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[heat550]

I was wondering If alot Guys are using shark bite on air heat ex changers ?  I have to install a 22x22 exchanger  1 inch in and out on top a furnace
and sharkbite would be better then heating up the exchanger any thoughts on them ?

Also has anyone tryed out the stainless steel double walled side arms 38inch  1 inch boiler ports ? 18,000 btu ?


I have lots of plumbing to do .

I have 20 year old taco 007 and 10 year old 011 I have had no troubles with any of them . but there older ones .
Whats most reliable Pumps today ?

  I have to install another system for family and its going to be a big job .
furnace and a coil and heat ex changer on top .. to make it more interesting furnace has bigger fan 2000 cfm so has big boost like box with filter that goes under the up draft furnace for cold air return . . going with 22x22 heat ex changer fits the hole best 3.5 thick . target 130,000 btus . Its a big house 3800 sqft 3 levels to heat. 42.5 pounds of oak at 20 % per hour when fans on only thing that's good its a well insulated home

Heat550

side note has anyone figured out how to plumb air heat exchanger so you pull it out during the summer months ? and
plumbings not a issue ... like use that blue semi radiator hose .. or keep pex long enough to flex that much ? Because
pulling air heat ex changer out for summer would be way less air drag .  any info be great . 

[shepherd boy]

 Sharkbites depend on an o-ring to seal. I am told that under high heat and with tension to one side the o-ring can flatten and cause it to leak. I'd feel a lot safer with a solder joint. You're not going to hurt the heat exchanger heating it up just to solder a fitting on it.
  I have done a job where at the request of the homeowner we put the heat exchanger on rails to pull it out but I don't think he ever did. We just left the pex lines long enough.   Too much air flow on the air conditioner coil will cause the condensate to be blown off the coil and cause it 'leak' in the furnace cabinet. Air conditioners are usually designed to run between .2 and .7 static pressure and a coil will add about .25 to that, unless you are running borderline you should have no problem leaving it in. If air flow has been increased with a bigger blower you may actually do it good. Wondering what ton coil is on that unit with a 2000cfm fan.
  The goal is to get aprox. 400cfm per ton on the air coil. You can run a considerably higher static pressure as long as you say in your boundaries of cfm flow.
 My feeling is, if the unit is performing good now you'll be good leaving it in.

[mlappin]

Far as pumps, running Grunfos here, I think I may be trying some of the ECM pumps from Armstrong, my electrical usage in the winter is killing me.

[E Yoder]

I would think 22x22 should be large enough for 2,000 cfm to get through without causing AC issues. If you choose to use sharkbites do not have side pressure as shepherd boy said. Soldering pex adapters on is definitely more reliable, get it good and clean and it's not difficult.

The 007 and 0011 are very different pumps. 007 is a fairly low pressure medium flow pump, 0011 is a high pressure high flow pump. Both have their place. That big 22x22 coil will need fairly decent flow with 2,000 cfm. Not sure what distance you're pumping or what size piping.
We've used a few Taco's and Grundfos with good success but we've used hundreds of B&G's with very few failures. Kind of a Ford/Chevy type of thing. A lot of pump failures I've seen are from poor quality water/corrosion or damage from cavitation, neither are the pumps fault.

Can't say on the sidearm, I use flat plates myself.

[mlappin]

If you absolutely want to remove it, then use one inch heater hose. The blue stuff like on a lot of semi’s is silicone heater hose, very reliable and very expensive. Regular ole black heater hose should be fine. Most failures with it isn’t from actual use but contamination from the outside like oil leaks, abrasion, etc. The wife’s Jeep is a 2004 model, doesn’t leak any oil, all original hoses that are fine yet. We have tractors that use standard hoses on em for oil coolers or just for a tank heater, bio-diesel eats those up quick if you have a seep or leak. Believe Slim uses heater hose on all his hookups at the stove to allow for heaving of the pad when it happens in his area, if it didn’t work well he wouldn’t use it.

