Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: userdk on May 05, 2017, 02:03:39 PM
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Had a great time at the Wisconsin dealer meeting yesterday. Looking forward to releasing details publicly about the HeatMaster GS-Series. I can clear up that they are still using .409 Stainless Steel, still have the same efficiency and core design as the G-Series and are a good deal less expensive. Official roll out is not until June 1.
Some folks on here requested that HeatMaster add a sight glass to the bottom secondary burn chamber door. And they have answered. They have a fancy new sight glass (see picture and video below) now available on all of the 2017 G-Series.
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Yea I like the sight glass it will really help the customer to see if his wood is dry enough and the furnace is gassifiing. I received a G-100. With the glass. Looks like a quality piece.
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I also like the minor cosmetic/exterior changes they've made to the units.
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Thumbs up on the site glass! That was one of my suggestions on my survey, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people put that down.
WTf is with the flue pipe though??? Looks like a cheap single wall pipe???
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The exhaust port on the boiler is now standard stove pipe size so you can use any kind of pipe with their adapter.
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Here are a couple more pictures. They've also added a tray below the door to help keep the front of the boiler clean.
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Personally I kinda liked the two tone front.
My G400 was a slobbering beast and could have used the tray, the G200 I’m running now is as clean as a whistle yet.
I’m interested about the site glass, I did one on my original G400 and decided one was enough as with at least mine, I felt it added to the condensation/creosote issue as it could always pull a little cold air from the air wash in just like a leaky door seal.
Is the site glass common for both the G and Gs series or just the G?
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Just the G but the door is the same so you could probably swap a door if you really wanted to.
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My first season I had no issues with the door leaking. This year though it started and I couldn't get it to stop with adjustment. I am going to replace the gasket this summer and see if that fixes it.
I don't know if mine has any condensation or creosote issues any different than one without the glass seeing as mine has always had it and I always leave a sliver of wood inbetween the glass and door to keep the glass clean.
I wonder if they would let me order just the glass parts. I already have the hole cut in the door and I could cut the L channel off that the current glass slides into.
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Well well well, I wonder who's idea the sightglass was! Just for the record here folks, I told them that a cheaper G series was a bad idea 2 years ago, I preferred fixing the small issues on the older model first and making it better,I see issues right out of the gate from the pics on this one and will at this point take the wait and see attitude!
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Oh, I have been wanting to ask, how did the emission and efficiency numbers come out?
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I thought that the gs series was still using the same bones but options that are easier to manufacture. Why would they have to run new tests?
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Same bones, no new tests. Same efficiency and emissions numbers. My understanding is that the GS does have a new UL label for outdoor use only due to no smoke bypass.
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Well well well, I wonder who's idea the sightglass was! Just for the record here folks, I told them that a cheaper G series was a bad idea 2 years ago, I preferred fixing the small issues on the older model first and making it better,I see issues right out of the gate from the pics on this one and will at this point take the wait and see attitude!
Slim they're going to be offering both the G-Series and the GS-Series. The GS series is just the G-Series minus the bells and whistles for those customers looking for a great boiler, but who simply can't afford the price tag on the other. Same great design. Same great efficiency. No smoke bypass. Tin instead of flat steel on the outside.
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I'll be burning a GS unit this summer and will post how it goes. It is definitely not a "cheapened" unit, just focused on outdoor installations.
And it allows them to add extras to the G line.
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Hmm. What kind of extras?
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Sight glass. Perhaps remote monitoring in the future. The sky's the limit in a way.
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So it's using a blower or a draft inducer?
Is it using a solenoid for draft control or still the damper plate?
I only ask because the one I saw in the lab certainly had those changes in the works!
If either of those have changed then I would think it would need to be retested.
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Well well well, I wonder who's idea the sightglass was! Just for the record here folks, I told them that a cheaper G series was a bad idea 2 years ago, I preferred fixing the small issues on the older model first and making it better,I see issues right out of the gate from the pics on this one and will at this point take the wait and see attitude!
