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 81 
 on: December 16, 2021, 10:24:40 PM 
Started by MarkP - Last post by RSI
Those infrared thermometers never seem to work on pipes.
Can you hold your hand on the line at the heat exchanger? If you can keep your hand on it at all you probably are not near 180. Can you feel a big temperature difference between supply and return pipes?

 82 
 on: December 16, 2021, 07:37:36 AM 
Started by MarkP - Last post by MarkP
I stopped at Harbor Freight Tools yesterday and bought a infrared thermometer.  I'm not sure how accurate they are, but they claim to be */- 1 degree.  I went under the house and reversed the lines on the heat exchanger.  Heat goes in the top, and out the bottom now, but that made it going in the port closest to the furnace fan.  I let it circulate about 5 minutes, and checked temperatures.  I have the boiler set on 180 degrees now, but using the infrared thermometer, the hottest part of the back of the boiler, pump, lines, etc, was 155 degrees.  I have an Emerson digital aquastat on the boiler, and I expected it to be fairly accurate.  Could it be 25 degrees less than water temperature, being exposed to outside air?  When I went under the house to check the temperate at the heat exchanger, it shows 98 degrees on any copper surface, and the pex tubing was indicating 130 degrees.  Maybe getting a reflection from the copper causing it to read wrong??  I'm more confused now than ever.  I'll try it again tonight with a Snap On thermometer.  The air temperature coming out of the registers in the house was 110 degrees, measured with a regular thermometer that uses a liquid inside a tube.  I'm not sure if they still use mercury or not, but anyways....  Assuming that the thermometer is "somewhat accurate", that is a huge drop from the boiler to the HE.  What can cause such a drop?  I have 6" -12" of fiberglass insulation around the boiler, so I'm sure it's getting little to no heat loss there.  We had a snow last week, and it didn't melt the snow off the top of the boiler.

When I ran the lines, I used coils of pex, and used foam sleeves on each, and all joints are taped.  Probably not the best way to insulate, but that's what I went with.  I already had a 6 inch pipe underground, as I had used this in the past with a different boiler.  I was able to slide the new pex inside the 6" pipe.  After I sold my last boiler, I kept the open ends of the 6" pipes covered.  If rain water had gotten inside the pipe underground, could this cause a large drop in temperature.  No evidence that it has water in it, but I'm grasping at straws now.   We are having above normal temperatures now, so it's not a good test of heating the home now, but it is to drop this weekend.

I've never had any issues with the last couple boilers I've had, and this one is testing me.   And people ask me why I drink....... :bash:

 83 
 on: December 15, 2021, 04:15:22 PM 
Started by MarkP - Last post by RSI
Is the supply pipe at the heat exchanger as hot as the boiler? If so, how much cooler is the return out of the heat exchanger?
Do you have the water flowing opposite of the airflow as mentioned by Shepherd Boy?
Do you hear and noise in the heat exchanger? If so, try closing a valve on the return line and open back up instantly. Usually that will purge trapped air. If you hear air gurgle out then repeat till there is no more air.

 84 
 on: December 15, 2021, 09:34:53 AM 
Started by MarkP - Last post by shepherd boy
Don't see where that would be a problem. water should go in the port furthest from the air handler and return from the port closet to the air handler. putting a 'v' in the duck is fine. Unless I'm not understanding you.

 85 
 on: December 15, 2021, 05:41:07 AM 
Started by MarkP - Last post by MarkP
The heat exchanger is mounted vertically, in the ductwork, and the ductwork is running horizontally across the bottom of the floor joists.  That shouldn't be an issue, EXCEPT.... I have a section of ductwork broke to accept the heat exchanger.  The bottom of the ductwork is expanded down to fit the heat exchanger into the ductwork.  It could possibly cause a disruption in the airflow where it goes down into the area that is extended.  I could see where the hottest area, the bottom, isn't getting the direct air flow like the top is.  Never gave that a thought.  Easy swap.  I'll give that a try tomorrow.  I appreciate the suggestion!! 

