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661
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: My Stove Journey
« on: August 16, 2013, 08:04:04 AM »
Well, I finally started installing my system. First item of business was my first of 3 water to air heat exchangers. This one had to go under my main house furnace. It took 2 of us 2.5 hours to get wrestled in. I built a frame out of 2x6 lumber and "housed" the exchanger in it so it won't have to bear any weight. I was lucky to have enough slack in my coolant line to be able to raise the furnace the 6" required to get the new frame and exchanger in. Otherwise, I would've had to call in a pro to extend and refill my coolant line. My upstairs exchanger should be easier, as I will be able to insert it into the duct work right after the furnace.
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662
Fire Wood / Re: Wood cutting time
« on: July 22, 2013, 12:33:43 PM »
Yes, way too many variables to answer that question. But, I will give you an example mainly because I just cut some last night. I had a storm-downed oak, 36" diameter at the base, that i tackled with my dad last night. Took us about 3 hours to get 1.5 cords out of it. The rest I will get by myself this week and that will probably take me 3 more hours alone to get the other 1.5 cords. So, about 9 manhours to get 3 cords out of a downed tree. Plus another manhour to unload the trailer. Maybe another manhour to split the bigger stuff. Didn't load anything smaller than 4" in diameter and won't split anything smaller than 10" in diameter. I'd say for a downed tree we spent about 4 manhours per cord. Some may be faster. Some slower.
663
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Pa Future OWB
« on: July 08, 2013, 12:57:22 PM »
I live in Indiana and we have that exact exemption. I would start by looking on your Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Management website. If you have to search, use the term "hydronic heating." My state's terminology doesn't include words like "boiler" or "outdoor furnace." It took me a while to find the language myself. Good luck!
664
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: My Stove Journey
« on: July 03, 2013, 06:11:45 AM »
I think the stove I got was 2,200 pounds. Quite a bit lighter than other models because it is stainless steel.
665
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: My Stove Journey
« on: July 03, 2013, 05:28:00 AM »
Thanks guys! The height was all she could handle. Boom extended, both arms stretched out, barely got it 3" off the truck bed. I borrowed it from a neighbor down the road. The rest of my equipment arrives next week!
666
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: My Stove Journey
« on: July 02, 2013, 06:27:14 AM »
Well, another step down! I got my stove delivered last night! It is in a temporary resting place until I can get my pad poured.
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667
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: EPA orders Central Boiler to pull efficiencies from its models
« on: June 26, 2013, 10:20:17 AM »
Ok, a couple things. First of all, in your second commment, you said "OWBs are the most inefficient wood burning device on the market today." Horsecrap! (pardon my French) You're telling me that a fireplace insert is more efficient? I really don't think that there is anything out there, short of setting your floor on fire, that heats a house with wood better than and OWB. Second, I don't think many of the guys on here really worry much about their "efficiency rating." They put wood in, it heats water, it heats their house. End of story. If they burn 8 cords, they burn 8 cords. So what. They burn the amount of wood that they need to keep their house warm. Some guys will get a gasser to burn less wood. So, next year they burn 5. Awesome, they saved 3 cords of time. I don't think they look at the sticker that says how "efficient" the model is. I have no idea what the tagged efficiency is on the stove I'm getting. I know it's going to take 5-7 cords to heat my house for a winter. I didn't buy it because it says its 90% efficient and my conventional heating system is only 85%. I bought it because the wood is free.
669
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / My Stove Journey
« on: June 17, 2013, 11:01:49 AM »
Greetings all! I am well into the process of getting set up with an outdoor wood boiler. I have been in the process for almost 8 months now. It has been quite a journey so far and I still have quite a ways to go. I enjoy sharing my story with others. I decided I should post it here as well in the hopes that someone else may benefit from it.
I purchased my house (home details to come later) in May of 2012 and was told my yearly average for my all electric utility bills was $300 per month. That turned out to be a lie. My electric bill was $720 for December. My January bill would've been higher, but we abandoned upstairs and completely shut it down. Seeing the unaffordable situation I was in, I began researching alternatives. I ruled out Geotherm as I didn't have $25,000 sitting around, nor did I have the equity to finance it. I had heard about outdoor wood boilers and began researching. Much of that research included some of you on this site! So, in December, I bought a Stihl MS290 Farm Boss and began cutting wood.
As many of you know, there are quite a few type of boilers out there. After being overwhelmed with choices, I jotted down all the different features found in OWB's and ranked them in priority. I decided I wanted a forced air furnace, I wanted stainless steel, I wanted affordability, and I wanted a conventional style. My house is 3700 sft of living space, 900 sft of garage space, a hot tub, an 18'x36' inground pool. This space is heated with 3 resistance electric furnaces and 2 electric water heaters. My insulation is terrible and windows are non-insulated.
