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Author Topic: Water temp.  (Read 1500 times)

fireboss

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2017, 08:01:13 AM »

I donít know how it would be switching back and forth! Maybe someone who knows will chime in . Everyone around here mostly has it directly into the oil burner. I have a taco 007 between the FPHE and the oil-burner I am sure I t is sufficient. I have a Taco 14 going from the Woodburner to the FPHE and itís only 20 feet away , I ordered it by mistake I was going to put a taco 11 , but i figure bigger is better !
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Roger2561

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2017, 08:42:32 AM »

I donít know how it would be switching back and forth! Maybe someone who knows will chime in . Everyone around here mostly has it directly into the oil burner. I have a taco 007 between the FPHE and the oil-burner I am sure I t is sufficient. I have a Taco 14 going from the Woodburner to the FPHE and itís only 20 feet away , I ordered it by mistake I was going to put a taco 11 , but i figure bigger is better !

I decided to try something, I by-passed the Hx and fed directly into the oil burner from the OWB.  It helped but not a  lot.  When all 4 zones are calling for heat at the same time, the oil burner temp gauge will be at 150, not the 130 or 140 that I've been reading.  However, if only 1 or 2 of the zones are calling for heat, the temp guage will then shoot up to 165 to 170.  So, it's obvious to me that there is a restriction.  I'm wondering if the pipe from the Hx to oil burner and back is undersized.  I'm using the stuff my CB dealer gave, it's the green thermopex tubing, but without the insulation.  The ID of it is only 3/4 inch, although they sell it as 1".  I'm wondering if I should re-plumb it with 1" or 1 1/4" copper and see if that makes a difference.  It will have to wait 'til spring when I'm not needing the heat of course.  My other problem is I'm trying to come up with a way of having the water run through the oil burner but not through the restrictive 3/4" ports on the oil burner.  If someone else can chime in with thoughts, please do, I appreciate it.  Thanks.  Roger   
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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2017, 12:06:01 PM »

When I plumbed in my oil boiler I used 1 1/4" copper , so I decided to plumb that side of my fphx the same size. I have a 70 plate hx I believe it is something like 5 1/2 x 12" with 1 1/4" ports. My old house was much larger so now it's probably overkill but it still works fine. I have a taco 007 that runs that loop all the time. I have the water flowing from the hx to the 1 1/4' return on the boiler then returning to the hx at the end of my supply piping after the circulators. I had it hooked up that way at the other house too except the circulators there were on the return side instead. There is not really any restriction that way and my temp gauges on both sides of the hx read within a few degrees of each other. Just the way I decided to do it , I'm sure other ways work as well.
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wreckit87

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2017, 12:37:19 PM »

Roger, how long are your runs of baseboard? Also when you bypassed the HX, are you still running the second pump for the oil burner to feed your zones? I'm assuming you just have 4 zone valves to heat those zones, with the indoor pump serving them? I noticed you turned up the inside pump earlier in addition to the outside pump. To get more heat out of the HX, you'd need to speed up the OWB pump and slow down the inside pump. Depending on zone temps and length of baseboard runs, you may be able to drop the inside pump back to 2 or even 1 to keep the temp up across the plate. Hard to say without looking at it so maybe I'm out in left field but that's what I'm seeing. May need to upsize the supply loop as well like you said, again dependent on load. 1" PEX is just slightly bigger than 3/4" copper and unless the house is pretty small, that's not enough to serve 4 zones of baseboard
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Roger2561

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2017, 01:44:28 PM »

Roger, how long are your runs of baseboard? Also when you bypassed the HX, are you still running the second pump for the oil burner to feed your zones? I'm assuming you just have 4 zone valves to heat those zones, with the indoor pump serving them? I noticed you turned up the inside pump earlier in addition to the outside pump. To get more heat out of the HX, you'd need to speed up the OWB pump and slow down the inside pump. Depending on zone temps and length of baseboard runs, you may be able to drop the inside pump back to 2 or even 1 to keep the temp up across the plate. Hard to say without looking at it so maybe I'm out in left field but that's what I'm seeing. May need to upsize the supply loop as well like you said, again dependent on load. 1" PEX is just slightly bigger than 3/4" copper and unless the house is pretty small, that's not enough to serve 4 zones of baseboard

wreckit87 - Well, I just "tried" to flush the heat exchanger and the supply side from the OWB is plugged.  It's only allowing a trickle of water through it.  I guess I didn't do that great of job when I flushed it in the spring.  How does one unplug it?  I knew there was a restriction somewhere and all I had to do was find it. 

To answer your questions; yes, I did turn up both the circ between the fphx and oil burner to number 3 as well as the one on the OWB.  The longest run I have is approx. 54 feet, the second longest run is 30 feet.  The kitchen has a wall hung convector, I do not remember the BTU rating.  I was talking to my brother lamenting about the fact I wasn't getting the results I expected and mentioned replacing the supply line from the OWB.  I've been seriously thinking about replacing the E-Classic 1400 and replacing the supply with a larger diameter pipe was one of the things on my list.  Any ideas how I can still tie into my oil burner but without the restrictions of the 3/4 inch port where the T&P valve sits and the oil burner drain?  Roger
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wreckit87

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2017, 03:28:48 PM »

Roger, how long are your runs of baseboard? Also when you bypassed the HX, are you still running the second pump for the oil burner to feed your zones? I'm assuming you just have 4 zone valves to heat those zones, with the indoor pump serving them? I noticed you turned up the inside pump earlier in addition to the outside pump. To get more heat out of the HX, you'd need to speed up the OWB pump and slow down the inside pump. Depending on zone temps and length of baseboard runs, you may be able to drop the inside pump back to 2 or even 1 to keep the temp up across the plate. Hard to say without looking at it so maybe I'm out in left field but that's what I'm seeing. May need to upsize the supply loop as well like you said, again dependent on load. 1" PEX is just slightly bigger than 3/4" copper and unless the house is pretty small, that's not enough to serve 4 zones of baseboard

wreckit87 - Well, I just "tried" to flush the heat exchanger and the supply side from the OWB is plugged.  It's only allowing a trickle of water through it.  I guess I didn't do that great of job when I flushed it in the spring.  How does one unplug it?  I knew there was a restriction somewhere and all I had to do was find it. 

