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Author Topic: plumbing my owb  (Read 15723 times)

juddspaintballs

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plumbing my owb
« on: February 20, 2010, 06:40:26 PM »

I posted this same thing on Hearth.com.  Thanks for being patient with me so far on this forum.  Looking for more/other insight:

I’m putting in an outdoor wood boiler to heat my home and garage, as well as domestic water.  I’ll be using a Heatmor 200css with a domestic coil on it rather than a sidearm or flat plate heat exchanger for the water.  I plan to place the unit approximately 100’ from my house and about 50’ from my single car garage.

1) What size PEX should I use?
1” PEX would be great because I anticipate needing at least 200’ of tubing to go from the boiler to the house and back.  I’ll be self-insulating and water sealing my own lines.  Will 1” PEX be enough to heat just my home (drafty 1660 sq ft forced air) or do I need to step up to 1.25” PEX?  100’ or so in one direction.  It’s far easier to find fittings for 1” than it is 1.25”.  The clamp tool I’m seeing only does up to 1”.

2)  3/4” PEX for the domestic coil?
It’s separate from the lines dedicated to heating the home.  Cold well water to the furnace coil, hot domestic water back to the house.  Is 3/4” going to be plenty for just that?  100’ or so in one direction as well.

3)  Garage heat PEX size?
Only 50’ away from the boiler.  Totally uninsulated small garage, single car sized.  I’m going to put a water/air exchanger with a fan behind it hanging from the ceiling.  I’m not looking to keep the place 75 degrees, but 50-60 degrees would be nice.  I was thinking maybe 3/4” PEX again?

4)  Splitting the lines?
The house and garage aren’t very close to each other.  Would it make the most sense to Tee the output directly at the furnace so one side goes to the house for heat and the other goes to the garage for heat?  Then, bring the two loops back together with a Tee right at the inlet side of the furnace again?  Control valves on everything.  Separate pumps for each loop?  The domestic coil is totally separate and pumped via my well pump/house water pressure.

5)  Manifold?
Right now all I have in the house is a forced air setup.  All I need is a water/air heat exchanger in my plenum as far as I know.  My tile kitchen floor is ventless, however, and my feet are quite cold.  It would be quite difficult to add a vent to the kitchen near the floor, and equally difficult to add radiant heat by design of the house.  I am thinking about adding baseboard heat along the bottom of the cabinets from the hot water.  Should I build a small manifold in the house to split the water/air exchanger and the baseboard in the kitchen or could I just incorporate the loop back to the boiler into the baseboard heat?  I don’t need to make it a separate zone, just warm up the kitchen a little.

6)  Sharkbite or stainless steel clamps?
Sharkbites look really simple to use and are cheaper than buying the clamp tool.  The clamps shouldn’t fail over time because they don’t have any o-rings.  Which would you recommend?  I plan on purchasing as much as possible from pexsupply.com




What I've found is that I haven't found any O2 barrier 1 1/4" PEX or any fittings that fit it if I ever find it.  Can someone point me in the right direction?
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tulenutn2o

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Re: plumbing my owb
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 06:46:01 PM »

Let me tell ya, I am a licensed plumber/hvac/r guy  and have been slow to try new things over the years. Took me a while to take to pex and crimping, but its the only way to plumb a project. Having just plumbed my outdoor boiler, I'm all for the sharkbite, Man, what a time saver.. AND EASY! Only way to go for a boiler install. I personally used 1" pex 150' house to boiler and 1" 50' TO SHOP. The way I see it, my pumps are constantly on, so when stat calls for heat, blower kicks on. I wouldn't downsize or split the lines. Shorter run could take a smaller pump if you stay with 1". My .02
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willieG

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Re: plumbing my owb
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 07:39:56 PM »

I posted this same thing on Hearth.com.  Thanks for being patient with me so far on this forum.  Looking for more/other insight:

I’m putting in an outdoor wood boiler to heat my home and garage, as well as domestic water.  I’ll be using a Heatmor 200css with a domestic coil on it rather than a sidearm or flat plate heat exchanger for the water.  I plan to place the unit approximately 100’ from my house and about 50’ from my single car garage.