[hondaracer2oo4]

+ on the regular car radiator hose. Got the idea from slim. I have it on y connections at the boiler pex to pumps. I had a failure last year but it was from tightening the clamp down to hard on the hose, it cut into the hose slightly causing a failure about midseason. The leak wasn't to bad but the low water cut off shut down the stove.

[RSI]

If you make the heat exchanger removable, you need to have some way to completely seal the opening where it goes in. If it is leaking air it will be much worse for the system than leaving it in there.

If you want to remove it, I would make a slot that it slides into and a cover that can be put on after it is removed. Using unions to you can just detach it and store it would probably be a lot better than having it hanging there with tons of slack hose.

If you do want to keep it attached, I would make a pocket for storing it on the furnace so the fins stay protected.

[heat550]

Thanks for the input . I will solder pex ends on . Thats been trouble free on older system I have also. Im thinking the issue will be getting air to other end of house. Its design with furnace closer to one end . That is what he was thinking with 2000 cfm fan.
He has new a 3 ton air conditioner and he keeps pretty cool in his house. I could go with the Blue radiator hose also on ex changer well see what he wants . The boilers 50 feet from his house attached garage pump will be there in garage and in to furnace room another 30 feet . Its total finished garage also. then to domestic water heat exchanger then to air exchanger on furnace and return will have smaller air ex changer in garage on the return line . Yes I will look at furnace Manuel hes got the mating A coil its big for a 3 ton  400 cfm per ton he will be on lower end of the fan speed . fan has 4 speeds settings 2000 1800 1600 1400 rpm I need to figure that out yet . His total boiler loop will be about 160 feet . All 1 inch lines  outside line pex al pex and inside will be vapor barrier pex the better stuff . Its a 200,000 btu boiler . Pump Size is a bit of a mystery yet . 011 taco would do it I think as its pretty much a straight shot . domestic exchanger and 22x22 air exchanger and 16x16 is the drag with little elbows as possible. 
this will be total heating and cooling and wood boiler install. Im just happy duct works not getting changed . fingers crossed.
Next level would be way to check static pressure and a Flow meter for boiler line so really know the pump flow rate I hate mystery's. do they make affordable flow meter to snap on the line yet . Last I checked I have to take out a loan to buy one .

Heat550

Sharkbites depend on an o-ring to seal. I am told that under high heat and with tension to one side the o-ring can flatten and cause it to leak. I'd feel a lot safer with a solder joint. You're not going to hurt the heat exchanger heating it up just to solder a fitting on it.
  I have done a job where at the request of the homeowner we put the heat exchanger on rails to pull it out but I don't think he ever did. We just left the pex lines long enough.   Too much air flow on the air conditioner coil will cause the condensate to be blown off the coil and cause it 'leak' in the furnace cabinet. Air conditioners are usually designed to run between .2 and .7 static pressure and a coil will add about .25 to that, unless you are running borderline you should have no problem leaving it in. If air flow has been increased with a bigger blower you may actually do it good. Wondering what ton coil is on that unit with a 2000cfm fan.
  The goal is to get aprox. 400cfm per ton on the air coil. You can run a considerably higher static pressure as long as you say in your boundaries of cfm flow.
 My feeling is, if the unit is performing good now you'll be good leaving it in.

[heat550]

Yes It will get interesting .. At first it seems you have all kinds a room to get in to stuff . But after install it will all be a tight fit .
unions and good drain system work also That is good thinking . another Idea might work is its going to be quit high where the air ex changer goes in maybe a slide out rail it sits on over head and slide door up to cover hole . I need to do more measuring .. thanks for input. 
Heat550

If you make the heat exchanger removable, you need to have some way to completely seal the opening where it goes in. If it is leaking air it will be much worse for the system than leaving it in there.

If you want to remove it, I would make a slot that it slides into and a cover that can be put on after it is removed. Using unions to you can just detach it and store it would probably be a lot better than having it hanging there with tons of slack hose.

If you do want to keep it attached, I would make a pocket for storing it on the furnace so the fins stay protected.

