Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Portage & Main => Topic started by: EE Farm Boy on March 19, 2014, 07:37:26 AM
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Hello Gents. I have an idea that may help everyone in the long run. I am going through the process of planning and will be installing a P&M 28-40 throughout the summer before next winter. There is lots of good information on the forum but it is in piece-mill format. I decided, since I know nothing about boilers but being an engineer I am mechanically minded so I can learn, should start a topic that will take everyone through the entire process. I will ask questions that I have and post pics as the process moves forward but I want to do it under one topic. I plan on going through the entire process, from calculating heat loads, to designing the system, to installation. This will be a several month process, but I think it would be good to share exactly the entire process and all of the questions that newbie like myself has so everyone can see and learn. If this is ok with everyone I will begin the process:
Thanks,
EE Farm Boy
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Great EEFarm boy, how about some of you other guys getting involved as well, what is your load going to be like, how many GPM's are you looking for and what size and brand of pipe will you be using?
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That's a great plan! I did that with my "My Stove Journey" entry. It was kind of a journal for my project. Got lot's of questions answered and logged in 1 thread. One thing to do differently is don't post the pictures on THIS site. Post a link to some other provider. Eventually the pictures you post on here are going to be deleted. Good luck with your installation!
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I think this is an excellent idea. I will be doing a new install from top to bottom and therefore it would be helpful to me, as it would subsequent newbies.
Thanks,
Bob
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Ok, I will start by posting under this thread, what I did for heat loads etc.. By the way, any recommendation on free sites where you can post pics since not on this forum?
Thanks,
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The first step calculating heat loads :
I just went through this same thing. I pulled out the blue prints of the house and downloaded the trial version of this software[url]http://www.hydronicpros.com/downloads/[url]. Worked great as you can select the exact wall construction/windows, roof and floor for each room. Since it is free they put a lot of limitations around it like, you cant save, you can't print etc.. and it closes automatically after 15mins of use. But a little ingenuity can always find a way around things like this. If you have windows you probably have the snip it tool which will let you capture anything on your screen copy to your clip board and then past in a powerpoint or word file. I did one room at a time, then saved to a powerpoint. Closed the program and then reopened to continue on for the next room. Step and repeat and when you are done, add it all up. I heard good reviews that it was very accurate.
Taco website also has a free calculator as well which was close but there was some differences in the calculated BTU's, but I wanted to use at least two different sources to make sure it was right. I guess it is the engineer in me.
The software to select is heat load pro..
For my situation the BL28-40 will cover my heating needs but I live in North Carolina, very mild compared to most of you.
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Ok, several questions to follow, but I have been working on my plumbing diagram for my installation. Can those of you who know much more than I, comment on my plans?
1. Did I miss anything?
2. Are the manifolds with balancing valves better to control the flow?
3.How do you control the pressure in the closed loop system, is there a pressure regulator that I have missed on my drawing?
Updated*** added purge valve (hopefully in the right location), pressure regulator post pump, and a check valve (will only connect water hose to fill system then will unhook).
Thanks,
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...By the way, any recommendation on free sites where you can post pics since not on this forum?...
I use Photobucket.
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Yes it is a watts auto water feeder and back flow preventer, I'm sure there are other brands but that's what we use here.
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Slim Jim,
where in the system should this go in the plumbing diagram, after the pump but before the manifold?
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I created a photo bucket library. let me know if you can see the upload of my wood pile
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/?sort=3&page=0 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/?sort=3&page=0)
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Yes on both questions.
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I created a photo bucket library. let me know if you can see the upload of my wood pile
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/?sort=3&page=0 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/?sort=3&page=0)
Nice wood stacking there, EE Farm Boy.
oaky
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Awesome thread and great idea!
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photo bucket, flickr, Picassa by Google or you could even create a free Facebook account and use it for nothing but picture storage.
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I have been using photo bucket for years with great success. It's free too
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Went to the trucking terminal and picked up my Logstor pipe ;D. Pics uploaded http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/?sort=3&page=0 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/?sort=3&page=0). I am using the 1.032 " ID diameter pipe. I have 170ft going to the house, and then another 65ft going to the shop. This weekend I plan to uncoil and let it sit for a week or two on the ground to hopefully make it easer to get in the trench once it is dug. I hope these are the right fittings, the pipe supplier told me these would get me metric compression on the logstor pipe converted to standard male threads. A little nervous now, when I tried searching KTC I see they have class action lawsuits against them for leaking pex pipe and fittings :o. I wanted to double check but I can't determine the size based on what is stamped on top edge of the brass.
