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Author Topic: Circualtion pumps  (Read 2446 times)

akwoodburner

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Circualtion pumps
« on: October 27, 2013, 06:57:18 AM »

Hello everyone, new to the forum and new to the wood boiler world.  I'm currently installing a empyre elite XT 200 at my home here in Alaska.  I am tying into my existing oil boiler through a plate exchanger.  My question is regarding the circulation pumps.  I have one hooked up to the optimizer but do I also need one somewhere in line on the loop going to the house to move the water from the boiler to the plate exchanger?  Any help would be appreciated!
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Scott7m

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2013, 07:02:26 AM »

Yes you for sure do as the optimizer only circulates through the optomizer loop
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cbofei

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2013, 07:47:12 AM »

just finished up a similiar installation as yours.  I installed my second pump inside the house right before the exchanger.  That way if it dies in the middle of the night I can be warm and comfortable replacing it. 
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akwoodburner

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 08:28:31 PM »

Thanks for the help guys!  How do you guys like your elites so far?  Any problems you’ve encountered? Any other helpful tips?  I'm hoping to be up and running here tomorrow.  Snow will be here soon so I need to get this thing running.  Thanks again
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Scott7m

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2013, 08:42:15 PM »

I was the first person to run an xt series boiler, it worked well.  Just learn to stack your wood because bridging can be a def issue, also be sure to use your pro former, it helps a LOT
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cbofei

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 09:52:28 AM »

been running great last two weeks.  this past week the temps have gotten unseasonably warm, highs in the mid 70's.  No smoke no cresote build up it just sits there for hours on end, I can't believe it does go out.  I can't believe it stays lit.  Scott by Proformer are you referring to the water treatment?
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slimjim

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 10:04:56 AM »

I think what he is discussing is the buffering tank/mixing manifold that I believe is mandatory for warranty.
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Scott7m

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 07:23:18 PM »

No, I'm talking about the powder additive that your supposed to get with your stove.  Shoulda got a 20 pound bucket on the new models.  It is a creosote preventer and makes cleaning an absolute breeze. 

The optimizer is the boiler protection system slim
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slimjim

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2013, 05:29:53 AM »

Ok Scott, thanks for clarifying that for me, You have me confused though, I thought you said you use cardboard to burn out creosote, how much is that stuff, I might like to try some with a couple of my install customers who could not afford our stoves, Dave never mentioned it at any of the shows we did together this summer, is he supposed to be using it? So the optimizer, is that thier version of a buffering tank, and is it also required, Dave has asked me to do some installs for his customers and I want it to be done right but he does not seem really knowledgable about it.
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Scott7m

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2013, 07:39:21 AM »

Ok Scott, thanks for clarifying that for me, You have me confused though, I thought you said you use cardboard to burn out creosote, how much is that stuff, I might like to try some with a couple of my install customers who could not afford our stoves, Dave never mentioned it at any of the shows we did together this summer, is he supposed to be using it? So the optimizer, is that thier version of a buffering tank, and is it also required, Dave has asked me to do some installs for his customers and I want it to be done right but he does not seem really knowledgable about it.

I never put cardboard in a gasser...  You've seen on here where a lot of us clean the stove with cardboard sometimes but that's only in the conventionals.

In regard to the powder, I've sold it to several guys using your 250's and they love it, they said brushes used to be tight and real draggy going through, now they aren't doing it as often and the brush simply slides through with ease.  It's a powder and you burn a small scoop of it once a day, just sprinkle it on your wood.  It releases a film that helps break down creosote and puts a coating on the steel in the firebox and tubes the makes it where creosote also has a hard time sticking, it's also supposed to adjust the ph of the ash bed so it's not as harsh.  Lots of good points about it and yes he should be using it.  A buddy of mine ran a pro 400 all winter last year and cleaned his tubes 3 times.

The optimizer is quite simply a primary and secondary loop.  As you know most boilers have a primary and secondary loop to protect the boiler, this is the Same way this works with the optimizer.   The Santos's valve in the optimizer blends some hot water from the primary loop with the secondary loop return when temps are to cold
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Scott7m

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2013, 09:38:02 AM »

Slim what's with the comment about customers who couldn't afford your stoves?!  Are you really that thin skinned?  I'm not saying any stove is perfect because none are, but to think that only stoves you dont sell could benefit from this product is kinda silly.  I sent some of this stuff to several optimizer 250 customers all of which posted positive results, one of which was a guy you know, martyinmi, but starting to use this product after you've been burning does take a bit of time to start seeing the benefits, when customers make there first fire with this and get this n the bare steel, results are even more dramatic.
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slimjim

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2013, 11:20:52 AM »

Thin skinned ? remember I'm the guy that installed it for them, if I were thin skinned would I be installing somebody elses product, some folks can't see the benefits of what we build for the money, if they can't afford our product , I would rather that they buy a competitors unit  than burn oil. You have several times mentioned that our units are expensive but never mentioned why, do you do that as a sales pitch? How many times have you bashed Shaver on here when one of thier customers comes on to ask questions, all they want is some advice not a sales pitch. How much is the product that you use in your boilers, I might like to try it with some of my install customers, we don't use it in our 250's, if the customer of one of our 250's is having a problem with creosote ANYWHERE in his unit I would like to hear from him because somewhere there is a problem rather it is our fault or thiers and we will solve the problem right here on the open forum so that others may learn from it.
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maine owb

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Re: Circualtion pumps
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2013, 12:20:27 PM »

you need a circulator on both sides of the heat exchanger. The circulator on the wood boiler side usually always runs. match it to your friction calculations. The smaller the better. I use the grundfos three speed and use the middle setting using about .65 amps.
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