Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers with NON EPA-Certified Models Only => Home Made => Topic started by: mlappin on October 11, 2017, 06:53:50 PM

Title: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on October 11, 2017, 06:53:50 PM
So after building the last waste oil boiler designed around a burner from http://usedoilheatingsystems.com/ (http://usedoilheatingsystems.com/) I stumbled on a kit to take the an standard fuel oil burner and convert it to waste oil, of course. The one I built works fine, but needs manually lit for starters, then once the water reaches 192 it shuts off automatically but then needs relit again if needed. Primarily I use it for batch burns in the shoulder seasons.

I’m thinking with an automatic setup next time we go overseas for three or four weeks just make sure the oil reservoir is full and let the G200 go out. Father has already proven he’s both too set in his ways and/or stubborn to actually follow directions on keeping a gasifier going. Last time we went away for a few days he forgot to fill it in the morning, then that night he just dropped some small crap in the bottom, some more stuff on top and left, got home at 8PM to the red light flashing and 108 degree water on the coldest night that month had to offer.

Anyways, thinking dry base this time lined with firebrick as water cooled metal really quenches the flame, the ceramic blanket directly above my burn pot always has a fine white ash on it as well as the door, everywhere else is a black sooty mess. Keeping it compact as well to regain some floor space, thinking 3-4’ long lower burn chamber then to a vertical section with heat exchanger tubes and turbolators, pretty sure I know where I can get some of those. Get a new 250 gallon oblong fuel tank to mount overhead for storage.

Anyways, link to conversion kit.


http://ckburners.com/burnerbuilding.html
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: BoilerHouse on October 13, 2017, 07:56:35 AM
Marty, I will be following this build and good luck with it.  I imagine a source of fuel is not a problem with all the farm equipment that needs to be maintained.
After the vertical HX, will the flue gas pass up to the stack?
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on October 13, 2017, 08:23:37 AM
Marty, I will be following this build and good luck with it.  I imagine a source of fuel is not a problem with all the farm equipment that needs to be maintained.
After the vertical HX, will the flue gas pass up to the stack?

Thats the plan, going with all vertical tubes and turbolators to avoid having to brush my current setup. It makes a mess no matter what.

I’m gonna talk to a friend, he’s one of the few around who’ll actually mess with oil burners yet, I just need a unit that has a good motor and ignition transformer, the pump comes clear of it anyways.
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on October 15, 2017, 07:12:19 AM
Marty, I will be following this build and good luck with it.  I imagine a source of fuel is not a problem with all the farm equipment that needs to be maintained.
After the vertical HX, will the flue gas pass up to the stack?

Actually since switching to all no-till almost ten years ago we don’t generate near the waste oil we used to. If it was a wet year when we still did tillage a few tractors might actually get oil changed twice a year as might work the same piece of ground several times trying to get it to dry out, now most of em barely get a hundred hours a year on em. Also have enough tractors now when making hay one goes on the discbvine, another on the tedder, another on the rake and another on the round baler and they stay there until fall when finally done with hay.

After looking at my current boiler I can just modify the door slightly and slide the gun right in the door after cutting a hole thru both layers then adding a sleeve to it. I’ll gladly post any pictures of what I end up with far as the burner though.


Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on October 27, 2017, 10:55:02 PM
A used oil burner is as hard to find as an honest politician around here. Nobody has one just laying around, so bought a used one off Ebay.

The kit is pretty straight forward, directions pretty concise, wiring was a snap.

If anybody attempts this as well and you use the Beckett AF or AFG just make sure it does NOT have the L1 or V1 head. None of it is reusable. I started out with a fresh blast tube, then had to modify the old electrode holder to work with the heater block, then had to make a centering device, a lathe and bridgeport came in handy there. I need to sleeve my door yet and waiting on a brass float kit to show up from Amazon. I’ve played around a little bit with it, even with the preheater block, the temp of the incoming oil is critical. Anything below 50 and forget it. I think I’m going to set up a heater on the float reservoir then use a normally open and a normally closed solenoid valve. Reprogram the Honeywell controller to run the fan after the ignition cycle for like a purge, hook the air solenoid to the motor lead, then the fuel solenoid connection on the controller to the NO/NC solenoids so when its done burning the one close and cuts the oil off at the tank and the other opens to vent the line so I can purge it so it doesn’t have the possibility of having cold oil in it. Kinda like how DEF systems purge all the lines when the engine is shut off.
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on October 30, 2017, 09:11:45 PM
Success, sleeved the door tonight, a plasma cutter even blasts thru Kwool.

