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Author Topic: solenoids cant overlook!!!  (Read 4186 times)

5050racing

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solenoids cant overlook!!!
« on: January 15, 2018, 07:43:14 PM »

Today boiler wasn't hitting temps like it should,ran for way more hrs of burn time not getting up to good temps,burnt the whole chamber in 12hrs 8* this am but up to 27* most of day.Would get to mid range and back n forth. worked late just got home looking things over opened box to solenoids and one of the 2 solenoids on bottom tube wasn't opening !!great have spares and changed it out and right back to 1200* temps i feel great now was thinking the wood that i just got into was higher moisture but not.Thats the second one in my 4th yr of running,not bad $25 part,i keep 2 on hand.   
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smithbr

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2018, 06:54:33 AM »

Interesting.  For a month, I've had several cool burns in a row, then one or more Stage 2/stage 3s, then right back to cool burns.  Haven't figured out what the problem might be.  Guess I'll take a look when it's in a demand cycle this morning, just in case.  Is there a way to get the furnace to lift either solenoid "on demand", like a diagnostic mode, or do we just have to stay on top of it to witness each valve lift?
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5050racing

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2018, 07:45:11 AM »

Pretty sure just to watch it in that mode,I'm thinking of cutting a hole in enclosure n glue clear plexiglass window?
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smithbr

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 09:46:56 AM »

Hmmm.  Twice the outside face of that box has been literally too hot to touch, due to coals and creosote blown back from the firebox.  Wouldn't want to provide more flammable material, just in case.  I suppose one could carefully install an actual sheet of glass.

Does anyone know if the driving circuit would tolerate applying 115 directly to the solenoid coil with a cheater cord?  If the circuit is solid state, this is risky.  If the circuit is a relay contact output, not a problem.
Otherwise, I'd prefer to actually put in a momentary SPDT that uses the drive signal from the controller normally, but applies 115V (scavenged from the utility plug) when I push the button.  Easy to do, now that I'm out of warranty.
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5050racing

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2018, 03:33:56 PM »

I have to look but I think they are 24volt let me look at the old one,I work on so many things I forget sometimes but think 24volts for sure!!!
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5050racing

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 03:36:58 PM »

That enclosure gets that hot?? Don't think mine does,will check that also,I really think you have something really going on with your boiler if that's hot? The rubber bots are for heat on the elbows but not that hot.The wiring in there so it shouldn't be that hot?
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smithbr

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 04:07:20 PM »

WHoops, yea, good point, they probably are 24V.  Sigh.  So, I need to pick up 24V from the control cable, and add the two SPDT pushbuttons for sure.  Ok.  Starting to get painful.  But I really would like to be able to check their function without disassembling the unit too far.  Sooo, I'll think about it.
Thanks, 5050, yet again.
smithbr
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boilerman

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 07:29:35 PM »

Your making this too hard. Simply open the back air box then open the front firebox loading door. You should see both of the secondary solenoids engage and open under power while that front door is open. Those solenoids run off 120V not 24V.  You can also ohm out a solenoid with a multimeter. A good solenoid tests between 15-30 ohms bad 14 or less, usually 1. Also if solenoid goes bad it will dead short and it will blow the 5 amp fuse or trip the 5 amp breaker/power switch. I think if you are getting that much heat and coals back into the airbox it sounds like it can't exhaust freely. A deep coal bed, debree stuck up in the slot under the air charge tube down into the reaction chamber, a deep pile of ash in the reaction chamber, build up in the rear exchangers, ash in the chimney tee, buildup in the chimney tee or maybe a collapsing inner chimney liner or plugged up spark arrestor? Has to be some restriction somewhere which would also reduce your reaction chamber burn temps shown on your chart as it slows the air flow through and out the chimney.
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smithbr

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2018, 08:17:41 PM »

Yep, prone to overthinking things.  Stems from not wanting to go outside in this ... weather.  Okay, we'll investigate; hopefully, the others seeing similar problems will do the same, and report back.
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5050racing

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2018, 04:41:44 AM »

Boiler man your lots of help but if door switch isn't working I don't think they will show open many things but most likely it's simple thing like I told him it most be a blockage somewhere inlet or in outlet
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boilerman

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2018, 07:49:03 PM »

I agree that it is most likely an air flow blockage issue. There was discussion as to if the solenoids actually have power coming to them and if they open. If the door switch is working "DO" will be displayed on Firestar and you can see the secondary solenoids/covers lifted in the air box even when the air box and farn running when the door is open. Another thing to check is the gap distance between the covers and elbows for the primary and secondary. I've found the secondary's should be set at the specs in the owners manual, while an extra 1/8 to 1/4"added to the gap on the primary seems to work very well.
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5050racing

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2018, 03:14:36 AM »

So to be sure the secondary air is the lower tub with 2 solenoids,
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boilerman

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Re: solenoids cant overlook!!!
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2018, 07:35:14 PM »

Correct the lower solenoids are the secondary's.
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