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Author Topic: Water temp.  (Read 15741 times)

Roger2561

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Water temp.
« on: December 28, 2017, 05:54:12 AM »

The incoming water from the OWB is nice and hot ranging from 180 to 195. When all 4 zones are calling for heat, the water temp returning to the OWB is a delta T of 20 to 25. I have baseboard emitters throughout my house with exception of the kitchen, it has a wall hung convector. My set up is, I have the water constantly circulating between the oil burner and FPHX. The water temp inside the oil burner fluctuates between 140 and 150 degrees. This causes the wall convector in the kitchen to run continuously, although it's a comfortable 70 degrees in there. The circulators at the OWB and between the oil burner and FPHX are Grundfos 22-99, each set to the number 2 position. My question is; if I turned up the speed on the circ between the oil burner and FPHX to the number 3 position, will it help or hinder with the water temp inside the oil burner? I'm trying to get the water inside my oil burner as hot as I can, which is the reason for turning up the speed on the circ. In my feeble mind, this makes sense. I will add it's a comfortable 70 degrees inside this 1840's farmhouse. The outside temp this morning is around -10 without the windchill factored in.  Thanks.  Roger
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E Yoder

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2017, 07:20:42 AM »

I would turn up the speed on the pump coming in from the OWB. The loop from the oil boiler is short and moves probably double the water. Seems like you should be getting more than 140-150 in the oil boiler... How is it plumbed into the boiler? Should be pulling cool return water going into the flat plate, counterflowed through exiting at the hottest end of the flat plate, then dumping into the supply or top of the boiler.Unless you're plumbed with a primary loop... Lots of details.
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Roger2561

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2017, 08:16:44 AM »

I would turn up the speed on the pump coming in from the OWB. The loop from the oil boiler is short and moves probably double the water. Seems like you should be getting more than 140-150 in the oil boiler... How is it plumbed into the boiler? Should be pulling cool return water going into the flat plate, counterflowed through exiting at the hottest end of the flat plate, then dumping into the supply or top of the boiler.Unless you're plumbed with a primary loop... Lots of details.

E. Yoder - I have turned up the speed on the circ inside the house between the oil burner and FPHX.  It has made somewhat of a difference, the wall hung convector now turns off when it's supposed to but I'm not sure if it's due to the water moving quicker between the oil burner and FPHX or due to the thermal warming from the sun shining into the house.  Oh, it does counter flow through the FPHX.  The cool return water comes out of the oil burner drain, through the circ, counter flows through the heat exchanger and then re-enters the oil burner through where the T&P valve was located.  I re-installed the T&P valve after installing a "T" for the return line from the heat exchanger.  My guess, due to the small size of the oil burner drain (3/4 inch) and where the T&P valve was located (3/4 inch) it's restricting how many BTU's are entering my oil burner.   Thanks for the response.  Roger     
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E Yoder

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2017, 09:02:41 AM »

Yes, the 3/4" tees are a bit of pinch point. But if you have 1" coming in from the OWB the flow rate on the stove side is probably lower because of the long piping.  It needs the extra "oomph" more. So I think turning up the pump on the stove would help more. My guess of course.
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Roger2561

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2017, 10:37:56 AM »

Yes, the 3/4" tees are a bit of pinch point. But if you have 1" coming in from the OWB the flow rate on the stove side is probably lower because of the long piping.  It needs the extra "oomph" more. So I think turning up the pump on the stove would help more. My guess of course.

Thanks for the pointers.  I'll give that try when I feel brave enough to go outside again.  It's darned cold out there!  I post the results some time later.  Roger 
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E Yoder

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2017, 11:04:59 AM »

 :thumbup: Yup, it's not the day for tinkering around outside. But it is a good day to see results from different flow rates, adjustments. On a milder day it's harder to tell if an adjustment helped or not.
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fireboss

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2017, 04:59:42 PM »

What size FPHX do you have?  And I wonder if it is getting plugged up ?  I switch from a 40  to a 100 and I am max Out, I have the same set up I have a taco 14 from my Woodburner to my flat plate only 20 ft away and my oil burner temp is 165 170 and I have my Woodburner turn up to 195/185
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Roger2561

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2017, 05:10:07 PM »

