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Author Topic: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine  (Read 71861 times)

NaturallyAspirated

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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #180 on: April 22, 2014, 12:33:02 PM »

Beef, it's what's for dinner!
Darn tootin!

Neal
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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #181 on: April 22, 2014, 12:37:13 PM »

17 TRILLION in debt, where would you like to stop KNEEL
I would have stopped decades ago.  The social and military welfare is gigantically out of control.

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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #182 on: April 22, 2014, 12:54:21 PM »

Cow fart studies are what is out of control while that money is being spent our infrastructure is getting worse everyday, would it kill someone to spend that money on roads cause that would be excellent! And Neal no offense but I don't think anyone believes you are Libertarian.
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NaturallyAspirated

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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #183 on: April 22, 2014, 01:06:31 PM »

Your post is complete and udder crap.

To you perhaps,,, but so is Bovine Flatulent Global Warming studies to me and others who think this is an utter waste of taxpayer money.

BTW.... I do not know if you actually intended for your post to be such an awesome play on words, I must commend you on using the word "udder" (the baggy mammary gland on a bovine/cow) along with the word "crap" (considering that are basically talking about cow farts).  If not, I think you mean "utter crap."  :thumbup:

1.  It makes perfect scientific sense to study all causes of the warming, cow farts included.  Humans have domesticated massive amounts of cows.  Methane is a known GHG, and the amount that the domestication of livestock impacts our climate is certainly a legitimate study topic.  You are being highly ignorant on this issue.

I hardly believe I am ignorant on this issue but hey, I'll just say "whatever"  ::) on that one. 

Over the lifetime of the earth, there were and have been far more animals on the planet farting away for many centuries and I am certain it will continue.  And increase in domestic livestock levels and their associated flatulent methane output levels have certainly been negated by man's reduction (and elimination in some cases) of certain animal species.  I have to believe that man's impact has caused a significant decrease in the global population levels of elephants and hippos (most of the larger mammals) has proportionately decreased the amount of flatulent methane produced by former herd levels and compensated for by cow flatulent methane levels. 

In short, a wash... but the point is that it is a waste of taxpayer money.... much of which is spent anyway by global warming-supporting politicians protecting their own interests, corporate "green" company kickbacks (do you want to hear the Solydra story again?) and misguided belief systems over that of their core constituencies.  Those politicians ARE NOT SCIENTISTS and simply use the global warming lie to exploit money and political favors from corporations and the other members of the federal government.  Same game that has been going on for decades.... even longer than global warming discussions.  Call me all the words you wish but I tend to like to think my taxpaye dollars, your taxpayer dollars, and everyone else's taxpayer dollars are quite a bit better spent on simple life necessities: food, clothing, shelter, heat (not everyone has these you know and no global warming study is ever going to help those in need of those basic necessities).

2.  Yes, sophisticated understanding, that comes from continued scientific discoveries, made by studying (cow farts included).  Again, you are showing a large amount of ignorance if you think our understanding of the climate is not more sophisticated than in Roman times.  Get a freeking clue dude.

I will take that one as I was too sloppy with my words previously.  :thumbup: Yes... data collection and technology to collect said data are indeed more sophisticated.  Bravo!

The "understanding of the climate" is not more sophisticated... it is simply based on making more connections as to what influences what on the planet and the mechanisms by which that is understood to be occuring.  If that is"sophistication of understanding" to you, so be it.  I view it more as seeing what has always been there but our eyes and minds were not processing what is truly already there.

3. You are 100% incorrect in your statement that the data gathered over the last 100 years (and the past 30+ for high resolution) is estimates.  That is absolutely wrong.  It is directly measured data.