To answer your questions; yes, I did turn up both the circ between the fphx and oil burner to number 3 as well as the one on the OWB.  The longest run I have is approx. 54 feet, the second longest run is 30 feet.  The kitchen has a wall hung convector, I do not remember the BTU rating.  I was talking to my brother lamenting about the fact I wasn't getting the results I expected and mentioned replacing the supply line from the OWB.  I've been seriously thinking about replacing the E-Classic 1400 and replacing the supply with a larger diameter pipe was one of the things on my list.  Any ideas how I can still tie into my oil burner but without the restrictions of the 3/4 inch port where the T&P valve sits and the oil burner drain?  Roger

I've honestly never seen one plugged to be honest, but I'm told vinegar does a fine job or The Works toilet cleaner in small doses just circulated with a puddle pump or transfer pump. With those runs 1" PEX is going to be pretty close quarters for a supply main. As for the pumps, I know you turned them both to 3 before the bypass- to raise the temp on the load side, you would need to slow down the pump between the HX and oil burner to keep the water in the HX longer, while speeding up the OWB pump to keep it hot. If you still have both of them running on 3 you're more than maxing out the 1" underground capacity. What is the length of your underground run? I'm not grasping why there is restriction from the T&P valve- what's that all about? 3/4" black iron has almost the same ID as your 1" PEX so that little bit of restriction shouldn't be causing any trouble. The total distance of your OWB loop and approximate square footage of the house would be beneficial in deciding whether or not larger underground would help anything
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Roger2561

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2017, 05:18:13 PM »

wreckit - Tomorrow I'm taking the hx off the wall and see what happened.  I'm hoping that it isn't anything too serious.  The square footage I'm heating a 30'x40' full basement, 1st floor living quarters of the same dimensions, an apartment approx. 1000' sq ft, my kitchen approx. 450 sq ft.  Everything is kept at 70 degrees F with exception of the basement, it's at 60.  I'll lower the speed of the pump between the hx and oil burner to the #2 position.  Thanks for the tip.  The hx is located approx. 110 feet from the OWB, that makes it an approx. 220 foot round trip, give or take a foot or 2.  This house is an 1840's farmhouse that's been renovated.  The insulation is maybe 85% effective, can't plug every leak.   Thanks for the help.  I appreciate it.  Roger 
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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2017, 06:06:13 PM »

I would setup a pump going backwards from normal flow to pump cleaner through the heat exchanger. If you try just letting it soak it will probably never get completely clean. Vinegar might be all you need but if you are in a hurry, something stronger may be worth using instead.

If it regularly gets clogged up, I would think about getting a spare that you can swap out when needed.
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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2017, 03:03:57 AM »

I would setup a pump going backwards from normal flow to pump cleaner through the heat exchanger. If you try just letting it soak it will probably never get completely clean. Vinegar might be all you need but if you are in a hurry, something stronger may be worth using instead.

If it regularly gets clogged up, I would think about getting a spare that you can swap out when needed.

This is the first time I've ever had it plug up on me.  Oh course it had to happen during this cold snap.  Thankfully I had the foresight to install the by-pass so I can continue using the OWB to heat the house. 

When I flush the hx I always back flush it.  When I tried to back flush, the water will not flow at all.  I know there's nothing wrong with the pump I'm using, it pumps water (I'm using vinegar for the back flush) through the house side without any problems but when I try to flush the OWB side, nothing.  And, yes, I did open the valves.  When I get it removed I'll have a better view and I'll see what I can do.  I'll keep everyone posted on progress or the lack thereof.  Roger 
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fireboss

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2017, 04:16:26 AM »

Maybe put it in a 5 gallon pail and fill it up with vinegar and let it soak for awhile and then flush it
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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2017, 05:49:23 AM »

"The works" will blast out crud like nothing I've ever seen. But I'm wondering where the crud is coming from. ?
Does sounds like you don't have enough flow coming in to satisfy all the zones. Larger piping would be one fix or more emitters so you can heat with lower temp water.
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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2017, 06:17:16 AM »

Maybe put it in a 5 gallon pail and fill it up with vinegar and let it soak for awhile and then flush it

That's not a bad idea.  First things first, get it disconnected and removed from the wall.  Thanks for the idea.  Roger
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Roger2561

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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2017, 06:18:57 AM »

"The works" will blast out crud like nothing I've ever seen. But I'm wondering where the crud is coming from. ?
Does sounds like you don't have enough flow coming in to satisfy all the zones. Larger piping would be one fix or more emitters so you can heat with lower temp water.

The crud concerns me too.  I have clue where it's come from.  When you say larger piping, do you from the OWB?  Thanks.  Roger
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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2017, 06:55:26 AM »

Yes, from the owb. The long run is more restriction than the short loop into the boiler from the flat plate.
Sometimes adding a few emitters is cheaper than digging up pipe I've seen guys on hearth.com making custom tall covers for their copper baseboard. Convects much more air and heats with lower temp water. Just an idea.
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Re: Water temp.
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2017, 06:59:32 AM »

I have also heard that radiator flush works good for flushing out the hx
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