Still waiting on the blasted float.
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on November 02, 2017, 02:48:43 PM
About 90% success on cold starts.

I’m sure the other 10% will be taken care of by having an actual float so the oil level is always the same as well as preheating it to 80-100 degrees.
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on November 05, 2017, 03:59:14 PM
Still waiting on the brass float, ordered from Amazon, fulfilled by Gatzies. Never heard of em, they suck, had my other stuff for a week before they even got around to shipping the float. Then to top it all off they shipped DHL, had experience with DHL before, they lost a part that took days and dozens of phone calls to find, found one of the last ones in North America, was shipped from Canada and they lost it. Had to buy literally the last one the salvage yard had left that was to be found anywhere in North America, six months later the original showed up via UPS, guess DHL was too ashamed to show up in our driveway since their mistake cost us weeks during harvest.

Only experience worse I’ve had with shipping was from the good ole tax subsidized USPS, bought an owners manual from California and they shipped it USPS, took five weeks to show up and it seen more of the USA than I have by time it finally got here.
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on November 08, 2017, 06:53:45 PM
Got it figured out, not sure why, but unless my oil is at least 80 degrees forget it. It does have the heater block that the siphon nozzle attaches to, however it is aluminum and the thermocouple measure block temperature, not actual oil temperature. Maybe cause my oil is mostly engine oil out of diesels with some hydraulic oil and gear oil mixed in. Maybe oil out of standard cars and trucks has more gas in it from ring blowby although I think it would evaporate away. Actually I think the big problem is my one uncle and his friends keep giving me oil they drain out of their Harleys, least bit cold and those don’t like to start either.

Have a heater built into my oil reservoir now that the float finally showed up, a consistent oil level, warm oil, and purging the oil line so it’s empty instead of full of cold oil has resulted in a 100% fire rate, most of the time within seconds once the oil reaches the nozzle, you can tell by listening to it when the oil gets there. Still waiting on a normally open 110v solenoid to show up, will wire that up so the air solenoid is on with the blower motor and have the two solenoids for the oil wired to the optional fuel terminal on the controller. Will program so the blower keeps running when it shuts off but the juice will be shut off to the oil solenoids. The normally closed will shut and cut the oil  supply off while the normal open will open with the absence of power and will allow the line to vent since it will still have air to the nozzle.

Need to get a better regulator on it, it may be a name brand, but it sucks. I expect a little creep of course when the solenoid shuts off, but even when running it may need adjusting a few times an hour. I even have another regulator ahead of it set to 25 lbs.
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on December 02, 2017, 10:56:47 PM
The purging of the oil line while sound in theory didn’t work so well in practice. No matter how long the purge, enough always settled so it had cold oil again. Also another issue with the digital Honeywell controller, if it sense a flame after the fire is supposed to be out, it goes into lockout mode. Thought about a relay to break the connection from the CAD cell but went another route instead.

Picked up a piece of 1 1/4” x 1 1/4”  aluminum bar. Drilled a 1/4” pilot hole slightly off center all the way thru in the bridgeport, then ran a 7/16” drill bit to within 1/2” of the end, tapped the one end out to 1/4 NPT. Drilled another hole in 3/8” to hold a ceramic cartridge heater. Flipped it over and drilled the end out for 1/8 NPT. The hole gets a immersion thermal couple. Then directly above the tip of where the thermal couple ended up I drilled another hole for 1/8” NPT, this gets screwed onto the close nipple that comes out of the bottom of the blast tube.

