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Messages - donahuej

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1
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Heat draw from a plate exchanger
« on: February 26, 2012, 05:50:35 PM »
240' copper - 140' pex total 400' did not add the 90's...thanks for the help.  No problems just was wondering what y'all were seeing.

Thanks again,

Jamie

2
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Heat draw from a plate exchanger
« on: February 26, 2012, 09:15:14 AM »
Sorry 140 feet (round trip) of therompex in that number.  The coper is in the crawl...

3
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Heat draw from a plate exchanger
« on: February 26, 2012, 08:35:41 AM »
B&G PL36 about 400 feet of 1" copper suppling DHW and two water to air exchangers.

4
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Home built
« on: February 26, 2012, 08:33:48 AM »
Another quick question.  Anyone here have any luck with plans or sketches for a home built boiler?  Thinking of giving this a shot for my shop because it some 300 feet from the house - forget heat loss not sure I could even look at the bill for the thermopex :bag:  We have a gas powered welder and access to any type of steel you could ask for.  These boilers are fairly basic in design just seeing if anyone had a plan set or a sketch they might recommend.

Thanks again for all the help,

Jamie

5
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Heat draw from a plate exchanger
« on: February 26, 2012, 06:37:46 AM »
Hi all -

Quick question; how much heat loss do you see across a 30 plate heat exchanger?  I have a 30 plate stainless with 1" supply and returns, 1" copper for my boiler and well water supply loops and I see 25 -30 degree drop when filling the big tub in the house. My boiler uper limit is 180 degrees lower is 170ish. I have digital temp gauge with leads zip tied and metal taped to my copper lines right after the thermopex enters the crawl so my readings are right on the money. Normal or what?  I have a constant supply of really hot water, not complaining, just want to see what others are experiencing..

Thnaks,

Jamie

6
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Wood consumption thread
« on: February 10, 2012, 02:47:36 PM »
American Royal 7300 heating a 4000 square foot rancher with 14' ceilings, wife and two teenage daughters constantly using the free hot water.  In the spring & fall I also heat our 18x36 in ground pool.  I will use 8 chords this season - it's been mild here in NJ.  The pool would eat half that if I wanted to keep it at 80 year round; we use it to heat he pool May and in the fall October-ish.

7
Plumbing / Re: question on 20 plate also
« on: February 08, 2012, 04:13:52 PM »
Jack,

You really have two choices when you go the plate route before or after.  I just couldn't see using the tank in front of what basically is a on demand setup with the plate exchanger.  The on demand water heaters like Rinnai have no tank.  As we all know there are pros and cons to both, a plate in the supply side will solve your issue for sure. Take a look at the cost difference for 30-40-50 plate not much more money and better water flow. In my design my circ pump was going to run 24x7 so an on demand setup in the crawl space after the water heater worked for me - never run out of hot water - my gas valve is off to my water heater and I love it!

Good luck,

JamieJamie

8
Plumbing / Re: question on 20 plate also
« on: February 04, 2012, 07:58:23 AM »
Most people here who install systems for others say a XX plate exchanger before the water tank is best.  I understand the thinking but I couldn't get past why we would want to heat water just to sit in the tank and bleed off your precious BTUs.  I have a 50 plate after my water heater and before my two air exchangers, no mixing valve and my boiler set at 185.  Yes the water is flippin hot, about 2/3 on the cold side to take a shower, but I never ever have load problem - washer, dishwasher teenage girls in a Jacuzzi tub - no issues.  My thinking with these systems is the simpler the better, side arm & pump were just variables I chose to remove from my system.  I would think differently, safety first, if I were getting paid to install but for me simple is better.

