by woodman »
Logged

schoppy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 292
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: G200
    • View Profile
Re: Vocabulary lesson
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2016, 11:15:29 PM »

Not sure what your different loads are woodman and how you currently have them hooked together. Slimjim's advice really helped me out when I changed my piping over inside my house. Initially I had 1" pex feeding a 10 plate water to water exchanger for my domestic hot water then the 1" pex went to a 20x25 water to air exchanger for my forced air heat both in series. This greatly restricted my flow and I needed to add one more 30 plate water to water exchanger besides (didn't know the smaller the number of plates the more restriction).

Slim suggested using monoflow tees and it worked great. I changed my primary loop in the house to 1 1/4" pex and used 1 1/4"x 1" monoflow tees to each of my three loads. I used two tees for each load and am still using my 10 plate for DHW (I will change to a 20 plate if the 10 plate ever clogs). The second 30 plate I added is for my infloor radiant that feeds about 1/3 of my house and a heated attached garage, it heats my buffer tank for that system. I should have used 1 1/4" pex the whole way but didn't, wasn't about to dig up my outside lines but changing the inside primary loop with 1 1/4" and adding the monoflow tees with 3 loads now increased my GPM flow for the house feed by over 30%. No additional pumps, no zone valves (Slim's right about zone valves also) and no relays. Much simpler and works great for me. Thanks Slim!   
Logged
Husqvarna 562XP
Echo CS-361P
Echo CS-310
31 ton splitter

slimjim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5213
  • OWF Brand: Wood Doctor / HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: 14,000. / G 200 and G 400
  • Southern Maine
    • View Profile
    • www.mainlycustom.com
Re: Vocabulary lesson
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2016, 02:41:16 AM »

You could do it with line voltage thermostats but that means running 110 volt wiring, typically the low voltage wiring is 24 volt AC current, when the TT ( thermostat ) calls for heat it makes it's connection allowing the relay to close and then sends power to the corresponding circ with 110 volts.
Logged
Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

shepherd boy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 255
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: C375 2014 model
    • View Profile
    • www.heatmasterfurnace.com
Re: Vocabulary lesson
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2016, 04:05:30 AM »

I'll echo that advise, stay away from zone valves, use circulators and relays from thermostats.
Logged
HeatMaster Distributor for southeast US

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3599
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: Vocabulary lesson
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2016, 05:12:46 PM »

You donít have to use the priority option on the taco controllers, its also nice that they have a fuse build in for each pump.
Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana