Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Username: Password:
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Adding heat to the garage  (Read 792 times)

wreckit87

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 598
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: C375
  • Just a stupid pipefitter...
    • View Profile
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2019, 03:59:14 PM »

Yes, essentially the 3 way valve would cut off flow to the coil between heat calls but you'd still have full flow through the flat plate and manifolds as the pump on the boiler runs 24/7
Logged
F150 Platinum
Ugly brown '81 Crown Vic 800 RWHP project
Silverado 2500HD work beater
Victory Jackpot
Victory Highball
Can-Am Renegade 1000
Cushman Truckster 3 wheeler (Steve)
Bobcat S175 2 speed
Stihl 291

Slumlord from hell with a hydronics addiction

Foley, MN

juddspaintballs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 594
    • View Profile
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2019, 07:58:43 PM »

Where the Logstor comes through the foundation is where I'm going to put the manifolds.  It's an unfinished area of the basement with cinder block walls I can bolt the manifolds to pretty easily.  Right now I have a 90 degree elbow on the supply and return ends of the Logstor at the basement wall and a 1" ball valve after that.  From there, I could hook up a supply and return manifold and connect them with a flat plate exchanger in between because that would eliminate needing to get true 1" ID PEX and running the 1/2" domestic hot water PEX into that room would be much easier to do.  Then, from the manifolds I can have a loop for the coil in the ductwork, a loop for the garage heat, and a loop for the sun porch I'm turning into an interior room of the house.  I assume each of those three loops would get their own (smaller) circulator like a 007 or whatever winds up being appropriate.  I could simply turn off (and manual valve off) the loop in the coil if it's a warm day and I want to run air conditioning?  Or are you saying the 26-99 could circulate all of the loops and to just use ball valves to control them on/off as needed?  I actually did it that way at the old house except I did have a 2-way zone valve on the coil in that house and a relief valve between the manifolds that would dump excess pressure when the coil was "off".
Logged

E Yoder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1122
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: GS 100
    • View Profile
    • www.heatmasterfurnace.com
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2019, 04:53:25 AM »

The closer you can get the flat plate to the water heater the hotter your domestic water will be. But it'll probably work where you're describing.
In this drawing I'm including the flat plate in the primary loop. You could use a Delta p pump for the secondary with zone valves. It senses them opening and starts circulation.
Logged
HeatMaster dealer serving southwest VA.
www.heatmasterfurnace.com

juddspaintballs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 594
    • View Profile
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2019, 06:42:26 AM »

That makes more sense now.  On the other hand, if I put the manifolds in the room with the water heater and furnace, it does get the water heater the hottest water and it reduces the amount of piping I need to run to the coil, the water heater, and sun porch.  All I'd need is some true 1" ID pipe from the Logstor to the furnace room. 
Logged

wreckit87

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 598
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: C375
  • Just a stupid pipefitter...
    • View Profile
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2019, 06:00:08 PM »

1/2" pex for domestic cold main? Just 1 bathroom? You don't NEED 1" ID pex for the loop to the heat exchangers; your short run in 1" nominal would hardly be noticeable to the 26-99. I'm not sure why you're so adamant to use those manifolds, but depending on spacing of the ports you may or may not have heat creep no matter what due to ghost flow. Seeing as you'll need to pull through a mixer for the future loop, if it were me, I'd still pipe the loop with 1" pex from where the Logstor enters the house, to the plate HX (as close to the WH as possible), with a 3 way Sentry to bypass the coil between heat calls, and 1" back to the Logstor return. Use a small circ to move the garage loop with a pair of closely spaced tees between the house coil and the Logstor, and another circ to pull through the mixing valve for the future loop with another pair of closely spaced tees after the garage loop. You need to have either hydraulic separation or flow checks to avoid ghost flow. If the manifold has 4 ports less than 6" apart, you could easily make this work with just one manifold or even both in series with the extras valved off. If they are more than 6" apart, you will need flow checks. Pick your poison, but I'd opt for hydraulic separation personally- flow checks suck
Logged
F150 Platinum
Ugly brown '81 Crown Vic 800 RWHP project
Silverado 2500HD work beater
Victory Jackpot
Victory Highball
Can-Am Renegade 1000
Cushman Truckster 3 wheeler (Steve)
Bobcat S175 2 speed
Stihl 291

Slumlord from hell with a hydronics addiction

Foley, MN

E Yoder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1122
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: GS 100
    • View Profile
    • www.heatmasterfurnace.com
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2019, 05:02:19 AM »