9
Plumbing / Re: HELP??? Looking for help 20 Plate DHW install
« on: February 04, 2012, 07:50:43 AM »
Do you know the return temperature to the boiler?  If not I recommend spend you few bucks and put temp probes on the supply and return lines, they will let you dial your unit in.  I have probes on the boiler supply/return and in my crawl when I exit my thermopex to copper.  Having readings at these points has really helped me understand how I'm using the available BTUs.  Many on here say you want to see a 20 degree delta supply and return as the sweet spot.  There are a number of factors that come into play but the 20 degree delta T has worked for me.  In the colder months Dec-March I crank my top to 185 to meet the demand of my 50 plate at two 18 x 24 air exchangers never have a problem.

Good luck,

Jamie

10
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Ash door/Grate or not
« on: February 03, 2012, 10:37:26 AM »
Before I bought mine I thought the same - what's the big deal?  Well it is night and day to have shaker grates, an ash door and pan.  I can empty mine running at full bore and not miss a beat. If I have to empty the ashes in the firebox, without the ash drawer and door, the fire would basically have to be out to do it.  I'm sure you can manage by raking the coals aside but the door is the best.  Hit the shaker, put on welding gloves pull out the tray and dump all set for another week - no fuss.  Well worth it in my mind.

Good luck,

Jamie

11
Plumbing / Re: HELP??? Looking for help 20 Plate DHW install
« on: February 01, 2012, 02:20:31 PM »
Matt,

I have vales after my plate exchanger (I put a 50 to not restrict water flow) that cuts the supply to my water to air exchngers in the warmer months.  I'm set up after my tank in an on-demand fashion and have never ever run out of smokin hot water.  I run this way till about June here in NJ and fire it back up in September because I heat my pool May-June and Sept-October.   If it were just DHW I don't think  l'd load the stove but every three maybe four days.

Jamie

12
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: What comes with boilers?
« on: January 30, 2012, 11:10:56 AM »
I don't know why you would skimp on the underground loop...not worth the 4 bucks a foot difference in price in my mind...take a look a picture number one and then look at number two...you decide...


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13
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: What comes with boilers?
« on: January 30, 2012, 07:32:55 AM »
Bottom line - you will pay close to the cost of the unit for your install maybe more if you let someone else do the work.  Depending on what you do once you settle on the line set coming from the boiler, there is a fair amount of expense for, water to air and or water to water for DHW & if your are already hot water base board.  If you add any goodies like a garage heat, pool or a hot tub, figure more of the same; pipe, pump & exchanger.  I shopped for over a year before I found a American Royal dealer going out of business, he was a builder and had these as an option.  Well we all know how crappy the hosing market has been and I got mine at a good price, 4k including four PL36 pumps with flange kits, couple extra blower motors and 6 gallons of additive.  I did all my own work, ditch, concrete pad, pluming and duct work.  I have 60 feet of buried thermopex, 150 feet of 1" copper for a total run of 420'. two water to air exchangers (two heating zones), 50 plate water to water DHW exchanger and a stainless water to water for the pool.  The fittings add up, you need full port ball valves everywhere and think about bypassing each exchanger for services and or warmer months.  It's a ton of work and a big chunk of money to lay out but I could not deal with another 7k propane bill, yes 7000 dollars to heat my house....my return is pretty quick and well worth it. Never run out of hot water, whole house is nice and warm and a heated pool in the spring stretches our season.

Good luck - it is worth the time and money - it's hard to get started but worth it :thumbup:.

Jamie

14
Pools & Hot Tubs / Re: 1st Post in the new area!!
« on: January 29, 2012, 07:13:54 AM »
Stainless for the pool exchanger - reasons mentioned above......

15
Pools & Hot Tubs / Re: 1st Post in the new area!!
« on: January 14, 2012, 05:03:18 PM »
m-44 a stainless heat exchanger....It's easy to set up the major issue will be water flow.  Meaning if you use your main pool pump like i did you will need to turn the boiler down or have an adjustable speed pump on the boiler side...think about it for a second 300-600 gallons of boiler waterer transfering heat to 18k.....slow flow is the key...

Jamie

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