Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: morfem on June 14, 2017, 02:17:20 PM
-
Dang there are so many options!!!!!!
At least when you purchase a vehicle you can take it for a test drive..... :-\
Hello all. I found this forum while doing some internet searches and there is allot of great info here.
I am in the process of purchasing a my first outdoor wood boiler and have so many questions.
I would like to do as much of the work as I can for 2 reasons:
1- To save Money
2- So I know how it is setup in case there are any problems in the future.
I have somewhat narrowed my search down to these 4 brands but not necessarily a particular stove. I would like to stick with the gasification models.
Central Boiler
Portage and Main
HeatMaster
Hearmor
If there are dealers for the above models what size unit would you recommend? I would like to get some opinions.
Heat master specific: Is the new GS model any good?
I talk to some people and they say that stainless is the worst thing for a boiler and others say the exact opposite.
Same goes with underground insulated pex. I believe I want to go with the closed cell type and not the "bubble wrap" style but again so many options.
Logstor Dual flex pex
Rehau
Thermo-pex
Rhino-flex by Rovanco
I attached a sketch of what I am going to heat.
2 story house with radiant tubes in basement and water to air heat exchangers already installed in the air handlers.
Attached garage with radiant tubes already installed.
Pole barn with Radiant tubes already installed.
Would also like to heat the water heater in the house and pole barn.
Located in Southern Indiana so we do not get super cold winters.
I would like to place the wood boiler behind the barn so it is unseen.
Is there any good documentation to calculate what size pumps and Diameter of pipe needed?
I have a million more questions but this is a good start.
Thanks for you time and I appreciate your input.
-
Far as materials, Central Boiler bashed stainless for years, now that gasification models are required for the majority of sales, all of a sudden it isn’t so bad and Central will sell you a 409 stainless model for an additional cost. I’ve seen 409 stainless Heatmor’s that the skins were practically rusted clear off em, but the boiler itself was still sound as well as the water jacket.
The GS is basically the exact same stove as a G, the outer appearance is different and you loose a couple of convenience features like smokeless loading and the EZ Clean handle on the outside of the stove.
Far as sizing pumps and underground line, this is very useful.
http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/SelectingCirculators.pdf
-
Rehau and Thermopex is the same pipe right?
I'm running a GS and it's working great. Just a simpler G series. It smokes more out the door when loading and I have to open the rear door to shake the turbulators. Neither are a big deal to me. And it doesn't have the new pretty sight glass like a G. Just a nice simple clean burning stainless gasser.
I think the Heatmor is a catalytic unit. All the others you mentioned are downdraft units.
-
What type of air handlers are they? Heat pump, gas? What Ton/cfm?
-
I have heat pumps with electric backup currently. I will get you the ton/CFM when I get home this evening.
This may be a stupid question but what is the difference between gasser, down draft, and catalytic units?
Thanks
-
As far as boilers go I would take heatmor off the list for gassers. They don't have one to my knowledge. I would look into how much Centrals stainless option is for there models, I have never seen pricing. I would add polar to your list of boilers to look at. I have talked to one guy that owns two at a farm and he really likes them. I have seen them in person and they are well made. I have talked to one owner that has the egr250 from pm, he also really likes it. I have a heatmaster g200 and love it. I could only really ask for one more thing which would be wifi monitoring capabilities.
What heating zone are you in? I think you would need to look hard at if a 25 cubic foot firebox or a 15 cubic foot firebox would work for you. Depending on your insulation and air sealing you are really in between the two I think.
-
Personally, and I’ll ad that I sell HeatmasterSS but I think I’d stay away from CB no matter the material, its not hard to find somebody complaining about CB not wanting to honor warranties.
Last price list I seen the stainless option puts a comparable size Edge at the same price as a G series, but is still only a ten year warranty from CB.
-
As far as boilers go I would take heatmor off the list for gassers. They don't have one to my knowledge. I would look into how much Centrals stainless option is for there models, I have never seen pricing. I would add polar to your list of boilers to look at. I have talked to one guy that owns two at a farm and he really likes them. I have seen them in person and they are well made. I have talked to one owner that has the egr250 from pm, he also really likes it. I have a heatmaster g200 and love it. I could only really ask for one more thing which would be wifi monitoring capabilities.
What heating zone are you in? I think you would need to look hard at if a 25 cubic foot firebox or a 15 cubic foot firebox would work for you. Depending on your insulation and air sealing you are really in between the two I think.