I for one and at least in our area feel that having a more affordable model isn’t such a horrible ideal.
Years ago about the time our last fearless leader took office our area was hit very hard by the “economic downturn”. Just to the east of us is a very large Amish population, with that able workforce we were known as the RV capital of the country. Motor coaches, popups, fifth wheels, bumper pulls, utility trailers, snowmobile trailers, just about any kind of recreation trailer you could imagine was built in that area, next town over same thing. Once things slowed down a lot of those factories shut down, to this day you still drive by empty buildings.
When things were booming people were getting all the overtime they wanted, so they bought toys, and a lot had a horse or two even for the kids, over 60% of my hay production went to feed horses, I was even delivering at a premium to a guy who was raising and selling miniature horse, he must of had 40-50 miniature mares at one time for breeding purposes, last time I went buy he may of had 15 on the whole place. These days I’m making half as much hay as I did pre 2008 as there just isn’t a market for much more.
A lot of small cabinet shops were around the area supplying cabinets for all those RV’s went under as well, as did a lot of small welding shops that may have been building the frames or even the LP tank holders.
If it wasn’t for Notre Dame constantly expanding or upgrading a lot more union jobs would have been lost as well. Even AM General is slower than they used to be with a lot of guys taking early retirement when it was offered.
Things have picked up some since then, but like I pointed out before a lot of empty buildings still in those towns. Then of course the county governments in all their wisdom instead of cutting spending when revenues fell instead raised taxes on those still working. County and property taxes never did go back down (of course) and a lot of temporary taxes were put in place that are still “temporary” according to the county governments but have become permanent.
Doesn’t matter how well something is made if people just can’t afford it, a lot of those small welding shops are now sending boilers out the back door claiming since it’s “homemade” it’s exempt. Indiana passed their own laws on OWB’s, even if federal is revoked I can guarantee Indiana will keep their’s, maybe once the IDEM (Indiana Department of Environmental Management) pays em a visit and the first guy needs to visit a proctologist afterwards then the boot leg boilers will stop when the message gets across homemade only applies to your own use.
Most potential sales end rather quickly when people ask the price and that doesn’t include installation, underground line, labor, etc. Being able to arrange financing hasn’t helped either as a lot of people took advantage of easy credit when the money was just rolling out of the RV factories, then a lot of em got caught with their pants down when they got laid off.
If a more affordable boiler will actually get people to purchase a legal unit then so be it, I think there could be a rather large market for em in my area. If it’s affordable enough then the ROI is better. I built my first one as for just heating the house a commercial unit didn’t pencil out at all, would have been like paying my monthly heating bill year round for five years, however once the shop and sidewalk was added things changed. I have natural gas here at the farm, still make more sense to heat with wood, we have our own 250 acres to keep the fencerows cleaned up and over a 1000 acres of rented ground to keep up with, if we weren’t burning it, then we’d be shoving it in piles to rot. If the initial investment goes down maybe more people will become more self sufficient.
Of course, actually having winter here again would help tremendously, set several new highs this past one. People have already forgotten when several years ago that winter when we had polar vortex after polar vortex that LP hit $5/gallon and you could only buy a hundred gallons at a time as the supply was that short.
People and their short memories is why tax day and election day are roughly half a year apart, the people running the government might be idiots, but they make up for it in guile.
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Slim, we have one on our lot. Same great design. Same great efficiency. No smoke bypass.
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I think the concept is the same as in the auto industry. For a work truck I don't care for power windows, power seats, heated seats,etc. Give me less moving parts, but keep dependability. Give me my cummins, 5spd,4wd and like the old 12 valve, no computer, no def fluid truck. Cheaper in cost not cheaper in dependability. But those that want the comfort and convenience at a little more cost ,that's fine. Most people we sell stoves to are working,country folks that want to save money.It seems great to be tied to a company that wants their gasser to compete with conventionals even if there is no epa mandate. This is one step closer and I know it won't be the last. I understand it's already having an effect. We have a waiting list for GS and are told that Heatmaster has a waiting list and current production run is sold out and it's summer. Can we get units this fall is the Question.