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After further studying, I have updated the diagrams, a little easier to follow now. I removed the old ones to not spam the forum with attachments. I have yet to receive any feedback on these but will keep waiting to hear if this will work.
Thanks,
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What did you do the drawings with out of curiosity?
Nice work with the sketches.
I don't know enough about the more involved systems to offer a opinion.
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I am sorry EE, I just saw this, the first heat exchanger inside your wall is a plate exchanger am I right? I would put a ball valve on each side of your fill and drain on the wood boiler loop, you may also want to install a snifter valve there as well, those are the 2 things that popped out at me, I'm going to be Wicked busy for a few days as I'm headed for that job in FLA monday and need to pack a bunch of crap to go with, PM me or call if you need anything right away.
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I used Auto Cad for the drawings, but only because it is one of the programs we have access to at work.
Thanks SlimJim,
If your passing by NC and have time, give me a shout.
Thanks,
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will Do!
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Ok, made quite a bit of changes and post the drawings later as I am finalizing my design. A question on DHW.
Is there anything wrong with using your water tank as a storage, using a flat plate exchanger with a circulating pump continuously. Of course the water temp in the water heater will heat to approximately your boiler temp, but then can you use an anit-scalding valve to mix cold water before going to the fixtures?
It is either do this, or install an aquastat to stop the flow of water through the heat exchanger at the manifold.
Also, what size flat plate, smaller size with more plates, or larger size with few plates or just look at how many BTU's is needed? if so how many?
Thanks,
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Most guys use a 20 plate. A circulation pump isn't necessary with a plate. It already gets up to 130+ degrees just going through the plates. So, your mixing valve is already going to be useful. It'll be a waste of money to heat it higher than that.
I have my plate exchanger plumbed in before my electric water heater that is turned off at the breaker. I've never run out of hot water. I've also gone 3 days without circulating any water though and still had to add a bit of cold water when starting a shower upon my return.
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So, the water in the tank itself is just cold and the plate is almost like an on demand water heater I presume?
So this drawing below is overkill and the bronze pump would not be needed? Family of 4 and the wife wants endless hot water.
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Rented the mini excavator for a week to dig the trench along with many more uses on the Farm and around the house. After digging the trench, I had to rent a core drill for my install. Using Logstor pipe so I had bore a 6" hole through 4" of brick and 8 inches of concrete filled cinder block. Not fun and let's just say I am glad I am not doing this at any older age. Boring a 6" whole with a hand drill is no easy task but as you can see in the photos: http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1) It can be done, even thought the guy at the rental place thought I was crazy. I needed a 6in hole so I could sleeve with 5" PVC and still allow room for the pipe. Worked great. The smaller hoes are for my pool piping into the basement where I will plumb to another heat exchanger. I also had to drill a 6" hole in the 4" slab concrete floor of my shop. On the outside I dug down a good 3.5" feet to make the turn but for the life of me I can't get the pipe to bend enough to get through the floor and it is not sleeved so there is some room to play with. I had to call it quites for tonight, I was just too exhausted to continue wrestling this anaconda. Anyone have any suggestions? I though about taking a strap to pull the pipe into a bend and hold it while I get it up through the floor. It has to fit, as the hole is deep enough I just have to figure it out somehow. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
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For anyone needing some help with bending and holding logstor pipe within the spec limits, the strap idea I had worked great. I had the pipe in the building in less than 15 mins after using the straps to hold the curve of the pipe. Worked so good I decided to sacrifice two of them to hold the pipe upright at the back of where the boiler will be sitting as I backfilled. Our land is so rocky, anytime we dig I have to back fill with creek sand, place about 3inches in the bottom of the trench and then backfill the pipe with another 15 inches or so before placing dirt in the hole. Pipe is installed, finally, and the yard is graded and almost ready for reseeding. This phase of the project is almost complete. More photes uploaded http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1). Also attached a pick of the straps holding my pipe.
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Strip the outer layer back a bit to allow you to push and pull at the same time.
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http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1).
Pipes in the ground, got the sidewalk formed up and the PAD, ready for concrete. Sowed the yard back down with grass, hopefully thing will back to normal shortly, Phase 1 of this project almost complete.
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New Pics uploaded. I was able to pour the concrete today for the pad and sidewalk.
