Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: Jon_E on September 01, 2018, 12:17:10 PM

Title: Blower fan
Post by: Jon_E on September 01, 2018, 12:17:10 PM
Been having some problems with my blower fan, it's been making a lot of noise over the past few months, especially on startup and shutdown of a cycle.  I think the bearings are shot but I can't be sure.  The fan motor spins silently if it is just spun up by hand.  The past couple days it has actually needed a "push" to get going, which is bad because I am not always around to do so.  I took everything apart this morning, cleaned the back chamber and all of the bits and pieces, took it all apart and wirebrushed it.  I put it back together and it started up but is still very loud. 

Has anyone else had problems with their fan?  I did some research and the fan is just an off-the-shelf Fasco blower motor, $150 or so, but I work in maintenance and have hundreds of fans and motors in my facility, and Fasco has proven to be straight crap.  I was wondering if anyone knew of an "or equal" motor that has the same mounting and specs and could be use in its' place.  If not, I'll just replace it and then keep the old one as an emergency replacement. 
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: E Yoder on September 01, 2018, 04:57:42 PM
I've used a Dayton 3M292 fan motor. I think you have to switch a plug to change the rotation but it matches up, same HP and RPM. Zoro has them for $76 and on eBay.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: mlappin on September 02, 2018, 07:17:56 AM
How old is your unit? They did add a duct thru the rear door to help improve motor cooling.

Even Dayton isn’t what it used to be, at one time if it said Dayton, it wasn’t imported, it cost more but was worth it.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: Jon_E on September 02, 2018, 12:08:52 PM
I ordered a Dayton 3M292 from Zoro on eBay.  Hopefully it will work.  Mine was installed Jan 2017 so it has the duct through the rear door.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: E Yoder on September 03, 2018, 09:02:43 AM
Should match right up. I'm pretty sure it comes with the plug set so it rotates the wrong way, you just flip it over and plug back together. The wire colors are different but its not hard to figure out.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: Jon_E on September 21, 2018, 06:50:03 AM
Finally installed my new Dayton blower fan in the G200 last night.  The old Fasco unit apparently wasn't quite ready to give it up, and lasted until yesterday morning before it finally just quit.  Took me two hours to do the installation, mostly because I had to disassemble everything three times.  First disassembly was getting the old motor out.  Second one was getting everything completely put back together and realizing that the new motor was about 3/16" longer than the old one and wouldn't fit properly.  Third time was because I fixed the fit problem but reinstalled the motor upside down on the plate and the power cord wouldn't reach.  Probably would be an hour or less if I had a clue. 

Anyway the new motor fired right up, nice and quiet, working the way it should.  I need to make sure that I don't open the smoke bypass in the middle of a hot burn cycle, because I am sure that is what smoked the bearings in the old fan and overheated everything.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: hoardac on September 21, 2018, 06:07:26 PM
What did you do to fix the motor being longer. I have the same one from zoro on the shelf of just in case parts. If there is something I could do to get it ready beforehand would be interested to know.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: E Yoder on September 22, 2018, 03:55:30 AM
Yes, I hadn't noticed the difference in length before. Good to know.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: Jon_E on September 24, 2018, 05:59:31 PM
What did you do to fix the motor being longer. I have the same one from zoro on the shelf of just in case parts. If there is something I could do to get it ready beforehand would be interested to know.