1) What size PEX should I use?
1” PEX would be great because I anticipate needing at least 200’ of tubing to go from the boiler to the house and back.  I’ll be self-insulating and water sealing my own lines.  Will 1” PEX be enough to heat just my home (drafty 1660 sq ft forced air) or do I need to step up to 1.25” PEX?  100’ or so in one direction.  It’s far easier to find fittings for 1” than it is 1.25”.  The clamp tool I’m seeing only does up to 1”.

one inch should do you quite well (although 1.25 would likely allow you to downsize your pump)

2)  3/4” PEX for the domestic coil?
It’s separate from the lines dedicated to heating the home.  Cold well water to the furnace coil, hot domestic water back to the house.  Is 3/4” going to be plenty for just that?  100’ or so in one direction as well.

yes
3)  Garage heat PEX size?
Only 50’ away from the boiler.  Totally uninsulated small garage, single car sized.  I’m going to put a water/air exchanger with a fan behind it hanging from the ceiling.  I’m not looking to keep the place 75 degrees, but 50-60 degrees would be nice.  I was thinking maybe 3/4” PEX again?

My opinion stay with 1 inch

4)  Splitting the lines?
The house and garage aren’t very close to each other.  Would it make the most sense to Tee the output directly at the furnace so one side goes to the house for heat and the other goes to the garage for heat?  Then, bring the two loops back together with a Tee right at the inlet side of the furnace again?  Control valves on everything.  Separate pumps for each loop?  The domestic coil is totally separate and pumped via my well pump/house water pressure.

Long winded message on this
5)  Manifold?
Right now all I have in the house is a forced air setup.  All I need is a water/air heat exchanger in my plenum as far as I know.  My tile kitchen floor is ventless, however, and my feet are quite cold.  It would be quite difficult to add a vent to the kitchen near the floor, and equally difficult to add radiant heat by design of the house.  I am thinking about adding baseboard heat along the bottom of the cabinets from the hot water.  Should I build a small manifold in the house to split the water/air exchanger and the baseboard in the kitchen or could I just incorporate the loop back to the boiler into the baseboard heat?  I don’t need to make it a separate zone, just warm up the kitchen a little.
put a manifold in with valves and plugs in teh valves for future use..you never know
6)  Sharkbite or stainless steel clamps?
Sharkbites look really simple to use and are cheaper than buying the clamp tool.  The clamps shouldn’t fail over time because they don’t have any o-rings.  Which would you recommend?  I plan on purchasing as much as possible from pexsupply.com

i have heard only good things about sharkbites


What I've found is that I haven't found any O2 barrier 1 1/4" PEX or any fittings that fit it if I ever find it.  Can someone point me in the right direction?
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juddspaintballs

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Re: plumbing my owb
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 10:14:56 AM »

It's been a little while since I started this thread.  I've done a lot of research and learning since then. 

Here's how it's going to work now:

I'm getting 1-1/4" O2 barrier PEX and spray foaming that into the ground.  The fittings aren't that hard to find actually.

The 1-1/4" lines are running into the house into a custom manifold I had built that has a 1-1/4" trunk, two 1" outlets, and five 3/4" outlets.  I'll be drawing my water/air heat exchanger heat from one of the 1" outlets through 1" PEX because the manifolds are literally 4' away from the heat exchanger.  I'll be running my domestic hot water through a sidearm heat exchanger, with one of the 3/4" outlets supplying the heating water for that.  As of right now, the remainder of the outlets will be unused, but valved just in case I want to add a loop without shutting anything down. 

I will be putting a domestic coil into the OWB still.  I'll run that directly to the garage via 1" lines.  It will have it's own pump on it, with a heat exchanger and expansion tank in the garage.  It will be filled with antifreeze.  I'll be able to shut that loop down when I'm not in the garage without worrying about freezing, and I can install it at any time without shutting down the rest of the OWB setup because the domestic coil feature will already be installed in the OWB. 

For PEX connections, I will probably be using crimp fittings.  I did some plumbing in my house with PEX recently and I loved the crimp fittings.  They look better than clamps and are far cheaper than sharkbites. 

