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Author Topic: New plumbing  (Read 975 times)

FrozenMongrel

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New plumbing
« on: September 04, 2017, 09:17:15 PM »

So I removed my old memco oil boiler and all of the plumbing associated with it so all that I have left is the heat exchanger and the copper runs to the baseboard zones. I'm going to be setting the system up with a primary/secondary design with the outdoor boiler HX integrated into the primary loop. I have 3 heating zones currently and a 4th one planned in the future when I finish my basment.

I'll be using a plate HX for DHW fed off the primary loop with a monoflow tee. My largest zone only has 30' of baseboard. The 2nd zone is about half that and the 3rd zone is one 7' baseboard. All zones are 3/4" copper. The house was setup with zone circulators, but I was debating plumbing it with a variable speed ECM pump and zone valves. I have a bunch of Taco 007 pumps and a controller for up to 6 zones, so I may just end up going that route, but with the low flow requirements I don't want to over pump the zones and end up wasting energy by not having the flow slow enough for efficient heat transfer at the baseboards.

I have a 120k btu oil boiler that will also be plumbed into the primary loop via close tee's, but will only be for a backup system if for some reason I can't run the outdoor boiler. I'll probably set that up to have a constant 120* flow of water through it to avoid cold starting. I won't have that installed right away, just going to be running the G200 and getting the oil setup at some point in the future. I'll try and get a diagram of what I'm planning drawn up in the next few days and posted.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 09:42:33 PM by FrozenMongrel »
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E Yoder

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 02:06:16 AM »

Sounds like a good one for a Dp pump and zone valves (like you said).
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Smokeless

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 10:07:49 AM »

I have used the taco sentry zone valves with good luck easy to wire. And have end switch.
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slimjim

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 10:29:33 AM »

The biggest issue with a single circ and zone valves is when you lose a circ, you lose all your heat, have a spare on hand!
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FrozenMongrel

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 12:00:48 PM »

The biggest issue with a single circ and zone valves is when you lose a circ, you lose all your heat, have a spare on hand!

That was my thinking. Are there any issues with plumbing it with closely spaced tees and zone valves? That way if I need to switch to zone circulators it wouldn't be a major job, just swapping out the zv for flanges and pumps.
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mlappin

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 02:09:44 PM »

Might wanna look into doing all primary secondary loops, pumps are usually cheaper and much more reliable than zoning valves.
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Smokeless

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2017, 03:06:47 PM »

Don't forget  a. Zone valve control is different than a circulator control.
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FrozenMongrel

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 06:29:21 PM »

Might wanna look into doing all primary secondary loops, pumps are usually cheaper and much more reliable than zoning valves.

But with the extremely low flow requirements of each of my loops is it possible to efficiently turn a pump down low enough for correct heat transfer through the baseboards?
 
Don't forget  a. Zone valve control is different than a circulator control.

Yup, that's why I may end up with zone circulators if I can get the correct flow out of them for efficient heat transfer. I already have most of the components I need for circulators, but I don't want to be wasting energy for the next 30 years that I run this system.
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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2017, 09:26:20 PM »

Frozen. 
  Grundfos has the alpha 15-58. It is a very good pump. I have one in my system.  It has 7 settings 
 3 pressure.
 1 auto
 3 flow.
  It has a lite digital display that toggles back and forth between watts and gpm. Letting you know exactly what it is flowing and using for energy. Very easy to change settings. Just push the desired setting.
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FrozenMongrel

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2017, 08:50:54 AM »

Frozen. 
  Grundfos has the alpha 15-58. It is a very good pump. I have one in my system.  It has 7 settings 
 3 pressure.
 1 auto
 3 flow.
  It has a lite digital display that toggles back and forth between watts and gpm. Letting you know exactly what it is flowing and using for energy. Very easy to change settings. Just push the desired setting.

Just 1 of those has enough head and flow to pump my entire system. It would be very expensive to install one for every circuit only to have to flowing 1-2 GPM
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Smokeless

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2017, 10:51:57 AM »

That's why I only have one. Lol.
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E Yoder

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2017, 02:33:16 AM »

Frozen. 
  Grundfos has the alpha 15-58. It is a very good pump. I have one in my system.  It has 7 settings 
 3 pressure.
 1 auto
 3 flow.
  It has a lite digital display that toggles back and forth between watts and gpm. Letting you know exactly what it is flowing and using for energy. Very easy to change settings. Just push the desired setting.

Just 1 of those has enough head and flow to pump my entire system. It would be very expensive to install one for every circuit only to have to flowing 1-2 GPM
Although I usually use pumps instead of zone valves, in your case a Delta p circ (Alpha, Viridian, B&G Auto, etc) might make more sense. I'd just keep a spare circulator and zone valve on hand. The electric savings would be worth it and you'd be grossly over pumped otherwise. It'll heat but be quite wasteful.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 02:37:57 AM by E Yoder »
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FrozenMongrel

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2017, 06:40:29 PM »

I thought I had replied here, but apparently I didn't. I'm going with zone circulators as I already have them and a controller for them. I also am thinking about going to radiant floor heating someday instead of baseboards, so I'd need the pumps then anyway. The cost of the controller and zone valves is quite a bit upfront while I'm starting a business and income is low. I'll pay the little bit extra each month for electricity and can always swap it around down the road if it really is a problem. I'll slowly upgrade each of the pumps to an ECM one as they die (all of them are used but work well, so to keep initial costs low I'll just use them). If they don't die, I'll just replace them as I can afford them. I should be ready to start plumbing it all up next weekend.
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FrozenMongrel

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2017, 07:00:10 PM »

This is the basic plan for the layout. I did switch out the separate drain valves on each circuit for the end ball valves having integrated drains. I figured it would be easier to bleed air out of the secondary circuits with the drains at the end of the circuits.
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slimjim

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Re: New plumbing
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2017, 04:24:31 AM »

Well done Matt, hey if you like I have a bunch of black iron and brass fittings that I have taken out when rebuilding manifolds, if you want to take the time to tear them apart at my shop with the vise, you can have them.
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