I use spring check valves quite often on secondary loops to stop ghost flow.  Work great altho I've a couple get trash in them and leak through. They're cheap tho.
I agree a bit of 1" regular pex won't affect things all that much on the main loop. You could use 1 1/4" if you were at all concerned, it's getting readily available now online  But I'd do 1" myself. I rarely use 1" on secondary loops if it's just to one or two air handlers on short loops, 3/4 carries enough flow.
Logged
HeatMaster dealer serving southwest VA.
www.heatmasterfurnace.com

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4010
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2019, 11:35:30 AM »

I use spring check valves quite often on secondary loops to stop ghost flow.  Work great altho I've a couple get trash in them and leak through. They're cheap tho.
I agree a bit of 1" regular pex won't affect things all that much on the main loop. You could use 1 1/4" if you were at all concerned, it's getting readily available now online  But I'd do 1" myself. I rarely use 1" on secondary loops if it's just to one or two air handlers on short loops, 3/4 carries enough flow.

Thought ghost flow was all but eliminated if you kept the Tís close to one another for the secondary?

Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana

E Yoder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1122
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: GS 100
    • View Profile
    • www.heatmasterfurnace.com
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2019, 02:07:38 AM »

My experience has been that adding a ball valve between the tees to allow quick purging then starts a tiny amount of ghost flow. Which is unacceptable during AC.
Logged
HeatMaster dealer serving southwest VA.
www.heatmasterfurnace.com

wreckit87

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 598
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: C375
  • Just a stupid pipefitter...
    • View Profile
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2019, 07:59:09 AM »

Why would you add a ball valve between the tees? As you say, that pressure drop from the valve creates ghost flow. If piped correctly, there will never be a need for that ball valve
Logged
F150 Platinum
Ugly brown '81 Crown Vic 800 RWHP project
Silverado 2500HD work beater
Victory Jackpot
Victory Highball
Can-Am Renegade 1000
Cushman Truckster 3 wheeler (Steve)
Bobcat S175 2 speed
Stihl 291

Slumlord from hell with a hydronics addiction

Foley, MN

RSI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3008
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: G200
    • View Profile
    • RSI
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2019, 08:19:17 AM »

My experience has been that adding a ball valve between the tees to allow quick purging then starts a tiny amount of ghost flow. Which is unacceptable during AC.
Just use one of these instead. http://www.webstonevalves.com/default.aspx?page=customer&file=customer/wecoin/customerpages/purgetee.htm
Logged

E Yoder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1122
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: GS 100
    • View Profile
    • www.heatmasterfurnace.com
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2019, 03:08:03 AM »

My experience has been that adding a ball valve between the tees to allow quick purging then starts a tiny amount of ghost flow. Which is unacceptable during AC.
Just use one of these instead. http://www.webstonevalves.com/default.aspx?page=customer&file=customer/wecoin/customerpages/purgetee.htm
Is it dead reliable, no ghost flow, period? I've looked at those but never used them. Skipping the spring check would be nice but a trip back isn't cheap either.

Why would you add a ball valve between the tees? As you say, that pressure drop from the valve creates ghost flow. If piped correctly, there will never be a need for that ball valve
Some of these secondary loops (especially attic runs) can be tough to purge. Saves a lot of time. Maybe I'm not following you. I'm always ready to learn about a better way.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 03:12:33 AM by E Yoder »
Logged
HeatMaster dealer serving southwest VA.
www.heatmasterfurnace.com

wreckit87

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 598
  • OWF Brand: Heatmaster
  • OWF Model: C375
  • Just a stupid pipefitter...
    • View Profile
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2019, 08:08:47 AM »

Those purge tees work fine from a hydraulic separation standpoint, but I guess I have never run into a scenario that has been tough to purge without the valve between. I just burn a pair of tees in 4" apart and call it a day, but then again I use drain valves on each zone for isolation and purging both. Horse apiece I suppose
Logged
F150 Platinum
Ugly brown '81 Crown Vic 800 RWHP project
Silverado 2500HD work beater
Victory Jackpot
Victory Highball
Can-Am Renegade 1000
Cushman Truckster 3 wheeler (Steve)
Bobcat S175 2 speed
Stihl 291

Slumlord from hell with a hydronics addiction

Foley, MN

E Yoder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1122
  • OWF Brand: HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: GS 100
    • View Profile
    • www.heatmasterfurnace.com
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2019, 03:47:02 AM »

I see they make them in propress, now some pex options would be nice (without soldering).
Logged
HeatMaster dealer serving southwest VA.
www.heatmasterfurnace.com

juddspaintballs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 594
    • View Profile
Re: Adding heat to the garage
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2019, 08:07:33 PM »

Well, slight change of plans.  We're looking at moving now so I'm not going to change anything. 
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]