My father in law has been an HVAC guy for 20+ years now.  He looked at my old ductwork and decided it was crap (only setup for heating and way oversized for my house).  I tore it all out.  He designed new ductwork that fits into my old house and is meant for heating AND cooling.  He sized all runs to keep up air velocity so all of the rooms actually get heated or cooled.  And, he's installing it all as well.  For everything including new vents and registers and returns, it ended up being less than $1000 since he got it all at cost through his job.  He got me good working take-outs of a heat pump and variable speed air handler for free.  Now I'll have a heat pump as emergency backup heat, and also air conditioning in the summer, and a very good air handler that we've tied my 22x22" water/air heat exchanger into. 
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willieG

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Re: plumbing my owb
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 05:46:23 PM »

looks like a plan to me!
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pipeadded

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Re: plumbing my owb
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2010, 10:17:38 AM »

It is better to use the 1 inch pex to maintain the maximum pressure of the line. The Sharkbites is easy to search and use. Your idea is excellent if you will just put them into actions.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 12:50:43 AM by pipeadded »
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juddspaintballs

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Re: plumbing my owb
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2010, 02:51:05 PM »

Pretty old thread.

Here's how it's currently plumbed (and hopefully I'm firing it up for the first time tonight):

1-1/4" PEX leaving the OWB and heading to the house (in closed cell spray foam).  It goes into a Grundfos multi-speed circulator and then into my first manifold.  Off of the first manifold it splits off into the coil in the plenum via 1" copper, my sidearm exchanger for hot water via 1" PEX, and a cast iron radiator in my basement via 1" PEX (shrunk to 3/4" copper a few feet prior to the radiator).  There's also a differential bypass valve between the supply manifold and the return manifold.  The return manifold is obviously hooked up to all of the listed stuff already.  On the end of the supply manifold I have a water line to fill the system off of my water heater and I have a boiler drain on the end of the return manifold.  1-1/4" PEX from the return manifold back to the OWB.  I have digital solar thermometers installed at the supply and return on the OWB to monitor temperatures.  I have a zone valve on the 1" copper for the coil in the plenum and I'll be using a strap on aquastat to open/close it.  I have the domestic hot water hooked up through the sidearm exchanger and I put a Taco 003 stainless circulator on the domestic water side to help circulate water through the sidearm and recover faster.  I put a variable speed controller on that circulator so I can slow it down as I feel necessary. 



Tonight I finish the wiring and fire it up!
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jackel440

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Re: plumbing my owb
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2010, 03:27:44 PM »

Pretty old thread.

Here's how it's currently plumbed (and hopefully I'm firing it up for the first time tonight):

1-1/4" PEX leaving the OWB and heading to the house (in closed cell spray foam).  It goes into a Grundfos multi-speed circulator and then into my first manifold.  Off of the first manifold it splits off into the coil in the plenum via 1" copper, my sidearm exchanger for hot water via 1" PEX, and a cast iron radiator in my basement via 1" PEX (shrunk to 3/4" copper a few feet prior to the radiator).  There's also a differential bypass valve between the supply manifold and the return manifold.  The return manifold is obviously hooked up to all of the listed stuff already.  On the end of the supply manifold I have a water line to fill the system off of my water heater and I have a boiler drain on the end of the return manifold.  1-1/4" PEX from the return manifold back to the OWB.  I have digital solar thermometers installed at the supply and return on the OWB to monitor temperatures.  I have a zone valve on the 1" copper for the coil in the plenum and I'll be using a strap on aquastat to open/close it.  I have the domestic hot water hooked up through the sidearm exchanger and I put a Taco 003 stainless circulator on the domestic water side to help circulate water through the sidearm and recover faster.  I put a variable speed controller on that circulator so I can slow it down as I feel necessary. 



Tonight I finish the wiring and fire it up!
Sounds like a real nice set up.I hope it all works like you have planned.need pics!
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juddspaintballs

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Re: plumbing my owb
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2010, 06:24:59 AM »

I'll get some pictures just as soon as I find my camera...

On the upside, I'm getting a 3 degree temperature drop between supply and return at the OWB when the house isn't calling for heat (sidearm is always exchanging and cast iron radiator is always on) and a 6 degree temperature drop between supply and return when the house is calling for heat.  The house is a cozy 72 degrees and we have unlimited hot water! 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 06:29:04 AM by juddspaintballs »
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willieG

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Re: plumbing my owb
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2010, 02:29:54 PM »

6 degree drop when house is using heat is real good
sounds like everything is working well
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juddspaintballs

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Re: plumbing my owb
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2010, 10:09:42 AM »

Got some pictures finally:

A couple of my manifold:










Sidearm exchanger with a stainless circulator to make the hot water "on demand":






Back of boiler with digital temp gauges:









Wood pile (all maple), boiler, and smoldering wood:





« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 10:30:11 AM by juddspaintballs »
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