In May, I expanded my wood storage area with 10 tons of gravel. I felt that the gravel will allow water to drain away and give me a good surface to work on and stack. I got the gravel spread out and now I have enough room to store as much as 15 cords if I wanted to. I am currently up to about 8 cords on my way to 10 before heating season starts up. I live in southwestern Indiana, and based on my research, I am anticipating using between 5 and 7 cords.
Last week I ordered my stove. I got the Heatmaster MF10,000E. This stove fit all my criteria in what I was looking for, and met the criteria for the state of Indiana. Indiana is an EPA Phase II state, but they allow conventional stoves that generate 350,000 BTU. My demand was such that I needed that type of stove. My stove will be arriving at the end of this month!
My design is a bit different that anything I have found on this site, so I am going to share. I have a main house area that consists of nearly 3,000 sft and a semi-detached garage that includes a bonus room above it. My stove will be located at the "ground" level behind my garage. I can't get into the main part of the house at ground level, so my supply/return lines will have to go up and down as much as 10'. I have attached a plan view PDF and a profile view PDF that shows all this in detail. My demand is also so high, that I thought it best to run 2 circuits and split the load demand as evenly as possible. My upstairs furnace and downstairs furnace will be on separate circuits. My hot tub and pool exchangers will be on separate circuits, so on and so forth. Spreading the load on 2 circuits will allow me to keep my temps up and not have items at the end of the circuit starving for heat.
That is my story so far. I plan on updating and loading more pictures as everything progresses. If you veterans have any comments or suggestions, feel free to PM, e-mail or post. Newbies with questions, feel free to do the same.
Thanks!
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I purchased my house (home details to come later) in May of 2012 and was told my yearly average for my all electric utility bills was $300 per month. That turned out to be a lie. My electric bill was $720 for December. My January bill would've been higher, but we abandoned upstairs and completely shut it down. Seeing the unaffordable situation I was in, I began researching alternatives. I ruled out Geotherm as I didn't have $25,000 sitting around, nor did I have the equity to finance it. I had heard about outdoor wood boilers and began researching. Much of that research included some of you on this site! So, in December, I bought a Stihl MS290 Farm Boss and began cutting wood.
As many of you know, there are quite a few type of boilers out there. After being overwhelmed with choices, I jotted down all the different features found in OWB's and ranked them in priority. I decided I wanted a forced air furnace, I wanted stainless steel, I wanted affordability, and I wanted a conventional style. My house is 3700 sft of living space, 900 sft of garage space, a hot tub, an 18'x36' inground pool. This space is heated with 3 resistance electric furnaces and 2 electric water heaters. My insulation is terrible and windows are non-insulated.
In May, I expanded my wood storage area with 10 tons of gravel. I felt that the gravel will allow water to drain away and give me a good surface to work on and stack. I got the gravel spread out and now I have enough room to store as much as 15 cords if I wanted to. I am currently up to about 8 cords on my way to 10 before heating season starts up. I live in southwestern Indiana, and based on my research, I am anticipating using between 5 and 7 cords.
Last week I ordered my stove. I got the Heatmaster MF10,000E. This stove fit all my criteria in what I was looking for, and met the criteria for the state of Indiana. Indiana is an EPA Phase II state, but they allow conventional stoves that generate 350,000 BTU. My demand was such that I needed that type of stove. My stove will be arriving at the end of this month!
My design is a bit different that anything I have found on this site, so I am going to share. I have a main house area that consists of nearly 3,000 sft and a semi-detached garage that includes a bonus room above it. My stove will be located at the "ground" level behind my garage. I can't get into the main part of the house at ground level, so my supply/return lines will have to go up and down as much as 10'. I have attached a plan view PDF and a profile view PDF that shows all this in detail. My demand is also so high, that I thought it best to run 2 circuits and split the load demand as evenly as possible. My upstairs furnace and downstairs furnace will be on separate circuits. My hot tub and pool exchangers will be on separate circuits, so on and so forth. Spreading the load on 2 circuits will allow me to keep my temps up and not have items at the end of the circuit starving for heat.
That is my story so far. I plan on updating and loading more pictures as everything progresses. If you veterans have any comments or suggestions, feel free to PM, e-mail or post. Newbies with questions, feel free to do the same.
Thanks!
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670
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: EPA Approved vs Older style
« on: June 14, 2013, 06:01:23 AM »
Indiana is an EPA Phase 2 state. The Indiana Codes states that when a dealer delivers a stove, they have to give a copy of the code to the homeowner AND they can't leave the stove until the new owner has signed a form stating that they have received a copy of the state code. That code is what tells you what you can and can't do with your boilers. Indiana also has the 350,000 BTU allowance for conventional boilers.
