Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Username: Password:
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Need advice on DHW  (Read 8140 times)

AirForcePOL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 864
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: G400
    • View Profile
Need advice on DHW
« on: March 17, 2014, 10:14:27 AM »

I posted this earlier but it didn't show up...

I recently purchased a Heatmaster 5000e to replace my Hardy H2.  I will be working on my install here and there over this spring and summer.  I want to make sure that I have a system that is done right this time.  I don't heat my DHW with my current setup but I will be adding it with the new one.  I really don't know what the best way to do it would be so I'm hoping you guys could help me out.  I would rather try to have a setup that would allow me to turn my water heater off completely durring the heating months if it is possible. 

What is the easiest and cheapest way to achieve that goal?  I'm looking for advice on what my best options would be and what all of you use for your DHW.  Thanks!
Logged
Athens, Illinois
Dealer for HeatMaster SS
Stihl MS 290
Troy Bilt 27 ton splitter

slimjim

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 158
  • OWF Brand: Wood Doctor / HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: 14,000. / G 200 and G 400
  • Southern Maine
    • View Profile
    • www.mainlycustom.com
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 10:19:08 AM »

  I think the most effective method is with a good quality electric hot water tank and a sidearm heater,( some guys like the plate exchangers but we never run out of hot water with the sidearm and in the summer we automatically revert back to electric
Logged
Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

CountryBoyJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 686
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: MF 10,000 E
    • View Profile
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2014, 11:54:14 AM »

Uh-oh, I hate to buck Slim, but here I go!!  I will start with a disclaimer.  I do not, nor have not run a sidearm.  I run a 20-plate plumbed in before my water heater.  My breaker has been off since October 13.  I have a family of 4, 2 adults, two small children.  My wife takes 45 minute showers, I take 5.  Kids get 3 baths a week-ish. 

I like the plate over the sidearm if you have normal to above normal usage.  Sidearms work for low use situations.  There have been many guys on here that have had to add small circulators to their sidearms to achieve the volume of hot what they really need.  This isn't necessary with a plate exchanger.  The more you use, the hotter it gets!  Sidearms need downtime to regenerate.  I've been gone for 4 days before, and yes, when I get home the water is luke-warm.  But, I turn on the tub, let it run for less than 5 minutes, and I'm back to full power!

My final illustration is this:  I filled a 400 gallon hot tub with 110 degree water.  I hooked up a hose to my hot side of my washing machine supply and let her rip for 2 hours.  Bada-bing.  You can't do that with a sidearm. 
Logged
2013 F250 6.2L Lariat
Stihl MS290
DHT 27 Ton Log Splitter
Woodchuck Log Jack
56, 57, 58 Ferguson TO-35
Knox County, IN

AirForcePOL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 864
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: G400
    • View Profile
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2014, 12:13:11 PM »

Thanks for your input guys.  No a question for both of you:  When you run the exchanger on the supply side of the water heater, you are basically counting on the insulation of the water heater to keep the storage tank warm right?  Is there much difference in head pressure between the two? 
Logged
Athens, Illinois
Dealer for HeatMaster SS
Stihl MS 290
Troy Bilt 27 ton splitter

slimjim

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 158
  • OWF Brand: Wood Doctor / HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: 14,000. / G 200 and G 400
  • Southern Maine
    • View Profile
    • www.mainlycustom.com
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2014, 01:18:03 PM »

Yes on the insulation and not sure what you are asking about head pressure, are you asking if there is a difference with head between the 20 plate and the sidearm
Logged
Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

AirForcePOL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 864
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: G400
    • View Profile
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2014, 02:10:20 PM »

Ok thanks.  Yea basically which one has the least amount of head.  I'm assuming it depends on which one I choose to go with. It would probably be a 20 plate.  I haven't researched side arms at all so I don't know what size I would need.
Logged
Athens, Illinois
Dealer for HeatMaster SS
Stihl MS 290
Troy Bilt 27 ton splitter

CountryBoyJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 686
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: MF 10,000 E
    • View Profile
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2014, 02:10:23 PM »

The answer to your first question for me is...yes.  It works by heating water as you use it.  As you draw hot water from the tank, new stove-heated water dumps in.  The side arm heats the water while it is not being used.  It is entirely possible to drain your tank of hot water and have to wait for it to regenerate.  If you are low-usage, that would be fine.  But, filling a hot tub, having 4 people take a shower in a row, running the washing machine AND dish washer AND taking a shower are no problem for my setup!

