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1

Polar Furnace / Re: New to Polar G2

« on: April 18, 2017, 05:47:32 PM »

Something you might want to consider when setting up your system is your electric cost. I have heard that some places in Canada it is really high. If it is where you are, I would use larger piping so you can use ECM pumps.

I would like to use ECM pumps. How do I determine what size pump I need ?
I know they are by GPM and Head but how do I figure that out ?

2

Polar Furnace / Re: I'm impressed

« on: April 18, 2017, 01:19:28 PM »

Thanks for the pump suggestion RSI. I will look into them and see if they are available to me here..

So, I will need to do some more looking to find 1" valves and such. That is why I ask here...thanks SlimJim
Is there somewhere I can figure out what flow rate and head I need ? Must be a calculation somewhere..

If you can, get those valves in full port, some may have one inch fittings but the hole thru em is more like 3/4”.

Thanks..I still can't wrap my head around were to drop pipe size down. When the 1" comes into the house, were does the size drop ?
And for the garage, If I get the 1"MTP plate exchanger, does the other loop off the primary on the other side of the plate have to be all 1" as well, how about the manifold ?

3

Polar Furnace / Re: New to Polar G2

« on: April 18, 2017, 01:11:26 PM »

That is the way I heat my 50x60x16 shed. Primary loop from the boiler to the shed which has a 40 plate heat exchanger feeding a 10 loop manifold. I switched to a Gundfus Alpha ECM pump and cut my electric usage for that pump by 75% and flow is excellent. I have antifreeze in the in floor system only just in case of problems.

Thanks..my garage will only be 30x40x12. So, a 40 plate should do for me as well. Did you use the 1" MPT ? From what I can find a 40 plate is the smallest in the 1".
 What model of Grundfos did you use on the primary and the floor system ?

4

Polar Furnace / Re: I'm impressed

« on: April 16, 2017, 03:41:36 PM »

Thanks very much..sent a new one

5

Polar Furnace / Re: I'm impressed

« on: April 16, 2017, 12:40:08 PM »

Sent you an email but can't attach pictures..

6

Polar Furnace / Re: I'm impressed

« on: April 16, 2017, 11:41:53 AM »

I am real sorry SlimJim but I still don't understand at what point I can change from 1" PEX to 3/4 copper in the house and 1" PEX to 1/2 inch in the garage for the radiant floor pipe and manifold. I will try to draw something up and post back what I think I need to do. I will post it in the other thread so I am not jacking this one.

7

Polar Furnace / Re: New to Polar G2

« on: April 16, 2017, 11:21:08 AM »

I think I am slowing getting this...If I install a plate exchanger for the slab loop I would actually be creating a closed system for the slab right ? That's why the expansion tank in the loop and a pressure relief valve and another circulation pump too I would guess.
I don't know if there will be enough room in the back of the furnace with the two sets of pipes and pumps...don't know but, it could be installed in the garage too right ? The a small circulation pump on the floor loop ?

8

Polar Furnace / Re: I'm impressed

« on: April 16, 2017, 10:46:11 AM »

Do not choke your main loop plumbing down!

At what point can I go to 3/4 ?
I see that mixing valves, zone valves, and plate exchange for DHW are usually 3/4 MPT

9

Polar Furnace / Re: New to Polar G2

« on: April 16, 2017, 10:41:47 AM »

First, remember that about 80% of heat loss from a radiant slab comes from the perimeter walls, that is the most important place for insulation and yes being from the North country I would certainly use anti freeze in the slab,

The frost walls around the garage will be ICF so there will be foam around the perimeter. So, you suggest running antifreeze in the entire system, 50/50 ?
If so, that will change my calculations for the pump a bit. The addition of antifreeze changes flow rates I believe.

10

Polar Furnace / Re: I'm impressed

« on: April 16, 2017, 10:14:51 AM »

Oh wait…you already said something about not being able to ship to Canada? Or was that another thread/person.
[/quote]

No, that was me..supply house won't ship to Canada. I have looked at a few other places but nothing for sure yet. Seems I can get a Wilo Star 33FC, 3 speed pump, they say it is equivilant to the Taco 0011 or Grunfos 2699F

11

Polar Furnace / Re: New to Polar G2

« on: April 16, 2017, 10:09:09 AM »

Yes, the garage will have radiant in the floor. It's not a floating slab though, it will have frost walls around the outside, plastic and rigid foam insulation under floor. Both pumps for the house and shop will run all the time. I was planning on a mixing valve in the floor loop controlled by a zone valve. Didn't think I could put antifreeze in the garage loop and not the house loop ? Would I need antifreeze ?

12

Polar Furnace / Re: New to Polar G2

« on: April 15, 2017, 06:03:51 PM »

The garage will be a new build. The garage doesn't even need to be heated. Don't think the insurance companies here care..
I will have two pumps on the boiler itself. One for the garage and the other for the house. The Polar comes with an EZ manifold built right on the boiler with two adapters for pumps and two returns.

13

Polar Furnace / Re: New to Polar G2

« on: April 15, 2017, 05:45:13 PM »

That's right..forgot about the mixing tempering valve ...there is a lot to try and keep straight for a novice.
So, it would be best to make both pumps the same ? 
The garage and the house will be real close to the same distances to the OWB, the only difference will be the pipe in the floor of the garage. Nobody answered that question. Do I count the pipe in the floor as part of the garage loop or just to the manifold for the radiant heat .

14

Polar Furnace / Re: New to Polar G2

« on: April 15, 2017, 05:14:14 PM »

Thanks..

These numbers are just estimates at this point, like I said I don't even have it installed yet. Just want to make sure that I am on the right track so that once I get the unit in position and know the exact distances I can figure out what I need for pumps, pipe, etc. I read somewhere that the target for heat loss is from 20 to 40 degrees. That's why I chose 30. Should I be aiming closer to 20 ? Just concerned about water going to in floor heat in garage could be to hot ? I don't know.. Could I have two different sized pumps, one for each loop ?

The exchanger for the furnace is 16 x 18. Haven't looked into the plate exchanges yet for DHW.

15

Polar Furnace / Re: New to Polar G2

« on: April 15, 2017, 02:22:27 PM »

Does this look like I am on the right track...or not ?

Assume 80' from boiler to house and 20' inside.

Target drop in temputature = 30 degrees Farinhiet

GPM = BTU / Delta T / 500
GPM = 160000 / 30 / 500
GPM = 10.67

1” PEX Velocity of 4.22 ftps @ 11 gpm
1” House loop head = 100' x 2 = 200   
   Loss per 100' = 2.41
   Ft of 1” = 200'
   Add 10% for fittings and valves = 2.41 x 2 + 10% = 5.3 psi pipe loss
   5.3 x 2.31 = 12.24 ft head

Pump Requirements = 10.67 GPM @ 12.24 Head Ft