What size FPHX do you have?  And I wonder if it is getting plugged up ?  I switch from a 40  to a 100 and I am max Out, I have the same set up I have a taco 14 from my Woodburner to my flat plate only 20 ft away and my oil burner temp is 165 170 and I have my Woodburner turn up to 195/185

fireboss - I have a 50 plate FPHX.  I flush it out really good every spring but it still may be plugging up.  I've been mulling it over for the past year or so if I need to increase the size of it.  Did the increase to a 100 make a difference for you?  Roger
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fireboss

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2017, 05:32:43 PM »

We’ll I thought it did but it hasn’t been this cold since I did it, and I had my flow going the wrong way.  Had my hot water was going in the bottom ,but no the bigger exchanger didn’t make a difference neither did switching the flow or the bigger pump from the wood burner
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Roger2561

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 06:09:04 PM »

We’ll I thought it did but it hasn’t been this cold since I did it, and I had my flow going the wrong way.  Had my hot water was going in the bottom ,but no the bigger exchanger didn’t make a difference neither did switching the flow or the bigger pump from the wood burner

Having just read this, perhaps I haven't flushed the heat exchanger well enough.  Thankfully I always had counter flow through the heat exchanger.  One thing I did when I plumbed in my heat exchanger, I put in by-pass routes in the event I had trouble with the heat exchanger, all I need to do is close a couple of valves and open a couple of others.  This would allow me to by-pass the heat exchanger and have direct flow through the oil burner.  The down side to this is the entire heating system in the house would be open, not a closed, pressurized system.  Just for giggles, I may do this as a test to see if it points to a problem with the heat exchanger.  What do you think?  Roger 
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fireboss

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2017, 06:29:54 PM »

I wish I had thought about that when I put mine in . I went with the heat exchanger because I work a lot of over time and my wife will not go out and put wood in so when the house starts getting cold she goes down to the basement and switch’s to oil , It’s just a matter of closing 2 ball valves and plug the oil burner in and whenever I get home I put wood on and switch back. I don’t think I would have a problem if I went directly into the oil burner.
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Roger2561

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 06:55:40 PM »

I wish I had thought about that when I put mine in . I went with the heat exchanger because I work a lot of over time and my wife will not go out and put wood in so when the house starts getting cold she goes down to the basement and switch’s to oil , It’s just a matter of closing 2 ball valves and plug the oil burner in and whenever I get home I put wood on and switch back. I don’t think I would have a problem if I went directly into the oil burner.

If I have time tomorrow I'll see what happens when I by-pass the FPHX, see if it makes any difference in the temp in the oil burner.  What I did this evening was fire up my pellet stove.  It's a toasty 74 degrees in my living room area (700 Sq Ft).  The down side to that is, it removes the heat from the den which is on the same zone as the living room plus the den is on the north side of the house, that's where the prevailing winds come from and it chilly in there without heat.  Oh well, it isn't going to last forever.  Roger
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fireboss

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2017, 03:02:42 AM »

Maybe you can move the thermostat to the other room so you won’t have that problem when you fire up the pellet stove
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Roger2561

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2017, 03:04:19 AM »

Okay, so yesterday afternoon I got brave enough to outside in the cold and turned up the speed on the 26-99 Grundsfos from number 2 to number 3 on the OWB.  The indoor 26-99 between the oil burner and FPHX is set at number 3 too.  With 2 zones calling for heat this morning, the temp in the oil burner shows only 150.  I do not know what it'll show if the 3rd zone calls for heat, my best guess is the temp will fall into the 130 to 150 range.  Guys (or gals) will it hurt anything if I went directly into the oil burner with the water from the OWB other than introducing the water from the OWB into the house system, by by-passing the FPHX to see if the problem is with the FPHX?  The outdoor temps this morning is -14 with a 10mph breeze out of the north.  I'd like to get to the bottom of this knowing the temps are supposed to be approaching -20 early next week.  Thanks for your input.  Roger
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Roger2561

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2017, 03:06:18 AM »

Maybe you can move the thermostat to the other room so you won’t have that problem when you fire up the pellet stove

fireboss, that solution is so simple that it never occurred to try it!  I'll do that and see what happens.  Thanks.  Roger
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