Now, the Indiana EPA does not have any "teeth" in the law. They cannot "shut you down." I found a document online from a summary of public hearing comments from before the law was passed, and several people who were against wood boilers alltogether, commented ans asked the EPA what they can do to "enforce" the law. Their answer was basically, we can't. There is no fine structure, no penalty structure and no funding to "patrol" the countryside. They stated that they operate under a "neighbor complaint" type policy. Even after they receive a complaint, there really isn't any force behind the statute. All they can do is horass you. You may look up the New York code and read the fine print. I happened to order out of state and got a conventional boiler. I heard from a dealer who often sells boilers across state lines that he has gotten letters from the Indiana EPA asking him to stop it.
Now, the Indiana EPA does not have any "teeth" in the law. They cannot "shut you down." I found a document online from a summary of public hearing comments from before the law was passed, and several people who were against wood boilers alltogether, commented ans asked the EPA what they can do to "enforce" the law. Their answer was basically, we can't. There is no fine structure, no penalty structure and no funding to "patrol" the countryside. They stated that they operate under a "neighbor complaint" type policy. Even after they receive a complaint, there really isn't any force behind the statute. All they can do is horass you. You may look up the New York code and read the fine print. I happened to order out of state and got a conventional boiler. I heard from a dealer who often sells boilers across state lines that he has gotten letters from the Indiana EPA asking him to stop it.
671
Fire Wood / Re: Ground barrier
« on: March 19, 2013, 07:39:39 AM »
I have gravel under my pile. The gravel is graded so after the water falls through the stone, it flows away from the pile and into the yard.
672
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Set-Back Recommendations
« on: February 25, 2013, 03:05:33 PM »
Ok. Here is what I'm looking at specifically. (see attached PDF)
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673
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Set-Back Recommendations
« on: February 25, 2013, 02:38:27 PM »
After searching around this site, consulting with my insurance agent, and exploring an installation manual, I have not been able to come up with any solid recommendations for good set-back distances for the OWB from a house. Insurance agent said what ever the manual says. Manual says keep 36" away from anything flammable. Nothing very specific on how far away from the house to locate the boiler.
It is shaping up for the best place to locate my boiler is directly behind my semi-detached garage. Close enough that my return/supply lines will go from the back of the boiler directly through the wall into my garage without having to be burried. I have a slab floor and coming up from the gound is not feasible. My plan is an insulated connection on the exterior of the wall via the method that has been shown on this site a couple times before in other threads.
Any thoughts?
It is shaping up for the best place to locate my boiler is directly behind my semi-detached garage. Close enough that my return/supply lines will go from the back of the boiler directly through the wall into my garage without having to be burried. I have a slab floor and coming up from the gound is not feasible. My plan is an insulated connection on the exterior of the wall via the method that has been shown on this site a couple times before in other threads.
Any thoughts?
674
Hawken Energy, support only / Re: Pleased with Hawken?
« on: February 22, 2013, 06:04:28 PM »
Scott is right on. Anyone who is seriously researching will take a solid look at past postings and get a good feel for who is trustworthy and who is full of hot water (pun intended.) Anyone who makes a decision as large as a boiler based on 1 single poll at the top of a forum gets what they get. Another thing I've learned is that the little stars next to your name mean something. If you sign up and your first post is bashing our spouting off about a subject, you will not be taken seriously. (not saying you were spouting) There are good guys on here who have earned the respect of the majority of the regulars on here for a good reason.
John
John
675
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: underground pipe under driverway
« on: February 21, 2013, 07:23:14 AM »
I am a civil engineer and design highways. The general rule of thumb is 2' of cover over the pipe, and it will be fine. That is, 2' of properly compacted earth fill between the top of the pipe and the bottom of your pavement (gravel.)
Based on what I've seen on this forum, you will be looking at 24" to 30" of depth anyway for proper depth. Deeper if your water table is low enough.
I would recomend, however, that you sleeve the portion under the drive with a CMP, corrugated metal pipe, in case you need to replace it later or eventually pave your drive. This will allow you to access this space at a future date, without having to dig up your drive again. A 20' long section of 6" pipe is about $130 at Menards. A small price to pay for never having to dig up your drive again.
John
Based on what I've seen on this forum, you will be looking at 24" to 30" of depth anyway for proper depth. Deeper if your water table is low enough.
I would recomend, however, that you sleeve the portion under the drive with a CMP, corrugated metal pipe, in case you need to replace it later or eventually pave your drive. This will allow you to access this space at a future date, without having to dig up your drive again. A 20' long section of 6" pipe is about $130 at Menards. A small price to pay for never having to dig up your drive again.
John