I thin adjusted my float tank so the oil just flows into the block but not up and out of it. Given the short nipple and the offset in the nozzle block it places my oil level 3” below the nozzle which is within the 2-6” recommended in the directions.

So, the oil flows into the block thru the 1/4” hose barb and thru the 7/16” hole for 4 1/2 inches, then makes a 90 degree turn to flow straight up into the blast tube. The last thing it sees when leaving the block is the thermal couple. I have a MyPin temperature controller running the cartridge heater, is just a 300 watt model. Temp is set for 110 degrees with the alarm output set at 90. When heating up when it hits 90 that closes the alarm contacts which completes the TT connection on the Honeywell controller on the burner, the PID controller that heats the nozzle block in the gun also has to reach its preset temperature to close those alarm contacts as the TT connection is also wired thru that one.

Still need a better regulator, I may go with a full size one instead of a mini. Like I said before I expect a little creep when off, but not up to 10 lbs. Air pressure on the nozzle is critical. 13 lbs gives me a 100% firing rate so far, 14 lbs maybe 80%, try 15 lbs and forget it.
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on December 05, 2017, 06:49:42 PM
Tweaked a tad more, lights even at 17 lbs pressure now. Was set at 15lbs but the regulator is crap.

Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on January 05, 2018, 09:29:56 PM
Picture of homemade blast tube and saved mounting flange. Some left over 1” rope for a gasket.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4647/24662019527_2dd9c09cc3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Dziice)IMG_2278 (https://flic.kr/p/Dziice) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr



Picture of insides of the box, not much room to work with. The SSR for the nozzle block can be seen behind the PID controller.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4597/24662006757_bc317e0205_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Dziep4)IMG_2279 (https://flic.kr/p/Dziep4) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr



Picture of solenoid and air adjustment. All openings except one are blocked off with either silicone or foil duct tape.


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4636/27753504179_13d9d8254a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JhtXSK)IMG_2280 (https://flic.kr/p/JhtXSK) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on January 05, 2018, 09:34:52 PM
Had to move the cad cell into the blast tube so it could see the fire well enough


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4733/39529919751_44222c40e7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23e8aWx)IMG_2281 (https://flic.kr/p/23e8aWx) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr


Picture of the aluminum reheater block I made. Cartridge leads and hose barb can be seen on the left with the immersion thermocouple on the right.


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4682/24661983337_9346d169fc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Dzi7rg)IMG_2282 (https://flic.kr/p/Dzi7rg) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr


Picture with the blast tube removed, you can see the relocated CAD cell and the preheater block attached to the fuel tube. Also note the homemade centering device and electrode holder.


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4727/24661977317_c4cb782610_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Dzi5Dt)IMG_2284 (https://flic.kr/p/Dzi5Dt) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr

Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on January 05, 2018, 09:48:28 PM
Another shot with the blast tube removed


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4693/24661959037_a07f053458_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DzhZdi)IMG_2285 (https://flic.kr/p/DzhZdi) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr


Shot from the rear when reassembled and powered up


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4691/38633605685_3a2c2fda49_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21RVjZK)IMG_2286 (https://flic.kr/p/21RVjZK) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr


A shot of the float tank. The other day I had an epiphany, why am I running my electric bill up even more with all these electric heaters when I have 450 gallons of hot water handy?? Bought a roll of 3/8” OD copper tubing and some bulk head fittings, ran a drill bit thru a standard compression to MPT fitting so the tubing would slide clear thru, also bored a 3/8” hole thru another aluminum block I had set up for a preheater block for the supply pump, will have one more in a larger reservoir that will feed a 33 micron hydraulic filter that will feed the float tank. Brought all three lines back to a set of T’s then ran those to a unused port on the back of the boiler, have a teeny little taco pump on back. Even when off the lineset is short enough the tubing never really gets cold or maybe some thermo siphoning is happening. Regardless, when the pump is plugged in oil in the float tank reaches 122 degrees in short order and the preheater block on the gun doesn’t call for juice anymore.