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That's awesome, can somebody answer my questions PLEASE!
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I like my g-200 the way it is , and yes it was a huge nut to swallow when I bought it. I like the bypass and everything else. I could care less about the window , I was offered to have one fabed for me not worth it. If it was cheaper to purchase I could probably get some people to buy one , but cheaper means you loose the features that makes the one I have better than what my friends have. Like the CB's with the charred fronts. But with that said if more people can burn wood and be happy then I'm all for it , It has changed our life both comfort wise and economicly and I'm glad they are offering choices to have the base model and the cadillac. Keep up the quality and that's what matters.Stay in the business where others have failed and make a decent product that will last the test of time. I keep fixing my old trucks because the new ones are not made to last , and my old tractors same thing.
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That's awesome, can somebody answer my questions PLEASE!
If you are talking about the damper and blower question, the G and GS boilers have the same parts.
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A decade ago when my Dad first got into the boiler business, fuel prices had reached an all time high. Folks weren't buying outdoor boilers for a toy. Quite the contrary. People whose budgets just weren't reaching around were buying then out of necessity. We were paying well over $800/ month for heat. We bought the business from an acquaintance that was moving to Kentucky. During the 2007-2009 era we sold more units per year than ever since and a large portion of our customers didn't have the resources, credit, or cash flow to buy something expensive. HeatMaster at the time was offering an ECO3000 capable of heating up to 3,000 square feet and which sold at a suggested retail of $3995 not on sale. During that time, this unit was a best seller. No it wasn't fancy, but those boilers were built to last and are still cranking out heat today. As dealers, our primary objective should be doing what's right for our customers, which does not always entail the most expensive boiler in inventory. The notion that creating a more affordable alternative is going to sacrifice quality or longevity is nothing but a baseless assumption. The notion that adding a GS-Series to the lineup will somehow lessen the quality of the G-Series is even more absurd.
We're looking forward to offering a fuller lineup to better accomodate our customers' needs. The GS-Series will allow us to reach more of the market, while still offering the same great design and efficiency.
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I also like the minor cosmetic/exterior changes they've made to the units.
Tough to get it into the pictures but I think the new paint they're using is a bit glossier. Part of why they look so sharp.
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Yes RSI that was the question, Thank You for answering it!
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Nothing wrong with coming out with a more affordable model with a few less features. With propane and fuel oil as cheap as they are now, I think its a good idea for both Heatmaster, and the industry in general. Its hard to justify spending $10000-$13000 on an OWB system. Unless you live in Minnesota and heat a 3000 sq ft leaky farmhouse, the payback time stretches out many years down the road. More affordable options are going to be a good thing for the industry.
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Cb did the same thing with the edge line but approached it different with a different design. I think heatmaster is doing it the right way with the same model, tried and tested in the field without having to retest epa tests.
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When are the prices going to be released? How did they sell out with no price release?
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Dealers should have pricing, we do.
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Not public knowledge yet?
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User, since you posted the first pic of the new unit and seem to know so much about it I will direct my question / comment to you. I'm confused, the pic shows a second handle that looks exactly like the original smoke bypass, it also shows flat siding, did I miss something or is this more of the smoke and mirrors that I as a dealer have been dealing with since last fall?
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Only pictures I’ve seen in this thread were all G units, therefore two handles and flat sides, if their is a picture of a GS then I must of missed it.
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Please look closely Marty, the pic on users post shows the non insulated smoke pipe and reaction chamber window as well as the thread being about the cheapened down unit, again I really don't care but it sure looks like smoke and mirrors to me.
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Slim, which pic are you referring to? Someone said in this thread that the gs series would not have an inspection window so that was the pic of a g series with that. I'm not sure which pic was supposed to be a gs ???