 86 
 on: December 14, 2021, 06:42:59 PM 
Started by MarkP - Last post by shepherd boy
If your air is flowing up you want your water flowing down.  In at top out at bottom.so your air hits the hottest water as it leaves the coil.

 87 
 on: December 14, 2021, 06:31:52 PM 
Started by MarkP - Last post by MarkP
I'm not sure of the water temperature at the coil, but I'll check tomorrow.  What is meant by "reverse water flow to air flow at coil"??  I have the water going in the bottom of the coil.  I have a friend that is a CB dealer, and he told this is the preferred inlet.   I'll get the fan speed up to "medium" speed on the PC board.  Not sure if the stove can keep 170 at the coil for an extended period of time or not.  I checked it yesterday at the registers, and at 25 minutes, air temperature had dropped an average of 3 degrees at all the registers. 

Also.. the ductwork and all piping, including the heat exchanger are in an unheated crawlspace.  I have foam tubes on the 1" plastic, but the  copper of the heat exchanger is open to the crawlspace atmosphere.  May be a good idea to insulate that as well. Easily done.

I appreciate everyone's input.  I'll keep you posted! 

 88 
 on: December 14, 2021, 05:36:03 PM 
Started by MarkP - Last post by shepherd boy
Definitely enough pump. What temp is the water coming to the house? Not boiler temp but actual water temp at the coil. Reverse water flow to air flow at coil? Yes, get the fan speed up but if it goes to high and stays on high should work.  gallons of water in stove means little, can the stove maintain 170 at the heat exchanger during a long pull.

 89 
 on: December 14, 2021, 07:48:50 AM 
Started by MarkP - Last post by MarkP
Yesterday, I swapped the pumps on the boiler.  I put the 007 on the very short run (30 total feet) to the garage, and what I thought was a 009, turned out to be a 011, to the 200 foot run to the house.  As for the house, it has improved with the pump swap, but it's still not where I think it should be.  We had a 25 degree night, and it kept up through the night, but if I want to move it up a couple degrees, it has a hard time, and lengthy run time, reaching the new set point.  I kept it at 71 in the night, and this morning, I changed the set point to 73, and it struggled to get there.  Again.. much better than it was, but not quite what I expected.  Bottom line... I haven't fired the propane furnace up since I swapped pumps!!   :thumbup:

My thoughts are going to 2 things:

1)    The house heat exchanger is 12" X 15" and rated at 72,000 BTUs.  The one I had used about 5 years ago, with a different boiler, was 130,000 BTU,  Is the current heat exchanger adequate???

2)    I have a 2 stage ArcoAire furnace/AC, and the fan is set initially to the lowest speed.  Minimal air movement.  Once the furnace kicks into the 2nd stage, it goes to a high fan speed.  On low, you can't
       hear it run.  I need to check, but I think it has the capability to run at a medium speed on start up, instead of low, but it can't be controlled through the thermostat.  I would need to make that change
       on the PC board inside the furnace.  Possibly a higher fan speed initially would make a quicker increase in temperature??

Your thoughts......
 

 90 
 on: December 12, 2021, 04:45:09 PM 
Started by MarkP - Last post by MarkP
Total round trip to the house and back is 200 feet exactly.  I've had the OWB off all day, and was using the furnace.  I just changed it to boiler, and the heat coming from the registers was 95-105 degrees, with the higher temperature being the registers, closest to the heat exchanger.  It brought the temperature up 2 degrees very quickly.  It seemed the longer it ran, the cooler the temperature got. Even by turning it off, it took quite a while for the heat exchanger to get hot again.  This makes me think as RSI stated, that the 007 isn't strong enough to keep the heat exchanger supplied with hot water.  Today was my family Christmas dinner, so I didn't get the chance to swap pumps yet.  I think the flanges are the same size, so it is a quick and easy swap.  I'll get it done tomorrow morning and report back. 

Mark

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