After reading my previous post, I can understand how you interpreted my previous statement.  The "last 130-year data" (post Industrial Revolution time frame to present, generally speaking) has been measured more accurately and yes, in some cases, direct measurements.  My point with all of my "...blathering about earth and its age" is that what we have measured in the last 130 or so years cannot be easily extrapolated back into pre-Industrial Revolution temperature and global climate data!  No one knows how hot the earth actually was when it was forming, solidifying, or what species of fruit Adam and Eve were eating.  You have a VERY small data set for declaring "fact" about global warming since the majority of the data wasn't (and can no longer be) "collected."  Plain and simple.

Obviously you support federal spending on these global warming studies and many of us here at OWBI.com do not.  Support/believe what you wish but again, you have a small pail of facts in search of a problem statement.  I disagree that global warming is indeed the problem statement.  Pretty simple.

4.  Your blathering about earth and it's age, and man somehow destroying shows how out to lunch you are.  Climate change is not about man destroying the earth, that isn't going to happen.  It is about how much man's impact is absorbed by the planet and how the natural cycles and processes of the planet deal with man's influence.  Neal

You support Bovine Flatulent Global warming studies and I am out to lunch!??  :o  Wowser!

According to YOUR belief in the global warming theory(-ies), man is destroying the earth.  It is one of the underlying themes of the whole pseudo-warming issue.  Somehow all of this cow-farting methane and carbon dioxide-producing internal combustion processes are "killing the earth." 

Your pseudo-theory supporters insist that somehow, every property-destroying typhoon, Hurricane Sandy, tornado in the midwest, flood, earthquake tremor, record high temperature recorded, extinction of the Golden Toad, polar ice cap shrinking 3 millimeter fluctuation of a given location's sea level, and on and on and on and on is all do to global warming and climate change.  These events do indeed destroy the earth.  Buildings collapseCrock-O-Chit,,, plain and simple.  The alarmists supporting climate change support it for that very reason (they believe it is slowly killing the planet and all of its inhabitants). 

Destruction and creation are natural phenomena but somehow you global warming guys think that man is not part of the earth's natural evolutionary process?  We humans are animals too,,,, and we have been farting since we existed here.  But I am not going to say my butt methane is creating a global phenomenon.

Indeed it was.  Glad you caught it.   :thumbup:

You are indeed being ignorant if you think that valid research on our climate is a waste of money.

Our understanding of the climate is indeed more sophisticated.  With what we have learned and our use of technology is it quite clear that is the case.  You are trying to be obtuse with silly ambiguous descriptions. 

This is why we have proxy reconstruction of the planet's temperature, which the scientific community gives credence to.  It is actually quite easy to extrapolate the proxy data and meld it with instrumental records.  It isn't a very complicated issue.

I do support federal funding on climate research, there is much we do not yet know or understand about the climate.  It is quite easy to see it is changing, and we need to educate ourselves on that change.  I understand that many here wish to remain ignorant and uneducated on this topic, however our society, thankfully has a better perspective than that.  I believe in the factual data, and well vetted scientific consensus. If people here wish to remain ignorant, and have a conniption fit over cow farts and disregard data and the scientific community that is their prerogative as well.

I support educating ourselves.  Yes you are indeed out to lunch.   No, according to my belief man has an impact on the climate, which is changing the conditions to which we are accustomed.  I have never said that we are destroying the earth (and have actually said we are not if you bothered to pay attention).  This is not pseudo  theory, it is straight theory.  You are projecting my beliefs or agreements with what you stated, when I have never done so.  Your assumptions are off base and inaccurate.  I have stated this to you before, yet you continue down this ignorant road of stubbornness.    You are continually trying to associate what I believe (per second sentence in this paragraph) with some radical world ending beliefs.  That simply is inaccurate and idiotic. 

No one has said that creation and destruction isn't part of the earth's natural processes, however you continue to insinuate that man doesn't have any impact on earth's natural processes, and that, as history has shown is quite is a foolhardy belief.  While your farts may be an insignificant variable in the climate other activities and process which you are part of have a much more significant impact.

