Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Username: Password:
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: Radiant walls  (Read 637 times)

E Yoder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 999
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: GS 100
    • View Profile
    • www.heatmasterfurnace.com
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2018, 05:06:47 AM »

I would fish the supply and return lines through behind the drywall, yes. But as for running the loops vertically, what would be the advantage to that? I want the heat down low if anything, and getting transfer plates stuck behind finished drywall would be near impossible. Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, but I feel like horizontal is the way to go in my case?
I wasn't thinking you would use transfer plates with 160į water. Just heat up the air space with pex. I was thinking oval vertical loops crossing over the studs once to minimize the chance of hitting it with a nail.
Just ideas. No big deal.
Logged
Install Heatmaster furnaces, dealer support in VA.
High in the Blue Ridge mountains.

RSI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2902
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: G200
    • View Profile
    • RSI
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2018, 06:39:58 AM »

That would probably work ok on inside walls but seems like you would have a lot of heatloss if you run 160 degree water in an outside wall. I would think on outside walls you would want to use transfer plates and keep the temp as low as possible. Also, probably a good idea to put a radiant barrier behind the transfer plates to avoid losing too much radiant heat trough the wall.
Logged

wreckit87

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 518
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: C375
  • Just a stupid pipefitter...
    • View Profile
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2018, 02:17:16 PM »

That would probably work ok on inside walls but seems like you would have a lot of heatloss if you run 160 degree water in an outside wall. I would think on outside walls you would want to use transfer plates and keep the temp as low as possible. Also, probably a good idea to put a radiant barrier behind the transfer plates to avoid losing too much radiant heat trough the wall.

There's 2-3" of closed cell against the block and another 3" of air space behind the drywall, think the loss would be noticeable? The foam is always room temparature (and below grade, so ~55 degrees outside anyway), I guess I hadn't considered there being any noticeable loss to the exterior. Was kinda hoping whatever is lost through the plates would just convect up and warm the drywall above? Maybe I'm nuts
Logged
F150 Platinum
Ugly brown '81 Crown Vic 800 RWHP project
Silverado 2500HD work beater
Victory Jackpot
Victory Highball
Can-Am Renegade 1000
Cushman Truckster 3 wheeler (Steve)
Bobcat S175 2 speed
Stihl 291

Slumlord from hell with a hydronics addiction

Foley, MN

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3907
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2018, 08:38:01 PM »

Watching close.

Kicked my self when we remodeled the bedroom, should have installed ultra fin then, didnít hear of it till years later.

Still have the office to remodel, it shares a wall with our bedroom, Iím thinking place the pex, staple a layer of ply foil over the studs then cover the office side in drywall. The ideal of placing registers at the top and bottom also has merit. Fire stops are already in the walls and I tend to leave em, so only the bottom half of the wall would get heat anyways, Iíd also stay at least a foot off the floor as we have the tall baseboards.

If it works may redo the upstair bedrooms the same, a lot easier than tearing the floors up to place ultra fin in the joist bays. Ainít tearing the downstairs ceilings out just to install radiant, those were all over lays anyways as I wasnít about to pull lathe and plaster down in my face.
Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana

RSI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2902
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: G200
    • View Profile
    • RSI
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2018, 09:42:12 PM »

If you have 3" of air space I would put a layer of foil backed foam or bubble wrap against the foam. It doesn't cost that much and should reflect the radiant back into the room. I am guessing that the lower you can run the water temp, the less heat loss you would have without the radiant barrier. If you only end up needing to run 110 degree water then it may not make any difference.

Logged

E Yoder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 999
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: GS 100
    • View Profile
    • www.heatmasterfurnace.com
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2018, 06:13:12 AM »

Watching close.

Kicked my self when we remodeled the bedroom, should have installed ultra fin then, didnít hear of it till years later.

Still have the office to remodel, it shares a wall with our bedroom, Iím thinking place the pex, staple a layer of ply foil over the studs then cover the office side in drywall. The ideal of placing registers at the top and bottom also has merit. Fire stops are already in the walls and I tend to leave em, so only the bottom half of the wall would get heat anyways, Iíd also stay at least a foot off the floor as we have the tall baseboards.

If it works may redo the upstair bedrooms the same, a lot easier than tearing the floors up to place ultra fin in the joist bays. Ainít tearing the downstairs ceilings out just to install radiant, those were all over lays anyways as I wasnít about to pull lathe and plaster down in my face.
I have this idea floating around in my head that on a retrofit / remodel job you could cut the register holes and drill down through the bottom plates into the crawlspace and pull pex up into the wall cavity and back down. Then install the register covers and you'd have a convector in a room that didn't have good options otherwise.
I hope I'll have time this summer to build something like that and tie it into the lines in my shop just to see how much airflow would start rising up through the stud bay.
Logged
Install Heatmaster furnaces, dealer support in VA.
High in the Blue Ridge mountains.