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1)
QUESTION:
My pipe location front to back is off a bit. I did not notice and could not get them perfectly aligned. Does anyone know the space in the back of the BL2840 where the pipes come up? I need 10" to get both pipes up in the boiler. If it is less than 10", any suggestions on how to get them in the boiler. Everything was planned and done as I expected but this, one of the most important things got away from me as this pipe is very difficult to get just right.
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EE Farm Boy Nice Job
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Great Job EEFarmBoy. :thumbup:
I should have replied to your earlier post but the "best" way I found to bend the Logstor was....
DIG DEEP for the 90° turn coming up to your pad.
While it admittedly "cost me" more than 3-4 feet of Logstor piping, I was able to complete the turn and "pop up" right where I wanted with little to no problem because I dug down to 5 feet of depth the last 10-15 feet of the trench to the concrete pad location.
Install Note: I literally walked on the Logstor into the hole. The "back" of the hole was curve shaped through the dirt/clay in a semi-circular swing with the backhoe. The Logstor was allowed to "push" against the existing, undisturbed dirt as it bent up to vertical. Plenty of flume sand was utilized to hold the Logstor in the bottom and along the contour of the ditch. I hand tamped the flume sand every 6-8 inches and stopped about a foot shy of the finish grade. Last 1 foot was backfilled with heavy clay.
As far as your plumbing layouts, I am hoping slimjim, Scott and others will chime in. My Portage and Main dealer pretty told me the first item to plumb to was the water heater (sidearm or plate exchanger; doesn't matter) then the HX in the plenum of the forced air system but your design does not do this.
I do not know if this is correct for every system but that is what I was told.
Can dealers and system designers chime in here? :thumbup:
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The layout for my install that slimjim designed for me has the domestic first on the loop.
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Thanks for the feedback. I tried digging as deep as I could but unfortunately around here once you get to 3 ft its nothing but shell rock and you have to beat and bang to get the other foot to break loose. It took a loader and a big track hoe to dig by basement, and 5 solid days of digging. Most basements can be dug in 8 hours with a loader but not on this rock infested land.
I will post a new layout when things get to a stopping point after this first phase as I have a made a few changes based on people's feedback. Since the manifold and loops are in parallel, does it matter if the DHW is the first on the manifold as water will only flow through the loops if the zone valve opens when a loop calls for heat? The very first heat exchanger is liquid to liquid to convert the open system of the boiler to a closed system in the house. This way I can push the water up 30 feet to the attic with no issues with low boiling temps due to atmospheric pressure changes since it will so much higher than the boiler.
Thanks,
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EE, If I am understanding your question correctly your pipes didn't come out even with each other and putting them in as is may cause your boiler to be not square to the pad? I measured mine and the back cover of the boiler where the pipe enters is 8" deep and at the lowest point from corner to corner where the knock outs are is 16" across. Hope this answers your question.
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yes, thanks Crow, that is what I was looking for. I think I can make it work, once I peel back the outer casing I will have room to play with.
Thanks,
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I wouldn't be afraid to strip it down to an inch or two of the Crete, you can always sleeve and spray foam it after all is connected. It's the good pex so a heat gun under 325 degrees and you can make it do some tricks that you can't do with the cheap pex.
I normally sleeve it where it comes thru the pad to have some flex, and use 2x4 or steel pipe to anchor the lines to. Unistrut is your friend for a real nice job.
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Good solution sprinter
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Unistrut is your friend for a real nice job.
As SlimmyJimmy said, great suggestions Sprinter. I would like to investigate the UniStrut idea for my piping and the pad area.
Did you have a particular setup or arrangement or "model name" of the particular UniStrut product(s) that you would suggest using for such an arrangement? ??? Curious. :)
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Home Depot sells it 10' lengths I would get the galvanized not the green coated.
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Thank you JWood. I'll check Home Depot out then. :thumbup:
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Well, getting ready for the next phase of the project. Newly sewn grass is coming up, yard back to normal, and I pulled the trigger and ordered my BL 2840 today.... one step at a time...
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Thank you EEFarm boy, Please keep in touch!
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That's awesome Farmboy congratulations :thumbup:
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Well, its been a while since I posted so thought I would give an update. Nothing new to report on the boiler. Had to take a break, its Hay season. Once the hay is in the barn and the fields planted I can get back to ordering all of the components and get to work on the inside portion of project. Should be able to start back up posting in 2 or 3 weeks. I will have a few weeks to work on this between cuttings. Between work and the farm, not much time right now.
