Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: Pennrungold on December 01, 2009, 02:32:49 PM

Title: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Pennrungold on December 01, 2009, 02:32:49 PM
I wanted to let folks know about a meeting being held tomorrow in Cranberry Pa.

The EQB and DEP are proposing significant new restrictions on the use of outdoor wood fired boilers. Many people rely on these boilers to affordably heat their homes and should not be subject to unwanted and unneeded regulation by the state. Local governments already have the authority to regulate these boilers if needed. If these state regulations are allowed to go through as-is, there's no telling what the Rendell administration will go after next. :bash:

Sorry about the last minute post.  Just heard about this.
Here is an article about the regs at GoErie.com

Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces (http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:lWke4KeyKjAJ:www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20091110/NEWS02/311109975+pa.+dep+wood+furnaces&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Dirtysailor on January 18, 2010, 12:22:32 PM
A little late to the game, but what was the outcome of the meeting?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Pennrungold on January 22, 2010, 02:57:19 PM
Sorry I can't tell you what happened.  I think the meeting was for public comment, not that they would really pay any attention to it.  I think it is required by law.  I am sure we will find out though soon enough.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: unaslob on January 23, 2010, 09:31:27 AM
this is concerning... I was wondering has anyone had similar problems in their area... i know alot of laws are being made all over but has anyone been faced with a retroactive law.  i didnt know they could enforce laws on prexisting stuff???
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Neal on March 06, 2010, 06:00:48 PM
Ohio EPA is reviewing some sort of restrictions as well.  One of the guidelines being considered was a grace period to get your wood furnace in compliance with emissions standards.  If not you would be required to shut it down or install one that was in compliance. 

This is still being drafted and has been for  the past 1-2 years.  1st comment period has passed

I hope you PA doesn't impose them either.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: juddspaintballs on March 06, 2010, 06:10:44 PM
I figure the workaround is that if you have shaker grates, you can burn coal (most of the restrictions are only on outdoor WOOD boilers) or building a shed around it making it an INDOOR wood boiler. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Dirtslinger on March 06, 2010, 11:03:26 PM
It all comes down to the oil/gas company losing money.That is the real problem.
And they think we are to dumb to figure that out.

If everybody went out and got a boiler they would pass the laws faster then you could get them installed.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Pennrungold on March 10, 2010, 07:54:09 PM
Here is url to a story of an owner being given the shaft.
 http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/use-of-wood-stoves-becomes-burning-issue-in-jefferson-twp-1.667493
I have heard rumor of the DEP easing up on their regulations.
Burn Baby, Burn!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: rosewood on March 10, 2010, 08:31:28 PM
thats the reason i dont want any neighbor to know i have a owb! as soon as they smell smoke , i'll be blamed.  even though its someone else. i read stories like this and have to wonder if these owners are victims or just stupid enough to buy and install one in subdivision or on a small lot with neighbors  close buy? then there are some who load up the furnace [a friend of mine] with crap that a nuclear reactor would have a hard time burning..and doesn't think thats a problem.i tell him its guys like him that ruin it for the rest of us. as the days get warmer in the 50s i am considering to shut off switch so it wont start during the day . it will still hold enough energy for the day ,and i can restart later in the evening. keep the monkeys off your back so they won't take your banannas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: juddspaintballs on March 10, 2010, 08:45:39 PM
taller chimney's go a long ways toward appeasing complaining neighbors
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Pennrungold on March 14, 2010, 10:29:48 AM
I live not too far from the Mahoning Furnace  Co. I must say they are supported by their neighbors. Especially a town a couple of miles down the road from them.  I think every one has their furnace in their back yard.  The houses are close together as it was a company town at one time.  They all must love the smell of wood burning.  It amazes me that they all seem to get along with each other.  They must be neighbors instead of people who live next door.  Country folk I surmize.

