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[wardog]

I bought an updraft gasification outdoor wood hydronic boiler several years ago and just got it all installed and using it this winter.  This boiler is not like the outdoor shed types but one of the smaller looking ones that doesn't take up a lot of back yard space.  It is a closed system that uses boiler antifreeze with about a 25 gallon capacity.  I have kept records of all the wood burned as well as it's moisture readings as this thing was advertised and sold to ONLY burn cured dry wood.  I fired it up for the first time mid November and ran it for about six weeks in which it seemed to use a lot of wood and having to load it every 4 to 6 hours when temps got into the teens or lower.   I also noticed what appeared to be antifreeze leaking from the back of the firebox running down the framework after about three weeks of burning it.  Having cleaned out the ash pan numerous times I had never noticed any sign of it being wet inside the fire box but my antifreeze level was dropping.  I shut the unit down and called the manufacturer to report what I had seen in a mere three weeks of use and the amount of wood being used as it was advertised as using HALF the wood of other brands.  I was told that there was no way the unit could leak antifreeze from that spot unless it was leaking inside as well, which I did not see any signs of.  I was told that the inside had to be cleaned about once a week including removing the grate to assure it was all clear of any residues.  I had been emptying the ash pan as it only took two days to fill up but never thought I would have to remove the grate and clean all that as well.  I removed it all cleaned it up, and redid the plumbing and added temperature gauges in both the lines so I could tell the temp exiting the boiler and the temp of the returned antifreeze.  I then started it again on Feb. 1 and have burned it until this morning Feb. 6.  I went out to load it his morning and it had completely burned out over night in approx. 8- 9 hours.  I decided to do the complete cleanup including removal of the grate, by the way this had already warped pretty badly and one of the cross bars had cracked and found that the corner opposite the one on the outside that appeared to be leaking antifreeze had a glob of tar looking stuff.  Upon cleaning that away I saw a leak on the inside of the firebox right along a weld in that same corner.  To this point I have  NOT seen this on the inside and the manufacturer states that most inside leaks are caused by folks burning wood too green.  I'm no wood boiler expert but it seems a pretty good stretch to say that burning too green of wood for less than 2 months would cause such a leak.  I told them that I have kept records of each load of wood I have burned from my barn storage of which I have had stored from 3 to 10 years and not a single load was more than 25% moisture with most being between 14-20% taken with one of those two prong moisture meters.  The manufacturer then stated that those things were not accurate and I told him probably not as I would have thought that as long as I have had all this wood stored the moisture would have been less than what it showed.  I also told him that I had burned 7 cords of wood in that short time and if that was half of what others burn then these wood boilers are a waste of time and money as that is for only about two months into a winter where we have not had much very cold temperatures.  I'm of the opinion that this leak has nothing to do with wood moisture but rather faulty material and or workmanship.  I also question this brands ability to perform to what is advertised and to certainly not burn half as much wood.  I'm looking for those that know these wood gasification systems and what this scenario sounds like as I'm thinking this is a pretty good sales pitch and using the cured dry wood is a cop out to accepting responsibility for selling an inferior product.

[atvalaska]

  lots of  gasification guys here >  http://www.hearth.com/talk/forums/the-boiler-room-wood-boilers-and-furnaces.13/

[racnruss]

Welcome, Wardog.

I'm no expert but I have owned 2 different true gasification boilers on the same house for a direct comparison.

I've seen ads for the stove you own and have even talked to a man who called me when I had my first gasifier for sale.  He had the same boiler as you and almost the exact same story.  Unfortunately there is no accountability for making and selling crap.

If you want to continue heating with a boiler, buying one with a good standing reputation is what may be in your future.  Members here will help as much as possible.

Russ.

[CountryBoyJohn]

What make and model is this stove?? I've never heard of an updraft gasser that runs with 25 gallons of antifreeze!

[racnruss]

I'm pretty sure its on ebay as "lil powerhouse".

Seems like the term 'gasification' is thrown around pretty freely these days.

[slimjim]

OK so it sure sounds like defective product to me, could you post what it is for sure, we need a make and model #, pictures of the stove and leak will help, if you can't upload the pics, Please send them to one of the moderators and ask them to post the pics! if it is a leaker and the manufacturer will not honor the warranty then send them a link to this thread and perhaps they will then decide to step up to the plate.
 Bashing the product will do nobody any good but facts, dates and records could certainly help if published here.

[yotehunter66]

Welcome.

