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[Mr. Maple]

 Hello everyone, after much researching here and other sites, much reading and internet surfing I have narrowed my choice down for replacing our aging Empyre furnace to two choices-Portage and Main gasification units or Central Boiler gasification units. Our Empyre is the 450 deluxe, 11 going on 12 years old. It has been a good furnace, but I know now that there are better choices for efficiency, etc now than there was when we bought it. The furnace is rated for 8000 square feet, holds 300 gallons of water
   My Central Boiler dealer is recommending the E classic 3200 for our situation, two older farmhouses, heated garage/workshop. I went to visit a neighbor the other day that has this model and just loves it. he uses it year round to even heat his milk house water. He tells me that he loads it once daily in the winter, every two days spring and fall, and every 4 days in the summer. Our  Central Boiler dealer is about 40 minutes away.
 The Portage and Main unit I am looking at would be the BL3848. I have to yet find someone nearby that has one of these to compare and speak to the owner about performance/satisfaction.
    Here is the big question I have about making the final decision-Central Boiler has a much higher water jacket, and slightly higher BTU output(according to the manufacturer) , with the Portage and Main the water jacket is much smaller leading to potentially faster  recovery times. Is it better to go with higher capacity or faster recovery?
     What I like about the CB also is the spray foamed insulation, we had our basement and garage done, if I were to build a new house it would be done from top to bottom and everything in between. What I don't like is not having an ash pan to haul the ashes out like we have always done with our Empyre.     The Portage and Main apparently has little to no ashes? This is only what I have heard as I have not yet seen one in operation or found out anymore details as of yet.
   Two other notes to consider-CB dealer 40 minutes away, P& M dealer one hour 45 minutes away. What I am looking for is most efficient I can get, with longest burn times, I don't mind using more or less wood each loading, as long as it works out to using the lesser amount of wood over the entire heating season
 Thanks in advance for the help

[jtepn87]

I don't have experience with either one of these units, but from what I can gather is that they are both top notch stoves. Either one will make you happy that you bought it. At that point it all comes down to the dealer. Does one just want to make the sell and not stand by the product they sell if something should go wrong? I don't know about your dealers but I do know that Slimjim, is a P&M rep, and has gone above and beyond to help people on here. Even those who have bought a different brand stoves. I do not know of a CB dealer or rep on here, but there are some very knowledgeable owners, who are equally as passionate about their stoves.

[mlappin]

From how I understand it I wouldn't be worried about distance from a dealer if you went with P&M, all components are off the shelf and should be able to be bought at any well supplied HVAC store or WWGrainger even.

[xcvatr]

New member here, long time wood burner.

    I too am going to be in the market for a new stove this year as mine just started leaking this week, a pro steel that is 12 yrs old and ss, so after reading all the posts about ss I think that with 12 yrs on the unit I was lucky to get that long.
 I did alot of reading the last week and would be concerned with the spray foam insulation, as if you do get a pin hole the water stays in that area and corrodes olot bigger area. Also have talked to the p7m dealer and figured out that I dont need a gassifier for my situation along with all the extra maintainance associated with it and the need to have a more perfect wood source.

 I also can cay that in the last week I have inquired through the internet on 5 different brands and ONLY the p7m dealer was the ONLY 1 to call me back, and that was within 2 hrs of the internet request.
 I  ahve not personally tried c b as several opf my neighbors have them, one had a ss model and had leakes in the first season, altho the gave him a new fire box he had to have his son do all the work on it, upun inspaetion of the failed unit it was determined that altho the steel was ss tha welds were not ss, so the failure.

I am still undecided but leaning very heavy twords the p&m unit.

 Thanks fort this site I just found the other day, has alot of good info

[coolidge]

Mr. Maple,

   The P and M BL 3848 is not a gasser, but should do the trick for you. SlimJim will be able to give you more info on that boiler.

[Sprinter]

For quality and performance between these two, I would put my money on the P&M all day and twice on sunday

[slimjim]

Thanks for the comments guys, if there are any further questions please feel free, I had a busy day yesterday and did not get to reply to this, sorry, I guess you guys handled it well without me, Thank you.

[Scott7m]

New member here, long time wood burner.

    I too am going to be in the market for a new stove this year as mine just started leaking this week, a pro steel that is 12 yrs old and ss, so after reading all the posts about ss I think that with 12 yrs on the unit I was lucky to get that long.
 I did alot of reading the last week and would be concerned with the spray foam insulation, as if you do get a pin hole the water stays in that area and corrodes olot bigger area. Also have talked to the p7m dealer and figured out that I dont need a gassifier for my situation along with all the extra maintainance associated with it and the need to have a more perfect wood source.

 I also can cay that in the last week I have inquired through the internet on 5 different brands and ONLY the p7m dealer was the ONLY 1 to call me back, and that was within 2 hrs of the internet request.
 I  ahve not personally tried c b as several opf my neighbors have them, one had a ss model and had leakes in the first season, altho the gave him a new fire box he had to have his son do all the work on it, upun inspaetion of the failed unit it was determined that altho the steel was ss tha welds were not ss, so the failure.

