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Author Topic: ready for some help with expansion  (Read 7904 times)

markpallen

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2017, 11:04:32 AM »


Are we giving too many options yet ? Chuckle.
There is a fine line between enough info to really help, and then a bit more makes mud of clear water. I havent reached the muddy water stage yet. lol
I was going to get this building operating and worry about the second garage in the future but then im thinking I may end up having to change everything to do the second one.
While Im plumbing the building ive been asking about, is there anything I should add or do now to make garage no 2 easier to plumb in the future? It has infloor as well and a second floor too.
Perhaps I should give a list of some things I have in case any of it spurs some ideas.
Grundfos pumps.....two 26-99's ,  one 15-42 and one 15-58. All were bought " in case" I may need them from classifieds.
Many feet of old style baseboard.
Three cast iron rads of various size
Two new, never used school type radiators with the slanted top
These were mostly bought at very low prices just incase I would need them. I have little money invested in any of it , so if its no use to me its not a huge concern.
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mlappin

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2017, 11:44:37 AM »

Depends, I mentioned radiators once to the wife and the look I got would freeze hell over, that was mild compared to the look I got when I mentioned how easy it would be to add baseboards to a few upstairs bedrooms.
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E Yoder

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2017, 01:15:51 PM »

That's funny, my wife loves the two cast radiators we have in the basement. They make wonderful clothes dryers.


To give advice on how to plumb for the second outbuilding it would be nice to have an overview on which directions the buildings are from the furnace and distances. My guess is you'll have to make some kind of supply and return manifolds on the furnace so each building can get full temp water. But if space in the back of the furnace is an issue then maybe a primary loop to the first outbuilding with a manifold to pump other directions might be easier.
Just not enough info to know quite what to say.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 01:38:17 PM by E Yoder »
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markpallen

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2017, 02:26:43 PM »

Mlappin what the missus says won't be a concern. I wear the pants in this house. ;D
Gee . For a second there I thought she was going to see what I wrote......
Seriously though I have full authority in the outbuildings. She uses the term " permission" but you know how it is.
E Yoder I tried to post a picture of my situation but can't for some reason. Basically my wood doctor is 125 feet from my house. Towards the house about 15 feet from the owb is building no 1. Further towards the house  another 20 ft is building no 2.
It would likely be easier to branch off the house and feed building no 2 , then no 1 , then return to the owb but the house lines are buried and have a huge deck now built on top of them. For that reason ,I'd just as soon leave them alone unless there is a compelling reason to change things.
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E Yoder

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2017, 03:16:17 PM »

So from what you are saying you would like to basically reroute the return line through the buildings... except it's buried. Correct? I wouldn't splice underground!

Since you have the rehau already buried from the furnace to the first building (I think?) I'd tee off before the house pump (to get full temp water) and pump a primary loop through both outbuildings, teeing off secondary loops for infloor, cast rads (which have to start and stop anyway) or whatever. You probably can catch the air handler coil(s) in the building(s) in that loop if they're not too big and strip off too much heat. If you don't want to run pipe to the second building you can extend it later as Pex is very easy to work with.

If you want to get fancy you could with several relays you could make the "outbuilding primary loop" pump come on only when the air handlers , infloor, etc are actually calling for heat. Basically you'd have one relay per "zone" sending the same 120v. power into that main pump that pushes the loop.
Or just let it run! That would be much easier.

Wondering what RSI and others think tho.
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RSI

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2017, 05:36:57 PM »

I am not sure if I missed it but I didn't see if either of the buildings are going to need antifreeze. Is the infloor heat going to have any chance of freezing?
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E Yoder

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2017, 06:41:11 PM »

Just thinking here....

If you wanted to do antifreeze in the buildings you probably could put a standpipe teed off the loop in the outbuildings. Would function the same as the fill pipe on the stove. Pump away from that point through a flat plate on the house return, then through the buildings and back to the standpipe. Just fill the standpipe with a water/glycol mix.
Then the house loop would need the bigger pump to supply enough flow for everything.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 06:59:42 PM by E Yoder »
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mlappin

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2017, 09:10:49 PM »

The wife was a air force brat and lived in more than one house that had the old cast iron radiators, seems being rentals the landlords never kept the boilers working very well and it was always cold in those house. Personally I like the cast iron ones in our local tavern, turn a chair then sit in it ninty degrees so you can lean your back right on em.
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slimjim

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2017, 03:49:55 AM »

We actually have 4 of them in our home, one of the large ones in the kitchen dries my insulated pants all winter!
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markpallen

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2017, 07:29:29 AM »

Yoder...nope. Definitely dont want to reroute anything that is buried. I only commented it would likely be easier from a pumping point of view.
I wasnt planning on glycol anywhere.I dont have it now and my house has been heated this way a dozen years. I just make darn sure the fire stays lit and if the power goes out I run a generator to keep the water circulating. This is my only heat source so a generator is always on standby incase of power outage.
Yoder you are correct in that the rehau is already buried between the owb and the building and also between buildings. I did this when the buildings were being built, knowing this day would come. Ive not heard of standpipes yet so I will do some reading to get educated on that possibility.
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E Yoder

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2017, 09:07:13 AM »

What I meant by a standpipe is just a vertical section of pipe teed off in one of the buildings to act as a small reservoir to fill with glycol. So scrap that idea.
I'd just pump direct off the stove outlet to the buildings.
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RSI

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2017, 09:29:47 AM »

Does the boiler not have 2 sets of connections? If it does, using them would be better than teeing off the house connections.
If it doesn't then tees on supply before pump and return is the next best option.
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E Yoder

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2017, 09:37:06 AM »

Does the boiler not have 2 sets of connections? If it does, using them would be better than teeing off the house connections.
If it doesn't then tees on supply before pump and return is the next best option.

 :post:
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markpallen

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2017, 03:32:10 PM »

Nope. Only one set of connections.
So are you saying to tee before the pump on the supply line , and another tee on the return just before it returns to the owb?
Rather than the two close tees on the existing return line we discussed previously?
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RSI

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Re: ready for some help with expansion
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2017, 04:06:06 PM »

Yes, that would be better. Otherwise you will have to increase the flow through the house which will just use more energy to pump and put more wear on the system.
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