Heatmor has an updraft catalytic model that just barely passed EPA but I have never seen one in the field. It seems they haven't pushed it hard? From reading the manual a different sort of animal than a regular gasser but it did pass.
A gasser and downdrafting are basically the same thing. The wood gas is forced down through a nozzle in the floor of the firebox and burned off in a very hot separate chamber.
A catalytic unit uses a catalyst in the exhaust path to force the smoke to burn. I haven't seen a catalytic unit running. Heatmaster had looked into it but thought a downdraft design would be simpler and more forgiving. But like I said I have not seen or talked to someone actually running one.
Hardy has their downdraft KB series, haven't heard reviews.
Around here it's pretty much CB and Heatmaster.
-
As far as boilers go I would take heatmor off the list for gassers. They don't have one to my knowledge. I would look into how much Centrals stainless option is for there models, I have never seen pricing. I would add polar to your list of boilers to look at. I have talked to one guy that owns two at a farm and he really likes them. I have seen them in person and they are well made. I have talked to one owner that has the egr250 from pm, he also really likes it. I have a heatmaster g200 and love it. I could only really ask for one more thing which would be wifi monitoring capabilities.
What heating zone are you in? I think you would need to look hard at if a 25 cubic foot firebox or a 15 cubic foot firebox would work for you. Depending on your insulation and air sealing you are really in between the two I think.
Heatmor has an updraft catalytic model that just barely passed EPA but I have never seen one in the field. It seems they haven't pushed it hard? From reading the manual a different sort of animal than a regular gasser but it did pass.
Yah, we have a Heatmor dealer in the next county, he’s yet to have the new gasser at the festival, had 500,000 people thru it last year, you’d think he’d want it out there, instead had a tried and true 200 and 400 there.
-
The second floor unit is a 2 ton unit and the main floor is 3.5.
The house was built in 2007 and has blown in cellulose in the wall and ceilings.
Thanks
-
Looking at your square footage if you want to keep the pole barn really warm you might need a G400, if the garage and pole barn are kept cooler a G200 might do it.
A lot of guys around here in VA do blowers in outbuildings and bump the temp back to save wood, then bump it up when working in them. Radiant will need to be kept a steady temp.
Still curious what tonnage the heat pumps are. The model # should have a # divisible by 12.
-
I apologize for my replys being slow but it seems that I'm on a 10 message probationary period.
Moderator has to review my messages first.
-
I apologize for my replys being slow but it seems that I'm on a 10 message probationary period.
Moderator has to review my messages first.
Yep, is an anti spam measure, works very well since being implemented. I use to spend up to 20 minutes a day deleting spam and the forum was quickly becoming unusable because of it.
Since it’s obvious you don’t have nefarious intentions I’ll bump your post count to 10.
-
I would place a vote in for Heatmaster,no experience with their gasser models. If you see my profile you will see that I am on my third furnace,if you would like you could pm me on my reasoning and choices,just know that I have helped sway some decisions for neighbours and they have been happy with their choice
-
I don't have much to add because I don't own a gasser but I can say that my father in law owns a CB that is 7 years old and almost rusted through. Not sure why because we have taken good are of it. Trying to get a warranty claim from CB is ridiculous. They tel you to go fly a kite most of the time. One guy I personally spoke with said to me some wood can be more acidic than others depending where it grows and that will cause the fire drums to not last as long and that is not their fault (warranty is defect in MATERIAL and craftsmanship). I believe the material is bad. We gave up on that and we are fixing it ourselves. If it doesn't go 10 years it didn't even pay for itself.
Food for thought.
-
Good call on the Polar Hondaracer. I overlooked that one.
I read an older post on this but I will raise the question again to see if anything changed.
The Polar and P&M gasification units look very similar.
Without to much bashing of the competition what advantage does one have over the other?
-
Looking at your square footage if you want to keep the pole barn really warm you might need a G400, if the garage and pole barn are kept cooler a G200 might do it.
A lot of guys around here in VA do blowers in outbuildings and bump the temp back to save wood, then bump it up when working in them. Radiant will need to be kept a steady temp.
Still curious what tonnage the heat pumps are. The model # should have a # divisible by 12.
Oops, you did post the heat pump tonnage. I missed it, sorry.
Sizing of the boiler would depend a lot on how warm you intend to keep the pole barn and what burn times you are expecting. A G or GS 200 would be about perfect for the house and garage. 5.5 tons is not a heavy load on a G200. The pole barn could get burn times pretty short on a G200 though if it is kept at 70+ F.
How often you would be near the unit to throw on a few sticks of wood would factor in too.