[heat550]

I have one of them electric meters plugin style I should see how much mine draw . on paper they say hardly nothing but might be different story 20 years later I will look in to them

Heat550

Far as pumps, running Grunfos here, I think I may be trying some of the ECM pumps from Armstrong, my electrical usage in the winter is killing me.

[heat550]

On the heatmor doors I use that blue hose never replaced a set yet . going on 4 years old stove and now 3 year on new stove .
only scary part they sure are soft when there HOT. person should put a protector on them so you don't bump them with big wood chunks . Ideas  are welcome .. like steel brade cover or coil spring style maybe or  just plastic wire wrap for 1 inch.

1978 van motorhome radiator hose blow out covered everything . 3 years later all rubber hose needed replacing everything that got wet when hose blow out it was like the antifreeze just ate in to rubber vacum lines . Vans it gets dam hot under them hoods in the mountains . But rubber wasn't as good in 1978.

Heat550

If you absolutely want to remove it, then use one inch heater hose. The blue stuff like on a lot of semi’s is silicone heater hose, very reliable and very expensive. Regular ole black heater hose should be fine. Most failures with it isn’t from actual use but contamination from the outside like oil leaks, abrasion, etc. The wife’s Jeep is a 2004 model, doesn’t leak any oil, all original hoses that are fine yet. We have tractors that use standard hoses on em for oil coolers or just for a tank heater, bio-diesel eats those up quick if you have a seep or leak. Believe Slim uses heater hose on all his hookups at the stove to allow for heaving of the pad when it happens in his area, if it didn’t work well he wouldn’t use it.

[shepherd boy]

 Good info there. Your 2000,1800, 1600 and 1400 are your cfm not rpm. Rpm will run at about 1000 to 1100 on high, but that is a non issue. 1400 cfm would be on the high side for a 3 ton in cooling mode, but with the addition of a water coil the static pressure would increase and slow the cfm down. However your existing duck will have some static suction on return and pressure on feed, but all in all you should have plenty of ramp up in that fan for a water coil left in. I'd leave the coil in and start on low in cooling and ramp it up in speeds and watch your condensate. If it starts to pull off the drain pan slow it down. With proper freon load, if the coil frosts up you need more speed 'air flow'. But you have a lot of parameter to work with. Your looking good, have at it!

[mlappin]

On the heatmor doors I use that blue hose never replaced a set yet . going on 4 years old stove and now 3 year on new stove .
only scary part they sure are soft when there HOT. person should put a protector on them so you don't bump them with big wood chunks . Ideas  are welcome .. like steel brade cover or coil spring style maybe or  just plastic wire wrap for 1 inch.

1978 van motorhome radiator hose blow out covered everything . 3 years later all rubber hose needed replacing everything that got wet when hose blow out it was like the antifreeze just ate in to rubber vacum lines . Vans it gets dam hot under them hoods in the mountains . But rubber wasn't as good in 1978.

Heat550

I was had a mechanic friend tell me that the composition of a black heater hose is different inside than outside, getting antifreeze on the outside of it is harder on em than having antifreeze flowing thru em.

[E Yoder]

0011 would have plenty of flow... 007 is a bit on the low end. There are other lower cost pumps with better head than a 007.

[heat550]

0011 would have plenty of flow... 007 is a bit on the low end. There are other lower cost pumps with better head than a 007.

Wild Idea Maybe put 2 pumps taco 007 in without check valves .  Would the water still flow in case one would stop .
Im sure there is a technical name for it   then pumps would Half both ways  50 ft to garage from boiler 60 feet to return pump and then 50 feet back to boiler .   Think I would get my 10 GPM  ( rough Guess )  in 160 feet total  ? 38 inch domestic water heater 22x22 air exchanger  then a 16x16 air ex changer . Might work better because its a open system . any ideas ?  Pumps are going in garage not in the  boiler . 

Heat550

I have   1-taco 007 in my shop zone 210 feet total run and 19x20 air ex changer . with only a 500 cfm fan .  32x32 shop
thats pulling 105 feet and pushing thru ex changer and out 105 feet . its a 20 year old pump . I have a 1200 cfm needs some work .