The motor has four threaded studs that are probably an 8-32 thread or similar, they hold the motor to the plate.  On the Fasco motor, threaded studs are part of the motor case.  The Dayton has two threaded studs in the case and two long through bolts that actually hold the motor together.  So all four pieces have two small nuts on the threads.  If you take one set of nuts off the threaded studs, the motor stays together but then it's just a hair too long unless you remove the second set of nuts.  If you take off the second set of nuts the motor will come apart if you're not careful.  So I had to remove the second set of nuts and actually through-bolt the motor to the plate while holding everything in place.  It's still just a hair too long but I was able to get the rear inlet box to fit.  I think this will only be an issue on the models that have the rear vent through the door.  Earlier models pre-2017 without the rear vent/tube may allow the Dayton to fit just fine.  The other option I had was to modify the vent box and that wasn't a good option for me unless I had no other choice.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on September 24, 2018, 07:11:44 PM
Did you leave the smoke bypass open a lot with the firebox door closed and the ash door open? I do that if I am low on coals and need to get the fire jump started again. I have a flue temp gauge and make sure that I don't go over 500 stack temp.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: Jon_E on September 25, 2018, 11:42:06 AM
Oh I know for sure I burned the old fan.  Melted the bearings.  I made the mistake of opening the smoke bypass and filling the firebox near the end of a full burn cycle.  The flames got up into the fan area and I could hear the fan start making noise and then abruptly shut down from overheating.   I make sure now to not feed it unless it is at the low end of a temperature cycle.   Some of the things that I was able to do with my old Central Boiler are not possible (make that - not too smart) to do with the G200.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: deew2525 on March 10, 2019, 08:07:27 AM
My G200 has only been running in the cold months since Oct 2017 and my Fasco D219 fan already failed. I had to replace it with a new one. They sure don't make things like they use to. Hope new one last longer and yes I had cleaned the fan in the off season.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on March 10, 2019, 03:54:06 PM
Fan bearings fail? If so that is a typical result of the smoke bypass being left open and spiking the flue temps causing bearing failure. My dealer burned up the fan bearings on my first fan. Been through 3 heating seasons now on the same fan with no issues being conscious of flue temps when using the bypass.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: deew2525 on March 11, 2019, 06:45:35 PM
So you're thinking that if I open the smoke bypass while the stove is in a full burn cycle the heat & flames are causing the fan motor to get too hot. I would think since the fan is pulling in fresh cool air that is going across the motor that would not be the case plus it should be blowing the flames up the flue and not toward the fan. But for now I'll take your advice and try to load the stove when it's not in a full burn cycle to get long life out of my new fan motor.  I am leaning more toward the lack of good quality of the Fasco motor but I'm no expert. Thanks for the advice.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on March 11, 2019, 08:44:14 PM
Not sure if you have pulled off your rear panel to clean above the hx tubes and got a chance to look at how the fan pulls the air through but it takes the full heat of what you are sending out of the stack. I have a flue gauge on my flue to monitor stacks temps and if you open that bypass during a cycle you can spike the flue temp over 500 in under 30 seconds. We have seen a lot of people chew those fan bearings up on the Facebook pages because they didn't realize what was happening when they opened the bypass during a cycle.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: mlappin on March 11, 2019, 10:23:47 PM
So you're thinking that if I open the smoke bypass while the stove is in a full burn cycle the heat & flames are causing the fan motor to get too hot. I would think since the fan is pulling in fresh cool air that is going across the motor that would not be the case plus it should be blowing the flames up the flue and not toward the fan. But for now I'll take your advice and try to load the stove when it's not in a full burn cycle to get long life out of my new fan motor.  I am leaning more toward the lack of good quality of the Fasco motor but I'm no expert. Thanks for the advice.

And where is it getting this cool fresh air? If you have any kind of fire in the top at all, exhaust temps can spike pretty quick with the bypass open.

3 years on my fasco fan motor so far.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: deew2525 on March 12, 2019, 06:36:37 PM
I thought that the stove pulled fresh air  in through the back door vent and pvc tube that surrounds the fan motor so if its 20 or 40  degrees outside it would be cool air wouldn't it? Looks like there should have been some mention of this in the Heatmaster owners manual. Good thing there is a web site like this with this info. I just don't wanna loose another fan motor. I had a Hardy stove 16 years and replaced the fan once! Sometimes in morning before work I have no choice but to load the stove in a burn cycle.  Again thanks for info.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: RSI on March 12, 2019, 08:55:48 PM
If you see flames going up into the bypass, close it. Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it.
If it is burned down to coals and in a heat cycle, I like to load better with the bypass closed anyway. When you rake the coals over the nozzle, you can easily tell if any of it is plugged with ash if it isn't glowing bright orange.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: mlappin on March 12, 2019, 09:08:50 PM
I thought that the stove pulled fresh air  in through the back door vent and pvc tube that surrounds the fan motor so if its 20 or 40  degrees outside it would be cool air wouldn't it? Looks like there should have been some mention of this in the Heatmaster owners manual. Good thing there is a web site like this with this info. I just don't wanna loose another fan motor. I had a Hardy stove 16 years and replaced the fan once! Sometimes in morning before work I have no choice but to load the stove in a burn cycle.  Again thanks for info.

The cool air from the rear is too cool the windings in the motor, doesn’t really have anyway to get to the bearings/bushings in the motor, so like RSI pointed out, if flames are getting sucked out the bypass temperatures can spike pretty quick.
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: schoppy on March 14, 2019, 10:19:11 PM
The cool/cold outside air through the rear vent does cool off the entire motor including the bearings as the entire motor is separated from the flue gas by the mounting plate. The problem is that high temps from the flue gas will transfer heat through the blower wheel and motor shaft to the inner bearing. This bearing receives more heat anyway during normal operation. This is why most high efficiency furnaces have gone to incorporating a cooling fan on the shaft just behind the inner bearing to cool it. I'm on my 3rd season and so far so good but I do have a backup if needed. 
Title: Re: Blower fan
Post by: slimjim on March 15, 2019, 04:09:00 AM
You are right Schoppy, the bearing cooling air is brought in through that retrofit air cooling tube that needed to be added because the air in the back of the boiler reaches and maintains 180 degrees f but the motor is rated for no more than 140 degrees f if I remember correctly. It seems that somebody didn’t think that one out to well!