I'm comparing Heatmaster models as that is what I am familiar with, hopefully that gives you a reference point as you browse the options.
-
Just a guess since I do not have any heat in the shop now but I think somewhere around 60 would be comfortable to work in.
I have been seeing some info about hanging heaters in the shop so if I would want to get it a little warmer for a short time I could use them.
I work away from home so I wouldn't be able to add more wood until the evening.
Thanks for the info.
-
A local dealer could give better specific info after seeing it but I'm guessing you're into the low end of G400 territory.
Just must my guess.
-
Just a guess since I do not have any heat in the shop now but I think somewhere around 60 would be comfortable to work in.
I have been seeing some info about hanging heaters in the shop so if I would want to get it a little warmer for a short time I could use them.
I work away from home so I wouldn't be able to add more wood until the evening.
Thanks for the info.
I keep ours 60-65, 70 if I’m painting. All depends on your insulation, some guys around here have built new shops and they are probably insulated at least twice as well as their homes.
-
That is how my garage is as well. My garage is insulated about twice if not more than my house is. My house is approaching 70 years and my garage is 4. I keep the garage about 40 in the winter unless I'm in it, then I stock up the wood stove and turn it up to about 62. Unless it is 40mph winds and negative wind chills having the garage at 40 or having the heat off is very little difference in wood consumption. I maybe loose an hour of burn times in 24 hours having the garage at 40.
-
...but I think I’d stay away from CB no matter the material, its not hard to find somebody complaining about CB not wanting to honor warranties.
Look no further than me! >:(
-
I sold mild steel stoves for several years,but after seeing what happens to a mild steel gasser I wouldn't even think about one unless it was 409ss
-
Just a guess since I do not have any heat in the shop now but I think somewhere around 60 would be comfortable to work in.
I have been seeing some info about hanging heaters in the shop so if I would want to get it a little warmer for a short time I could use them.
Mine are actually on the floor, one is under the bolt bin pointing towards the lathe, Bridgeport and drill presses. The other in under the refrigerator that holds all my welding supplies, it points at the welding bench, the last one is in the back corner of the shop, just a old furnace I stripped and placed a HX in, rotated the blower so it blows across the floor instead of out the top, I pull air thru the filters, then the HX and run the hot air thru the blower with no issues, the other two heaters also have filters.
-
I sold mild steel stoves for several years,but after seeing what happens to a mild steel gasser I wouldn't even think about one unless it was 409ss
Funny, I as well sold mild steel stoves for years, in fact I probably sold the first steel gasser in Maine and 13 years later it is still in operation, because of my background and the fact that I as well sold the same brand as you not so long ago I have to say that they are a good stove BUT they as well have their issues and limits so just because you feel that stainless makes the best boiler does not make it so!
-
Just a guess since I do not have any heat in the shop now but I think somewhere around 60 would be comfortable to work in.
I have been seeing some info about hanging heaters in the shop so if I would want to get it a little warmer for a short time I could use them.
Mine are actually on the floor, one is under the bolt bin pointing towards the lathe, Bridgeport and drill presses. The other in under the refrigerator that holds all my welding supplies, it points at the welding bench, the last one is in the back corner of the shop, just a old furnace I stripped and placed a HX in, rotated the blower so it blows across the floor instead of out the top, I pull air thru the filters, then the HX and run the hot air thru the blower with no issues, the other two heaters also have filters.
I've found blowing the air across the floor works quite well too. Much better than a heater way up high. I've never seen the hot air pulling the hot air through the blower hurt anything.
-
Just a guess since I do not have any heat in the shop now but I think somewhere around 60 would be comfortable to work in.
I have been seeing some info about hanging heaters in the shop so if I would want to get it a little warmer for a short time I could use them.
Mine are actually on the floor, one is under the bolt bin pointing towards the lathe, Bridgeport and drill presses. The other in under the refrigerator that holds all my welding supplies, it points at the welding bench, the last one is in the back corner of the shop, just a old furnace I stripped and placed a HX in, rotated the blower so it blows across the floor instead of out the top, I pull air thru the filters, then the HX and run the hot air thru the blower with no issues, the other two heaters also have filters.
I've found blowing the air across the floor works quite well too. Much better than a heater way up high. I've never seen the hot air pulling the hot air through the blower hurt anything.
Other than with the furnace I loose a little floor space. I screwed a piece of 3/4 plywood to the top of it, both battery chargers sit on top as the shelf that holds any spare batteries is right next to the furnace.