 (https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4692/38820549644_d700d02c6d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/229rsVs)IMG_2306 (https://flic.kr/p/229rsVs) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr

Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on January 06, 2018, 08:33:46 PM
A plasma cutter made short work of sleeving the door, blasted right thru the K-wool like it wasn’t even there.


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4636/38652327485_b155be5130_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21Tzhkp)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/21Tzhkp) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: BoilerHouse on January 07, 2018, 07:55:53 AM
Nice work Marty.  Looks like you are getting all the bugs worked out.  I am curious about a few things; Such as the cfm rating on your compressor, and how long it cycles for when the burner is lit?, The gph rating of the nozzle? - I did not see any specs for it on the website.  Also, did you need to adjust the burner air registers, and if so, how did you determine the setting?  In one of the photos, they appear to be blocked off, but that could be an optical delusion.

I volunteer with a small tourist steam locomotive.  We burn about 250 L of furnace oil per day.  On the rare days in which the steamer is down and we have the diesel locomotive in service, we consume about 15 L of diesel.  (So we can see why steam locomotives no longer roar across the country.)

Anyways, we are always looking to reduce costs, so I am following this thread with interest. 
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on January 07, 2018, 10:13:15 AM
According to CKBuners you only need a compressor that can put out a few CFM at most at 15 PSI. Mine is 17CFM at 175PSI and the compressor is mounted on a 60 gallon tank in another building with a 30 gallon mounted on the shop wall so with 90 gallons of tank the compressor doesn’t even notice when the oil burner is running. I have a old portable compressor on a 20 gallon tank (I think) and I’m gonna cut the wheels and handle off the tank and mount that over head at the burner and regulate that tank down to 70 psi or so then use a full size regulator to take it down to 15 PSI from there as i’m tired of the creep that seems to be inherent in all these mini regulators. I may have to do a bit of rewiring and add another compressor control, currently the compressor will only run when the shop lights are on. The previous one burned itself up when a line cracked and it tried to run all night at 100PSI.

The nozzle I’m using is rated at .80 GPH, all of the air opening are blocked off but one set of slots on the adjustable band. I went by a combination of what gave me the lowest readings on the CAD cell when lit then closed it a little at a time until I had a 100 percent successful firing rate. The insides of the combustion chamber is lined with a fine gray ash which is desirable. I also have a friend that works for a major HVAC contractor in the area and he said that the lowest reading on the CAD cell isn’t necessarily the cleanest burn so I think I found a happy medium.
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on January 11, 2018, 11:45:20 PM
Sometimes I just gotta be cute. Mini sidearm I made for under the large reservoir, oil comes out at around 105F so to flow thru the filter better, thru the NC ball valve then thru a 33 micron hydraulic filter to the float tank. Originally was going to use a 15 gallon barrel, couldn’t find any, as the plan was to bend a piece of copper tight enough to get it thru the large bung, todays copper tubing is crap, no matter what I did can’t even begin to get it that tight with out collapsing it, so a mini sidearm it is.


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4722/38935419944_1701eed42f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22jAcRS)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/22jAcRS) by Marty Lappin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/143335218@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Designing my Generation 2 waste oil boiler.
Post by: mlappin on April 18, 2018, 07:12:58 AM
All the wiring is finally done.

When on “Auto” mode only the Ranco that monitors the incoming water temp from the wood boiler is on, when temp drops to 157 the Ranco closes the circuit which then energizes the rest of the circuits.

When energized the Ranco on the waste oil boiler keeps the temp between 182-188. It also energizes the compressor control on the buffer tank, on at 30lbs, off at 50lbs. A five minute delay off timer keeps that circuit energized long enough to allow the compressor to come up to 160lbs to cut down on cycles. When energized the circuit also bypasses the differential controller so the pump between the waste oil boiler and the FPHX the wood boiler is hooked to runs continuously.

When on “Manual” setting only the Ranco on the waste oil boiler is energized and it keeps it at 182-188, especially helpful if it’s going to be a day of having the large shop door open taking equipment in and out all day.

Ran three full days on “Auto” awhile back last time spring was actually around with temps in the 60’s.