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As the old saying goes ( make hay when the sun shines ) do what you got to do, we will be waiting to hear from you.
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As the old saying goes ( make hay when the sun shines ) do what you got to do, we will be waiting to hear from you.
Yep, finished 25 acres up Sunday, another 18 acres down now, will mow another 20 in a day or so, then another 15 after that then move from that farm into town.
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Finally receive all of my parts to begin my install. After todays of work, the main section with all the necessary components are in around the manifold area. I have to do the supply side manifold this week and a few other items but here is what I have got so far.... pics are posted http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1)
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Finished my main loop assembly and beginning to run the secondary loops. Question for some of you. I have pressure tested the system and I am losing about 4lbs of pressure going from 30lbs (just before the pressure relief valve pops off) to right at 26lbs over a 24 hour period. I have crawled all over this assembly spraying with some soapy water looking for bubbles and I can't find anywhere that it is leaking but the air has to be going somewhere. All my secondary loops are still open as I have not run them yet, but closed off with a ball valve. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
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Slip a balloon over the open end of the ball valve and see what happens.
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That's a darn good idea! I would have just plugged the valves as that is more than likely where it is but Great Idea mlappin!
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That's a darn good idea! I would have just plugged the valves as that is more than likely where it is but Great Idea mlappin!
I've done the ballon thing to check the fill ports on tractor AC systems, sometimes a slow enough leak won't make a bubble before the solution runs off.
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AC on a tractor, WOW that's enough to not make me want to throw bales of Hay, I'll drive the tractor, Thanks!!!!!!
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AC on a tractor, WOW that's enough to not make me want to throw bales of Hay, I'll drive the tractor, Thanks!!!!!!
Well of course, done all my own AC repair for years since got tired of paying exorbitant prices to others to only have it half fixed. When I'm done with em it has to be really hot and humid before the compressor doesn't cycle even on the coolest setting.
I quit making idiot bricks years ago and only do round bales now.
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I quit making idiot bricks years ago and only do round bales now.
"Idiot bricks".... that is the first time I have ever heard anyone use that term other than me (for square hay bales). 8) Too funny! :P :thumbup:
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Thanks, well, I tried searching with a stethoscope each joint trying to hear any leaks. I finally said to heck with it, I hooked the water line up through the backflow preventer regulator and figured at this stage, I could find a drip, cutoff and blow the water out of the lines and repair. Connected the water, and no leaks, drips etc...anywhere. I left the water on now for two days and everything is dry. Now, time to start working on my secondary loops. Another note on leaks etc... every leak I had to repair was on a threaded connection. I only had one out of about 20 so I was pretty happy. I used the permatex automotive high temperature thread sealant on all of my threaded connections. It takes 24 hours to cure but I highly recommend applying the surface prep spray before and allowing to dry for 5 minutes before apply the thread sealant. This will cut the cure time down to five minutes and it worked like a champ. Bought both at Napa made by permatex. Use this and torque the heck out of the threaded connections and you will not have any leaks.
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I've had several plumbers and a hydraulics guy tell me most leaks are caused by over tightening threaded connections. I prefer the heavy duty thread tape myself but have never used a thread sealant like you described. Always something that eventually does dry out but never gets hard like you described.
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Another question: I have plumbed the hardest loop which goes up into the attic where I have a heat exchanger placed in the forced air duct work. Have it install and sealed with aluminum tape. Checked out it today and there was quite a bit of condensation on exchanger and aluminum tape due to the cold air vs warm attic temperature. Will this decrease the life of the exchanger? I know by code you have a drain pan with a float switch under the air handler, should I try to replicate the same under the heat exchanger connections? Just wondering what others have done as if there was ever a problem you would not know until water started coming through the ceiling.
Thanks,
Jackie
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Sounds like a good idea to me, are you sure it's condensation or perhaps a leak.
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yes, its definitely condensation. The AC is running quite a bit with the warm temperature we are having in NC so the heat exchanger is cold from the AC, but the parts of the heat exchanger that is exposed to the attic temps is where the condensation is forming. Also, along the top of the part of the trunk line where I sealed the heat exchanger with aluminum tape so I am almost certain its condensation since a leak would show up as dripping below. The condensation is present, but not enough so that water has dripped off of the exchanger on to the wood below. It's all dry below the connections / heat exchanger.
Thanks
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I think I would put in something for a drip pan, is it possible to have it drain to your existing condensation tank and let that drain it?