PS Why didn't I buy a Mahoning?  I didn't want to wait five months.
 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Pennrungold on March 23, 2010, 09:21:50 PM
I heard thru a reliable source that the DEP regulations push has been derailed for the time being.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Neal on March 27, 2010, 07:46:03 PM
Ohio EPA has come up with new proposed rules  I think they got hit with more comments than they could handle during the first comment period.  They have backed off considerably and decided to let the local communities regulate them and only regulate those burning the hazourdous stuff.  Attachments for your reading pleasure.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Ridgekid on November 17, 2011, 11:57:49 AM
FYI- PA did pass the "new Regulations" for OWB's. Effective May 31, 2011 only a Phase II can be purchased in PA. Also known as a gasifier.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: oldchenowth on November 19, 2011, 06:28:08 AM
The old "village" I used to live started this crap.  I saw this coming even at the State level too.  You can have a firplace that smokes ten times more and that is ok, but not an OWB.  I bit the bullet and got a gasifier just to avoid some of this.  I hope they do check mine, it smokes for about 60 - 120 seconds and burns clear until the rest of the burn cycle.  Even got my scepticle neighbor to start considering one, because he rarely smells mine
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Ridgekid on November 19, 2011, 08:45:27 AM
Mine isn't a gasifier. Average burn time is 15 minutes. Yesterday I burned 8x which equates to 120 minutes of smoke. Now compare that to my chimney that would of smoked 24 hours. Too many regulations. Someone's got the oil companies in their pockets, and I bet it's the EPA.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Scott7m on November 19, 2011, 11:14:47 AM
Oil companies?  Why do you people think it's always oil oil oil!  How about the simple fact of the matter that the big liberal push in our country is that the average person isn't smart enough to take care of themselves and they were sent to save us all from ourselves! 

These tree bugger types and such are assuming how smart they are because of the liberal environment our schools have became.  Once again, they feel smarter and entitled to save us from ourselves. When in fact they know very little about any of the true science and data behind all of it. 

They can't seem to understand that burning wood in a good owb doesn't produce anymore pollution than if the tree were allowed to lay in the woods and rot.  Wood is "carbon neutral" and produces the same amount of gas whether rotting or burning.  Only thing they can see is that a tree was harmed and smoke coming from a chimney.  I for one use a lot of wood that would normally be wasted.  Trees that are damaged from storms, lightning, bugs, and cleaning up around the property.   Wood is a truly renewable resource we should try to take advantage of.  For those nuts in Washington and the epa to have the right to affect the way I heat my home really shows how govt is going to far! 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: TLuckoski on November 19, 2011, 01:47:35 PM
Amen I agree with you 100%. Nothing more than college educated idiots running this country.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Bull on November 19, 2011, 09:20:36 PM
cooch has it right, it is not the dems or the repbs is goes higher than that..............
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Scott7m on November 20, 2011, 07:28:17 AM
Yes bull he is right to a point, dem / rep, I don't care.  But the I'm smarter than you because I have a slip of paper mentality has gone to far.   I see folks who are "engineers" all the time that couldnt build a fire. 

You go into any factory in America still in biz and you'll see workers who kmow how to do there job.  Then you'll probably sees bunch of bosses who were hired in because they knew someone or had some pull, and they'll know nothing about what's going on.  You could pull the avg guy off the line and the boss wouldn't know how to even start to do his work. 

How about these occupy wall street folks?  No two of them can give you the same answer to what it is there protesting, its a circus! 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: beeman on November 20, 2011, 10:39:12 AM
shhh, shhh, shhh you know it is all a conspiracy , they are watching all of us look out for the black helicopter :bag:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: MattyNH on November 20, 2011, 07:57:05 PM
EPA and OIL and I will say some abuse..Is why I think there are regulations of these boilers...Oil always wins...Look at what your paying at the pump or the bill on your door knob... Oil and the Union killed the auto industry..But us tax payers bailed them out...If  heating oil and gas was $.99 a gallon still...This web sight wouldn't even exist.. When the small guy gets away from the sky rocketing oil...Hmm all of a sudden new laws..OWB's could put the local oil guy out if everyone had owb's..Keep the local logger busy....Crazy when the  oil companys rave about huge record profits..And the small guy struggles..
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Scott7m on November 20, 2011, 09:25:50 PM
I think a lot of folks from the north would be amazed how many ppl have never heard of "heating oil". Never seen anyone use it around here.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Bull on November 21, 2011, 06:02:21 AM
Total electric here and wood, to far out for natural gas and LP cost to much. Never used oil but it is available.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Scott7m on November 21, 2011, 07:24:03 AM
Yea it's all electric here or propane.  No natural gas to speak of nd never seen anyone use heating oil
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Ridgekid on November 21, 2011, 07:54:28 AM
Total electric here too. (Heat pump-or should i call it my AC unit now?)  :thumbup:

My son was on heating oil which started this search for alternate heat. He was on a budget plan. He just moved in July 2010. I think it was $118/month. Then the phone call from the "oil man" in February. Due to rising costs we'll need to raise your monthly plan to $188 month.  OK, he understood. Then they called the next day and said they miscalculated. Sorry, we meant $288/ month. Ridiculous! He's only heating 950 sq ft. And thus his purchase of the CL4030.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: rhugg on November 21, 2011, 09:01:18 AM
I have a different take on it being in management.  It is not my job to run a machine but I could learn just like I can put in my own OWB.  Furthermore companies are in business to make $ and if you hadn't noticed, in the last 40 years we have international competition.  In China they get paid nothing, have no EPA, no OSHA, and no union.  It is tough competing with them and our politicians keep making it harder and then they wine that bad American businesses are sending jobs overseas.  They need to take responsibility.  It is no secret that this administration is anti-business and has gone after, via the EPA, anything with at smokestack.