I am still undecided but leaning very heavy twords the p&m unit.

 Thanks fort this site I just found the other day, has alot of good info

Please fill me in on the disadvantages of stainless steel?  I know it's been a major marketing ploy from non stainless companies but in my personal experience I've not seen it be problematic in the least.   Actually, manufacturers have corrected several issues by using stainless components.  Even p and m

[slimjim]

I would agree with you there Scott, I think that a few manufacturers have screwed up the reputation of stainless by poor construction techniques, I know I worked with one of those companies and it certainly left a bad taste in my mouth, there are old stoves on both sides of the stainless debate that are still running today and they were built by reputable companies, I personally am wary of stainless but that is because of that companies poor knowledge of what they were working with and how to keep it from cracking, as a weekend fabricator I know I don't like to weld stainless, but I have never had any formal training on it either, If I had a stainless boiler that leaked I would more than likely not try repairing it myself but let a pro do the repairs instead.

[Scott7m]

I would agree with you there Scott, I think that a few manufacturers have screwed up the reputation of stainless by poor construction techniques, I know I worked with one of those companies and it certainly left a bad taste in my mouth, there are old stoves on both sides of the stainless debate that are still running today and they were built by reputable companies, I personally am wary of stainless but that is because of that companies poor knowledge of what they were working with and how to keep it from cracking, as a weekend fabricator I know I don't like to weld stainless, but I have never had any formal training on it either, If I had a stainless boiler that leaked I would more than likely not try repairing it myself but let a pro do the repairs instead.

I've seen companies let poor quality control and poor design cause issues but it wasn't the materials fault.  A bad design is a bad design no matter what material is being used, some may be more forgiving but if design is good, it will be great

I know how you take care of the steel prior to use is a huge issue as well, I know heatmaster is meticulous with how they take care of there rolls before it's ever used

As far as welding it, don't be afraid, just use er 409 in your mig and your good to go,  you can also weld it with mild steel wire, but technically ur not supposed to but I've seen it done on 409 before with no issues

If it's a 304 stainless, different story and likely thinner material like the 1/16" fire boxes and jackets hardy uses

[Mr. Maple]

 Hello Sprinter,can you please specify why P & M,what do you not like about the CB? As far as the stainless goes, CB is also rolled steel like P & M now. I may be going to a farm Show this week where both brands are so I can compare apples to apples, but would rather hear from experience than salesmen, not meaning you SlimJim, look forward to your comments, but at the show I am sure both will have the best furnace and down play the other one.

[slimjim]

  None taken, first I'm not a sales guy and second they have to make a living too, sure beats not working for a living, Farm show ? Dave is doing another one this week not sure where, if it's him there should be free beer!

[Scott7m]

As someone who sells neither one, buy p and m

[mlappin]

New member here, long time wood burner.

    I too am going to be in the market for a new stove this year as mine just started leaking this week, a pro steel that is 12 yrs old and ss, so after reading all the posts about ss I think that with 12 yrs on the unit I was lucky to get that long.
 I did alot of reading the last week and would be concerned with the spray foam insulation, as if you do get a pin hole the water stays in that area and corrodes olot bigger area. Also have talked to the p7m dealer and figured out that I dont need a gassifier for my situation along with all the extra maintainance associated with it and the need to have a more perfect wood source.

 I also can cay that in the last week I have inquired through the internet on 5 different brands and ONLY the p7m dealer was the ONLY 1 to call me back, and that was within 2 hrs of the internet request.
 I  ahve not personally tried c b as several opf my neighbors have them, one had a ss model and had leakes in the first season, altho the gave him a new fire box he had to have his son do all the work on it, upun inspaetion of the failed unit it was determined that altho the steel was ss tha welds were not ss, so the failure.

I am still undecided but leaning very heavy twords the p&m unit.

 Thanks fort this site I just found the other day, has alot of good info

Please fill me in on the disadvantages of stainless steel?  I know it's been a major marketing ploy from non stainless companies but in my personal experience I've not seen it be problematic in the least.   Actually, manufacturers have corrected several issues by using stainless components.  Even p and m

A few problems I've dealt with in the past with stainless was also due to poor design or the wrong stainless being used.

Stainless can also be a b*tch to weld over head or out of position.

Biggest concern I'd have on a non gasser stainless stove is that to keep it price competitive is they only use 10 gauge, which is fine if your very gentle in filling it, however I did see at a place that specializes in stainless welding and fabrication a stainless OWB that had the back so dented up from the owner (or his kids) chucking wood in that it failed. Being a gasifier uses smaller pieces and needs stacked carefully I would see the above mentioned being near the problem.

[Scott7m]

Yea...  but how about the tens of thousands of hardys out there with 16 Guage stainless,1/16 of an inch basically.


10 Guage compared to that is thick stuff,  Empyre builds a deluxe model using 304 but keeps the thickness at 10 Guage vs 16 like the 304 hardy


I've just seen so many heatmasters that have had no issues it makes me really like it, but that's based primarily on my experience with heatmaster and nnot so much the other companies as I haven't had as much experience with them