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3907
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2018, 11:25:55 AM »

Copper pipe would work even better.
Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana

E Yoder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 999
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: GS 100
    • View Profile
    • www.heatmasterfurnace.com
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2018, 11:41:03 AM »

Yes, but I wasn't sure how to get it inside the wall.   :)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 12:01:46 PM by E Yoder »
Logged
Install Heatmaster furnaces, dealer support in VA.
High in the Blue Ridge mountains.

sceptre74

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 183
  • OWF Brand: Portage and Main
  • OWF Model: BL 28-40
    • View Profile
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2018, 05:39:11 PM »

I know a been a while since this post has been active, but I just came across it and I'm intrigued.
I had a flood in the basement this summer and had to gut the flooring and 2 feet of drywall at the bottom the walls. I didn't have any heat down there but was planning on putting a baseboard heater in each you this time around. Then I came across this thread. Now what I'm thinking of doing is run one loop of 1/2" pex within the 2 feet of space and put insulation just above it to keep the heat from rising within the wall. My question is would 180 degrees water be too high? I have no way of dropping it and figured with the one loop the higher it is probably the better it would be.
Logged

wreckit87

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 518
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: C375
  • Just a stupid pipefitter...
    • View Profile
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2018, 08:54:22 PM »

I actually did a couple radiant walls for customers this summer with awesome results. Haven't gotten to my own yet but it's coming. Output on a single loop in 2 feet will be pretty low though, and 180 degree pex will turn into wet spaghetti- ask me how I found out. How would you plan on zoning this basement if you have no means of knocking temp down?
Logged
F150 Platinum
Ugly brown '81 Crown Vic 800 RWHP project
Silverado 2500HD work beater
Victory Jackpot
Victory Highball
Can-Am Renegade 1000
Cushman Truckster 3 wheeler (Steve)
Bobcat S175 2 speed
Stihl 291

Slumlord from hell with a hydronics addiction

Foley, MN

sceptre74

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 183
  • OWF Brand: Portage and Main
  • OWF Model: BL 28-40
    • View Profile
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2018, 03:10:45 AM »

The basement is half finished with 2 bedrooms and no plans to finish the rest. There is plenty of heat from my primary secondary loops to heat the rest of it that is wide open to it. My plan is 1 circ for the entire loop.
Logged

wreckit87

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 518
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: C375
  • Just a stupid pipefitter...
    • View Profile
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2018, 05:52:48 PM »

So you'd just run it 24/7 with your boiler circ? I'm confused
Logged
F150 Platinum
Ugly brown '81 Crown Vic 800 RWHP project
Silverado 2500HD work beater
Victory Jackpot
Victory Highball
Can-Am Renegade 1000
Cushman Truckster 3 wheeler (Steve)
Bobcat S175 2 speed
Stihl 291

Slumlord from hell with a hydronics addiction

Foley, MN

sceptre74

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 183
  • OWF Brand: Portage and Main
  • OWF Model: BL 28-40
    • View Profile
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2018, 06:18:46 PM »

No, it would be a secondary loop off of the primary one. I have a heat exchanger separating the owb from the house install. I also have a taco sr504 exp controlling each loop. When I built my system I added some extra tees in case I wanted to add more Heating devices.
Logged

wreckit87

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 518
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: C375
  • Just a stupid pipefitter...
    • View Profile
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2018, 06:58:39 AM »

Gotcha! I really don't think you would like running 180 through there. The linear expansion and noise is enough to drive a guy batty. Pex-Al-Pex will help considerably with that, but it'll still be noticeable if you're trying to keep them straight and/or sandwiched. How long are these walls? The BTU output is pretty minimal and takes a whole lot of tubing. I took a course with Uponor this summer and was trained in their Quik-Trak system, and must say I was very surprised with how little the output really is. And sheetrock cannot withstand anything over 130* water without warping and cracking, so that limits a lot of output also. As for knocking your temp down, if you'd be adding a pump for this loop anyway, why not just pipe a mixing valve in between the primary and circulator? Then you have whatever temp water you need
Logged
F150 Platinum
Ugly brown '81 Crown Vic 800 RWHP project
Silverado 2500HD work beater
Victory Jackpot
Victory Highball
Can-Am Renegade 1000
Cushman Truckster 3 wheeler (Steve)
Bobcat S175 2 speed
Stihl 291

Slumlord from hell with a hydronics addiction

Foley, MN

sceptre74

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 183
  • OWF Brand: Portage and Main
  • OWF Model: BL 28-40
    • View Profile
Re: Radiant walls
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2018, 06:17:20 PM »

I guess  I could add a mixing valve but it looks like going this route was just wishful thinking. Lol. Guess I'll be installing baseboard heaters instead. What size do you think I'd need for a 175 sqft room?
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3