But back on topic, the problem is that OWB's smoke and people will put them within 50' of the neighbors.  You can not regulate ignorance.  I do not believe that any, even the gasifiers, produce no smoke when newly loaded or off cycle.  So in typical fashion this is more drivven by the OWB manufacturers to specify out the competition.  The result will be that 3-4 companies survive the regulation/testing costs and prices will go up while choices go down.

If you think the oil companies give a hoot about OWB's you have been watching too much NBC  or listening to too many teleprompter speeches.

JMO, sorry for the rant but I believe in private property rights and I hate being told that I can't cut down a tree, have a closeline, have a satelite dish, or keep a junk car on my own property.  But as you know, good fences make good neighbors (or acreage) and since smoke doesn't obey fences and we can't legislate away ignorance the result will be that Central Boiler and a few others will be the only options available in PA. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: PatrickfromPA on December 25, 2011, 07:19:05 PM
hey guys, i got mine in under the epa wire and grandfathered in the law so there is nothing they can do to me. However my highly educated neighbors who are not afraid to admit to anyone there wall of diploma's between the two of them. Tried everything to get the county and state to shut me down. Soooo that didn't work. Nothing that my over educated neighbors can do. so now he hired a bobcat and pushed his lawn trash and debris into my stream.  Good thing for I phones. now the EPA and DEP is all over his ass for dumping into a stream.  the fines are in the 10's of thousands.  I still laugh about it to myself when i see him outside raking leaves. by the way he is 750 ft from my stove. I LOVE living close to super educated professional students.  THEY IS SOME REAL SMART ONES AROUND HERE.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: artbaldoni on December 26, 2011, 07:25:21 AM
I really enjoy reading all the stereotype BS that is on this site and others like it. Labor or management, high school dropout or PhD., it doesn't really matter. There are rules we all need to live by. Laws of nature, The Ten Commandments, Love your neighbor, the golden rule, natural selection, etc.. All the laws belched out by the government are nothing more than self serving ways to put money into the pocket of someone who is already rich or some special interest group. I don't want to get one over on anybody or the government. I just want to live my life and try to make some sense of how my tax dollars get used. If I put in an OWB and it smokes out the neighbor its my fault. I should have been smarter, so now I should do the right thing and remove it. If my boiler was already there and somebody decides to move in next door they should have been smarter and need to put up with the smoke. How hard is that?

Ok, I'm ranted out...BTW did everybody enjoy Christmas?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: MTJAG on December 26, 2011, 03:06:17 PM
Unfortunately, America is now one of the most regulated "free" industrial countries in the world.  There is certainly a need for laws in society but throughout recorded history, governments continue to regulate away from order and toward the benefit of those in power.  With the passage of NDAA (The National Defense Authorization Act) before Christmas, we now face a government that can avoid the  Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment and Habeas Corpus to detain indefinitely any US citizen that is suspected a terrorist.  No proof is needed.... 
So, we have bigger issues with our government than the EPA, FDA or any other regulatory agency.  If we don't get off our couches and stop the all out assault on our Constitution and Bill of Rights, we will soon find ourselves on the wrong end of the law.  And if you really want to get worked up, do a search for COG (Continuity of Government) to see what our government has in store for us in case of a national emergency.
We are not without hope, but it takes courage to stand up for what is right and what is right is the Constitution of the United States this country was founded upon.  Every elected official has taken an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and practically everyone of them in the past forty years has broken that oath of office.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania proposes regulations for outside wood furnaces
Post by: Bondo on December 30, 2011, 09:10:24 AM
It all comes down to the oil/gas company losing money.That is the real problem.
And they think we are to dumb to figure that out.

If everybody went out and got a boiler they would pass the laws faster then you could get them installed.

Ayuh,...   Considering that Government makes more money on every gallon of oil than Everybody else,...

I think yer blame is misplaced....

NY passed their new Rules last year,...
Luckily, there not being enforced,....                               Yet...   ::)

What the legislature refused to do, the Progressive Liberals in the DEC did by rule making, circumventing my elected officials...