Neal
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NaturallyAspirated

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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #184 on: April 22, 2014, 01:11:19 PM »

Cow fart studies are what is out of control while that money is being spent our infrastructure is getting worse everyday, would it kill someone to spend that money on roads cause that would be excellent! And Neal no offense but I don't think anyone believes you are Libertarian.
Cow fart studies are an insignificant drop in the bucket in what is out of control, don't be silly.

I can imagine that, many seem all to eager to classify me as something I'm not. 

Neal
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Sloppy_Snood

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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #185 on: April 22, 2014, 01:51:48 PM »

Cow fart studies are an insignificant drop in the bucket in what is out of control, don't be silly.

I can imagine that, many seem all to eager to classify me as something I'm not.  Neal

With all due respect, you've clearly classified yourself.  :)
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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #186 on: April 22, 2014, 02:27:27 PM »

A TRUE libertarian does not fund his pet projects in Maine with stolen tax dollars from Florida, pet projects such as yours are simply a money and power grab from the fed govt to choose the winners, again you did not answer me, how much of your personal money do you spend that I do not to promote your agenda, if you choose to support the money and power grab then do it locally with your own dam money!!!!!
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NaturallyAspirated

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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #187 on: April 22, 2014, 02:33:57 PM »

A TRUE libertarian does not fund his pet projects in Maine with stolen tax dollars from Florida, pet projects such as yours are simply a money and power grab from the fed govt to choose the winners, again you did not answer me, how much of your personal money do you spend that I do not to promote your agenda, if you choose to support the money and power grab then do it locally with your own dam money!!!!!
There are many types of true libertarians, it simply isn't limited to the small scope you put forth. 

Also, this isn't my pet project, it is the pet project of all citizens.

It would be a percentage of how much more or less I pay in taxes.

Neal

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NaturallyAspirated

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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #188 on: April 22, 2014, 02:35:30 PM »

Cow fart studies are an insignificant drop in the bucket in what is out of control, don't be silly.

I can imagine that, many seem all to eager to classify me as something I'm not.  Neal

With all due respect, you've clearly classified yourself.  :)
I know, I stated that that already, or more specifically most closely align with the Libertarian viewpoint.

Neal
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slimjim

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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #189 on: April 22, 2014, 02:38:09 PM »

NOT MY PET PROJECT, my pet project is to leave my children with less debt and more LIBERTY than I had given to me, STOP THE SPENDING NOW!!!!! Are you saying that because I refuse to join in that I'm not a true citizen?
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NaturallyAspirated

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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #190 on: April 22, 2014, 02:40:06 PM »

NOT MY PET PROJECT, my pet project is to leave my children with less debt and more LIBERTY than I had given to me, STOP THE SPENDING NOW!!!!! Are you saying that because I refuse to join in that I'm not a true citizen?
It is indeed your pet project, it is all of our's as a pet project.

I share that sentiment.

I also agree to stop wasteful spending.

Refuse to join what?

Neal
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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #191 on: April 22, 2014, 02:42:52 PM »

I also agree to stop wasteful spending.

...but agrees with bovine flatulence study subsidies?  ::) :bash:

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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #192 on: April 22, 2014, 02:57:07 PM »

I give up, once a socialist always a socialist, he more than likely has no young ones to be concerned about anyway, KNEEL why not check out china, perhaps they are more free with their hard earned money and they can save the world with you
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NaturallyAspirated

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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #193 on: April 22, 2014, 03:00:16 PM »

I also agree to stop wasteful spending.

...but agrees with bovine flatulence study subsidies?  ::) :bash:

"....these are not the droids you are looking for...."
If they are a present a serious and valid perspective yes.

Cow fart studies are not the spending you are looking for if you want to turn this country around debt wise.

Neal
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Re: our wood stoves are horrible but epa thinks this is fine
« Reply #194 on: April 22, 2014, 03:06:05 PM »

That is just it, all yes all wasteful spending must stop or this nation is doomed, your pet project is just one of the millions that need to be pulled from the teet screaming.
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