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Hopefully someone may have some insight on this one. So I am wiring my aquastat so that they break on temperature rise. I break the circuit to my outside heat pump when the water temp in the boiler is above 130 degrees. Everything seems to work fine as I check it out. Now, trying to get the zone values going. I installed a heat only thermostat on one zone it works as it should. The problem is that I always thought white was for heat. On the back of my air handler I have white coming out the back. I connected everything up and cut the thermostat to call for heat. There is nothing on the white wire, of course the fan is running and I can touch the white wire back to my controller over to the green and the valve works as it should. I am wondering if I just don't understand how the heat pump system works. I thought I should be able to call for heat, have 24VAC on the white wire which is tied back to my controller but for some reason it does not seem to be working. Any ideas?
Overall what I am trying to do is use my heat pump until I fire the boiler. Then if I were to go out of town I could pack the boiler full and when the water temperature cools the aquastat would close thus allowing the heat pump to run until I arrived home and restarted the boiler.
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Can you draw us a picture of your circuit, I'm useless with heat pumps but I would bet that Yoder or RSI could help with that end of it!
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Well, I decided to just use the green wire which is the fan. Every time the fan comes on the zone valve will cycle. The only issue with this is in the spring if I want to heat the pool and run the air, it will pump hot water through but since I installed a cutoff on my return side of this loop zone valve loop, I can just cut it off so no water should be able to flow through the loop. If worse come to worse, I will undo the wire to the zone valve, but I think I will be ok with just closing the return loop cut off.
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How about a manual switch for summer and winter to cut it off
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yes, that will work as well.
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Well, I am finally finished with my installation: Here are a few pics:
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0673_zps90de7384.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0673_zps90de7384.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1)
This is a pic of the back of the boiler. I could not get my pipes up through the bottom so I built a box that I insulated and use self tappers to the back of the boiler. Match the paint and it worked out great. I can remove the top to gain access if needed.
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0672_zps72b06fa5.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0672_zps72b06fa5.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2)
Picture of the pumps installed at the back of the unit. I have logstor pipe going to the house and a separate connection going to the shop.
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0664_zpsfd7ab9f4.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0664_zpsfd7ab9f4.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10)
Installed cold and hot water tap in the garage
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0663_zps5afb5fe4.jpg.html?sort=3&o=11 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0663_zps5afb5fe4.jpg.html?sort=3&o=11)
Pic of the old hot water tank from the house. I installed in the building and connected it all up.
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0662_zpsd46b75e4.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0662_zpsd46b75e4.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1)
Pic of the open loop design of the garage.
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0661_zps2552128c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=13 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0661_zps2552128c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=13)
Installed a mud sink in the garage. Its nice to have running water now in my garage
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0660_zps13156fb3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=14 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0660_zps13156fb3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=14)
Pic of my heater hanging from the rafters
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0659_zps71dd55ff.jpg.html?sort=3&o=15 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0659_zps71dd55ff.jpg.html?sort=3&o=15)
Pic of the manifold of the home. The house is a closed loop design. I have zone valves and a zone controller to all hot water to flow to the areas that are calling for heat. I used two aquastats normally closed but will open when the water temp in the pipes is above 130 degrees which breaks the connection to the outside compressor for my heat pump. This way if I need to leave for an extended period of time, I can load the heater and if the water cools, the heat pumps will work as if there was not any boiler ever installed.
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0657_zps4aa135e5.jpg.html?sort=3&o=17 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0657_zps4aa135e5.jpg.html?sort=3&o=17)
Pic of the water to air heat exchanger installed in my forced air duct.
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0656_zps1f6999f8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=18 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0656_zps1f6999f8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=18)
Pic of my home hot water circulator pump and aquastat. The pump will circulate the hot water in the hot water heater through the exchanger until it is 120 degrees, then shut off.
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0655_zpsb03b4e79.jpg.html?sort=3&o=19 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0655_zpsb03b4e79.jpg.html?sort=3&o=19)
DHW exchanger, and mixing valve for safety precautions.
http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0654_zps62764993.jpg.html?sort=3&o=20 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/media/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation/IMG_0654_zps62764993.jpg.html?sort=3&o=20)
Pic of my little heater in the garage.