I believe the pressure head for both units are about the same.  A 10-plate would be a restriction.  But, a 20-plate would be fine.
Logged
2013 F250 6.2L Lariat
Stihl MS290
DHT 27 Ton Log Splitter
Woodchuck Log Jack
56, 57, 58 Ferguson TO-35
Knox County, IN

ITO

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 254
  • OWF Brand: HS1
  • OWF Model: 555
    • View Profile
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2014, 05:46:40 PM »

 Air Force, I am assuming you have electric DHW? Do you have a back up boiler? There are many different ways to do DHW, what you have as an indoor system will make a difference in which way you want to heat your water assuming you do not want to get into changing your indoor loop also.
Logged

Sprinter

  • Do it right the first time, its cheaper In the long run
  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 474
  • OWF Brand: Indoor Boiler
  • OWF Model: Menominee
  • In the long run
    • View Profile
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 05:57:38 PM »

Figure the btu load for each. Will the boiler circ be running all the time to be able to do the supply side FP method. Or how will you control the boiler supply for the heater. I like the output of the flat plate especially if you have it on a zone valve to control demand. This is if your boiler is not running 24/7. There are some sidearms with big output also but not many build them that way. Instead of one tube down the middle of 2"" pipe we put in several 1/2" or 3/8" inside the 2" pipe for more surface area. But you are still relying on thermosyphoning to get the job done. A sidearm has the least head loss, but the flat plate is also low when flow is within specs. It would be safe to size a sidearm on the high side for on demand like mentioned above.
Logged
Michigan Thumber

AirForcePOL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 864
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: G400
    • View Profile
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 06:24:42 PM »

Yes I have a electric water heater.  I have forced air for my heating system.  I plan on leaving the circulator on 24/7.  My furnace is only about 10 ft. from my water heater. 
Logged
Athens, Illinois
Dealer for HeatMaster SS
Stihl MS 290
Troy Bilt 27 ton splitter

jnicol6600

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 30
  • OWF Brand: heatmaster
  • OWF Model: 6000e
    • View Profile
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 07:05:12 PM »

I initially installed a side arm. It didnt keep up with two showers back to back and would run out on my kids baths. Now I have to admit that my hardy didnt always supply 180 degree water when my radiant heat was on so that could make a difference. I installed a 20 plate before my water heater and havent ran out of hot water since. Easy decision for me if I had to do it over.
Logged

AirForcePOL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 864
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: G400
    • View Profile
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 07:47:24 PM »

Thanks for your advice guys.  I've got some time to think about it but I think I have a good start. 
Logged
Athens, Illinois
Dealer for HeatMaster SS
Stihl MS 290
Troy Bilt 27 ton splitter

Scott7m

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3740
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: E Series
    • View Profile
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2014, 10:09:48 PM »

Go with the 20 plate, I think you'll be very happy with it
Logged
Dealer for:  Heatmaster, Empyre, Earth, Ridgewood, and Woodmaster outdoor furnaces
Furnace Parts Dealer
Pelican water treatment systems
606-316-9697

slimjim

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 158
  • OWF Brand: Wood Doctor / HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: 14,000. / G 200 and G 400
  • Southern Maine
    • View Profile
    • www.mainlycustom.com
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2014, 03:43:32 AM »

Country boy john, I would not call that bucking, lots of folks use the plate exchangers and they work great, I do get concerned however about the plates plugging up and putting more restriction on the loop, I have done sidearm units as many as 6 on one manifold with temp gauges and balancing valves that will give you continuous very hot water out of a 3/4 inch line at 40 pounds of pressure, this was for a Dairy barns rinse lines, it worked great but in hindsight a plate exchanger would more than likely have been better suited, I guess my only vice there is that I love the look of all that $copper
Logged
Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

AirForcePOL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 864
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: G400
    • View Profile
Re: Need advice on DHW
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2014, 07:43:30 AM »

That was another concern of mine slim. I have very hard well water.  Will that cause problems? I thought about just making it easy to disconnect so that I can clean it every year. 
Logged
Athens, Illinois
Dealer for HeatMaster SS
Stihl MS 290
Troy Bilt 27 ton splitter
Pages: [1] 2 3