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I don't see a GS and I think user did explain the chimney situation in referring to a G series.
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I thought the thread was about the cheapened version but the pic appears to be of the older G 400 with a window in the reaction chamber.
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The thread I felt was that there was a new model GS series and the G series was receiving some upgrades as well and the pics and discussion have been about those changes and what the GS series will have.
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I didn't see any pics of GS posted, only 2017 G series.
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The decals on the unit in the picture say G400, and it is a 2017 model. I thought the subject was about the dealer meeting.
I have a GS100, I'll post pictures when I can. I'm not home right now and I may have to wait til the release date.
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Can't share pics of the GS-Series until June 1st.
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Ooooooh, I'm so exited! So when is the debut of that chip burner Eldon?
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Not sure. Haven't checked. It's been a busy spring.
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Busy? Selling stoves with oil at $46 per barrel?
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Must be the thing to do on here when oil is below $50/barrel and dealers are slow its open season on each other. Does not look very professional for anyone that visits this site or is seaking info.
Some on this site consider me a fly by night dealer and it is true. I have full time Job as a diesel tech yes. So if that qualifies me as that so be it. I don't care. you have your opinion keep it to yourself.
We do 9-10 shows a summer. Talk to hundreds of people. Some just need help with a heat issue or are interested how the gasification takes place. I explain it to everyone. Some think the OWF is outlawed.
Well when I researched OWF. I did not look at all of them but I looked at a lot of them. It took me about 18 months to finally find the Heatmaster product line. So I bought a G-200. Bob Hunt told me Heatmaster is looking for dealers. After using it four months I was impressed enough I started inquire into becoming a dealer. Why? It was a form of heat I believe in ,self-sufficient, individualism , freedom from oil.
With seven other dealers with different brands in my emediate area of NY I knew it wasn't going to be easy. If I could sell five a year I would be happy. But First year out ,selling Nine furnaces. With that I want to thank my customers who went out on a limb and trusted in me and the product. These reasons make me brand loyal to Heatmaster
Every dollar of it reinvested into product. Not counting the G-400 I took to MAine. As of 1/1/2017 we sold four stoves done and set up. Thus Setting the stage with 4 G-100 7 G-200 1 G-400 stock all paid for. Two of the 100 have deposits. Two of the 200s have deposits.
A customer I sold a 200 to last year called Me and said I need another furnace. I said what happened to yours. He said oh no. I need one for my son. His empire stove is leaking. He also said his daughter has the same stove. So that will be another one gone shortly, possibly two down the road.
So not too shabby for this fly by night.
Every manufacture out there has there problems. When a worker goes on vacation for a week and someone fills in they may miss something the other guy did. Simple as that.
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:post:
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Now who would consider YOU as fly by night Ben? Certainly not the guy who stood by you and fronted you stoves against the wishes of the Friesen family, oh that's me isn't it?
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Vacation for a week, is that how they are explaining what happened to me, WOW and you believe it huh, kind of like they say that EVERY boiler is pressure tested before it's loaded, somebody PLEASE explain to me the leak that we had to fix on NEILS boiler then.
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Vacation for a week, is that how they are explaining what happened to me, WOW and you believe it huh, kind of like they say that EVERY boiler is pressure tested before it's loaded, somebody PLEASE explain to me the leak that we had to fix on NEILS boiler then.
He never said you did. When a worker goes on vacation as in at the factory.
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I am not a dealer but I am going to chime in. Slimjim when you sold me my boiler you had nothing but praise for Heatmaster and their products and how good they treated their customers when things went south. I have been on the forum for sometime you always helped people. Even if they had another boiler type and that was part of the reason I went with the brand your were touting. There are other dealers closer but you treated me good when I bought my pipe a few years ago. You also treated almost everyone with a civil and helpful attitude. So I realize you are having some issues right now God knows life is full of them. So when I keep reading your posts and they are very negative towards Heatmaster it seems so out of place for you and makes me wonder if I made the right decision. From the performance of the boiler after the fix I believe it was the right one, but as it was said in an earlier comment it looks bad for someone wanting to buy a new boiler. I am sorry you and the Heatmaster people could not work out a peaceful resolution. But maybe turning people away from this brand of boiler might be hurting some people that are still dealers of Heatmaster. And as you and I discussed word of mouth in this industry is a big part of it. While you may not think it is any big deal to bad mouth them. I think you fail to realize how many people here value your input on this forum and pay attention to your comments. If anyone thinks this post is inappropriate then I will or you can delete it.