My installation was a little more involved than most but I wanted it done the right way. I have at total of
Zone 1- First floor exchanger in forced air duct work
Zone 2- Second floor exchanger in forced air duct work for upstairs
Zone 3- Radiant floor heat in the Master Bath to warm the tile
Manual Zone- DHW loop
Zone 4- Garage Loop stand alone heater with fan
Separate building (Shop) is open loop with 2 manual zones:
Zone 1 stand alone heater with fan
Zone 2 DHW for shop
All in all, this is a very labor intensive installation that takes quite a bit of time if done correctly. I am glad that I started in the spring and finished before the start of cold weather. All that is left is to build my Shed over the boiler. Every thing is pressure tested and ready for water. The complete pics of my install is located here http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1 (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/jackiejohnson2/library/Portage%20and%20Main%20OWB%20Installation?sort=3&page=1)
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Now for the chemicals and water in the boiler. I have not looked at it closely but the boiler came with several gallons or 1/2 gallons of chemicals. I assume the directions are on the bottles?
Also, is it best to use normal tap water from a county municipal? I also have a salt water softener for the home, but I was not planning on using this water source to fill the boiler....I was afraid of the added salinity due to the softener causing issues? Which would be best, normal tap water, or the extra soft water from the softener?
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Nicely done! :thumbup:
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I would put in 1/2 gallon, fill the boiler almost full with tap water and fire it up, run the circs for a couple of days, draw off a sample and send it in to our office, they will test it and let you know if it is ok or something needs to be done
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NICELY DONE EE
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Nice job. Was you shop originally a pole barn? How do you like the sprayed on foam insulation?
I insulated my barn with fan fold then with Plyfoil over that.
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Yes, the shop was a pole barn, 6x6 treated post on 8ft centers. Rafters on 3ft centers. We decided to use the spray foam insulation this spring since we built the shop about 3 years ago. It seals it up tight, but pricey. It is a 36x50 15ft tall to the bottom of the rafter, top of the header and a 6/12 pitch gable roof. It cost me 7k to have it sprayed with closed cell 2-3 inches thick. Decided to go ahead an insulate since we made the decision to order the P&M this past spring.
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What should the aquastat for the boiler be set at? It comes from the factory at 165 but I thought the water should be heated to 185?
Thanks,
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Truthfully I don't know why they don't bump them up from our factory, they come pre set from Jonson at 165, please turn it up to at least 185 with a 10 degree differential, I run them up here at 195 and 5 degree differential, as long as it is not steaming out of the vent tube it is fine to run it hot!
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Thanks, SlimJim,
Tested everything and after getting the air out of the closed loop system, everything is working great. Hot air is flowing out of the vents, DHW etc.... much better than the marginal warm air that comes from a heat pump.
I do have one issue thought, in my shop which is open loop I sized the pump to small. I am using a Taco 007 SS, 300.00 mistake but oh well, live and learn. What size Taco pump do you think I need for the following setup:
Distance from boiler to the shop: 70ft.... then I have a manifold that splits the hot water..one going to the domestic hot water heater exchanger. Then the other path must travel vertical 18ft then horizontal 20ft to the stand alone unit heater. Should I go with a Taco 011 or will I need a Taco 013 to over come the vertical rise?
Thanks,
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One other question. Does anyone have a schematic or instructions on how to set this the fan so that once the water temp cools to say 160 that they fan will cut off. This will keep everything warm for as long as possible instead of blowing cold air into the firebox as your wood gets low.
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I have to look for my drawing and the wife has me on a mission, could you PM or E-Mail me to remind me and I'll get it to you by monday AM
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Here you go EE farm boy, I couldn't find a way to PM it to you, if you have any questions I'll PM you my phone #
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What is the purpose of the timer?
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Set the timer so the water has a chance to get up to temp before the low cut off can turn the fan back off.
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The timer is a great way to do it. I had a similar setup on my first boiler but I used a pushbutton and relay with a holding contact to keep the fan going till it reached the setpoint.
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This seems less expensive and easier for me to understand for some reason.
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Any thoughts on the pump size? Taco 013 or Taco 011?
Also, does the Honeywell require the installation of the temp probe in the plumbing or can you utilize the one that is already there going to the A419?
Thanks,
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EE could you get me a drawing of what you are doing with the circ, i'm not sure i'm understanding the question, 2n'd the strap on aqua stat straps directly to the supply line from the boiler and has it's own probe that is inside it's mount.
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Last Post for this thread ;D ;D ;D ;D. I finally got around to posting picture of the final setup. Everything is working great and I am pleased with how comfortable the house is now...