[wardog]

Thank you all for the welcome and the replies up to now.  I purposely did not state the brand but did give a pretty good description.  It is actually advertised as an outdoor wood-fired hydronic heater and once looking at it over it goes on to say "the finest in updraft gasification.  I have a ton of pictures that I have sent to the manufacturer but have not gotten a response from them since I cleaned the boiler and actually found the inside of the firebox wet.  I do not know how to post pictures on here and will wait until the manufacturer has had ample time to respond to my concerns other than state "it's all about burning too green of wood."  Guys, I've never had an outdoor wood burner of any kind and I am what's green but common sense tells me that my wood isn't too green and even if it were not cured as long as it has been, 6 weeks of burning too green wood would NOT cause a firebox leak that quickly especially when it appears right on a weld seam.

[slimjim]

Every manufacturer out there will occasionally have one that slips through with an issue, the important thing is how they handle the issue, I think you are handling it well by not bashing but you should certainly keep on them to have it fixed!

[wardog]

My intent with posting here was NOT to bash but rather to get input from those with the experience or experts about if  this unit  leaking in a mere 6 weeks or less and if burning 7 cords of wood in an area where the winter thus far has been relatively between 20-40 degrees is the norm for an OWB and if not why.  I'm in the Midwest so we don't get the drastic cold as those further north get and from what I have seen from this one I would have froze to death even at these temps or burned all the "cured" wood in my area.  I am searching for those with experience or expertise so I can have some knowledge to be able to say, that burning green wood could even cause this to happen in 6 weeks and using that much wood is totally out of the norm.

[slimjim]

A leak this soon after the initial install being caused by poor wood quality is ridiculous, that is simply an excuse period, as far as wood consumption, we would have to have an idea of your heat load, underground pipe choice and more info about the install and stove.

[wardog]

My home is 16 years old with 2352 square feet over a poured concrete basement that is 1680 square feet.  I do NOT heat the basement per se but that is where the furnace is that is a combination heating/air conditioning electric heat pump system and I know there is some bleed off.  The OWB is 40 feet from the house that is plumbed with 3/4" pex pipe running through the 8" basement wall into 6" schedule 40 PVC pipe that is glued together into one continuous piece.  Inside the 6" PVC is 5" diameter 4 foot long, two piece Styrofoam insulation that has two 1" or so holes in the middle for the pex.  This is made specifically for this purpose by Foam Plus LLC.  The pieces of foam are then duct taped together and slid into the schedule 40 PVC.  This one piece sealed pipe runs about three feet deep in the ground and is stubbed up into a concrete slab that my OWB sets on so as to enclose the pex in that PVC.  There is approx. 205' of total pipe in a closed loop system that is filled with the 25 gallons of boiler anti freeze.  80' of the total length of the loop is in the ground on the outside of the basement with 40 feet from the boiler to the basement and 40 feet returning from the basement back to the boiler.   This closed loop runs through a 50S brazed plate domestic water heat exchanger and then to a 16x18 water to air heat exchanger in the furnace plenum which is as big as I could get in the plenum.  The system has a taco o11 pump circulating the anti freeze.  I don't remember the size of the firebox but I load it as full as I can which is about 18 pieces of split wood about 20" long.  The vast majority of what I have burned is red oak.  I have temperature gauges installed in both the exit and return lines and I seem to get about a 30 - 35 degree drop in temperature when it has been in the low teens.  When it is around 30+ it doesn't seem to show much loss.  The firebox only has what appears to be a foil colored bubble wrap around it with the seams taped with actual foil tape.  I'm going to try to put a picture of the boiler below.

[slimjim]

Now we are getting somewhere, I'm not happy with the numbers on the supply and return temps, 35 degree difference between supply and return under a full load is a lot of loss for a low water volume stove, you could very well be shocking the boiler, let me guess, the return port dumps back into the boiler right where the crack showed up, I suspect that you are losing a lot of heat in the loop underground from ground water infiltration, 3/4 inch pex is pretty small pipe to be running on a Taco 0011 circ, I would bet it is pretty noisy huh. I am hoping you bought the pipe through the stove manufacturer or their rep as then they cannot use it as an excuse for the stove failure, if not you just gave them an out. I'm going to PM you my contact info, Please send me photo's , contact info for yourself and the manufacturer along with purchase and use history, I am pretty good with resolving issues and perhaps could help.

[cando attitude]

Thanks for helping out a fellow wood-burner, Slim.  It's good to have guys like you around.

 

Cando

[Jwood]

I agree Cando slim is one heck of a guy!