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Ok, damage is done, you know it's interesting how after the years of being on here how quickly folks forget that I say how I honestly feel, perhaps if the shoe were on the other foot then it might be a different song sung, for those of you that are HeatMaster dealers, you can't say I didn't warn you, for those who dont want to hear how they have treated me since January 1 then you have got your wish, somebody Please show me a single instance of me lying to any of you as HeatMaster has done to me!! The point is they cost us all in the long run
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Ok, damage is done, you know it's interesting how after the years of being on here how quickly folks forget that I say how I honestly feel, perhaps if the shoe were on the other foot then it might be a different song sung, for those of you that are HeatMaster dealers, you can't say I didn't warn you, for those who dont want to hear how they have treated me since January 1 then you have got your wish, somebody Please show me a single instance of me lying to any of you as HeatMaster has done to me!! The point is they cost us all in the long run
It’s not that I think your lying, I just try not to form an opinion till I’ve heard both sides of the story. But, whatever did happen seems totally out of character from the people I’ve meet from corporate at the dealer meetings.
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Well Marty, you met them as salespeople, you spent some time with them as sales people, perhaps a week with them even? How many years have we been on here promoting outdoor wood boilers? Sometimes on the same corporate team and sometimes not! How many times have you ever heard me speak badly of any manufacturer until now? Does that not peak your interest? does it not make the hair stand up on the back of your neck? It's tough times in the heating business right now, every manufacturer has had to cut back but some of the stuff these folks have put me through since the first of the year have simply been uncalled for, did I mention that my wife just last week had a stress related heart attack due to this crap? I will be very happy the day that I sell off my last HeatMaster G 200 and can get back to a normal lifestyle without the worry that another kick in the teeth is coming from the very folks that I invested in so heavily. Again for those who wish to invest in these people, do so at your own risk, I have warned you!
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Does that not peak your interest?
Of course it does.
does it not make the hair stand up on the back of your neck?
No not really, not until I’ve heard both sides.
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Does that not peak your interest?
Of course it does.
does it not make the hair stand up on the back of your neck?
No not really, not until I’ve heard both sides.
I’ve worked as security in my younger days when the local tavern had bands, I’ve learned what one side says tells the tavern owner in the morning, then what the other side tells the tavern owner in the morning rarely is what really happened.
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We are not talking about a bunch of drunks at a tavern, we should be talking about how investors are treated when the going gets tough, first comes the dealers being singled out then the customers, I would ask you to go back to Neal's first thread regarding his brand new boiler and see how he felt about it!
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We are not talking about a bunch of drunks at a tavern, we should be talking about how investors are treated when the going gets tough, first comes the dealers being singled out then the customers, I would ask you to go back to Neal's first thread regarding his brand new boiler and see how he felt about it!
I paid close attention to that thread just like all the others.
Sorry to hear about your wife, I hope she’s well asap. My wife has been a cardiac patient since birth, three open heart surgeries with hopefully the last in 2010, if another valve needs changed hopefully they can do that without opening her up again. She should know better, but she in a right proper tizzy as her favorite cousin is flying in on the 3rd of June for a visit, they way she’s been acting you’d think he’s bringing the queen mum with him. She takes her blood pressure three times a day and logs it, I can go back in her log and pick the days out that she’s gotten in a tizzy over something else she wants done before Kevin arrives. It’s not good for us guys when the better halves are under the weather for any reason.