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Author Topic: A few observations about Logstor  (Read 3450 times)

mlappin

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A few observations about Logstor
« on: December 29, 2014, 10:45:55 PM »

So had the new line from the boiler to the shop in the ground for awhile now but just haven't been able to get the new one from the house to the boiler installed. Was either busy with harvest, or when I did have a few days free the rental place didn't have the trencher in I wanted to use. Finally everything jived and went and got it last Monday, got most of the trench done Monday night, started again in the rain Tuesday morning. Took most of the rest of the day finding a few tiles that we cut while trenching, then used the trencher to back fill most of it before taking it back as the skid steer and mini excavator were too big to get in part of the area I ran the Logstor.

1: Find an old reamer like used to clean the ends of black or galvanized pipe after using a pipe cutter on them, chuck it in a cordless drill and use that to chamfer the ends of the Logstor and the fittings go right in with a little spit or wire pulling lube. My fittings had two o-rings on the inner barb, then a split ring that went over the pex then a nut that tightened that down just like a compression fitting. The reamer would also work well with Sharkbite or other push fittings.

2: Getting the outer sheath off. Using either a razor knife or a cordless skill saw with the blade set at a 1/8" of a inch go completely around the sheath, then one cut along the length, using a long large handle screwdriver I rapped the sheath a few times wit the handle of the screwdriver and it practically fell off. Using the razor knife go down the length of the pex between them so you don't accidentally score the line, using the screw driver pry them apart then using the handle rap the insulation up and down the length of it, then bend them back and forth several times, once loose I was able to twist the insulation off the lines in several large pieces.

 I had to expose about 5 feet in the basement, using the above method I got the insulation off both lines in about 7-10 pieces total.

3: MUCH better flow, my delta t pump is actually working correctly as the old "one inch" lines were starving it for water. I used the old 1" lines to run water to a hydrant, 3/4" fittings that are meant for polyethylene water line fit just right in the supposed 1" pex, a few crimp rings and water tight.

4: No heat loss what so ever that I've been able to measure. The old line when I started hand digging to find the corner once I got 18" down the ground was actually steaming, I could feel the sides of the trench and tell which way I needed to dig to find it. The one corner by the house is a mess and we are waiting for it to settle so we can finish repairing the downspout drains, have maybe a few inches of cover over the Logstor, had a little water in the trench over the Logstor, had ice on the water this AM.

5: Wood use is considerably down, I built this stove years ago and have almost 15 years of experience with it and can load it to within a piece to get 12 hour burns, first day I got it back up and running I loaded as normal for the length of burn I wanted and the expected lows that night, had enough wood left in the AM I didn't add any till six that night. Getting better at guessing as it's a whole new ball game now but when you're not heating the ground it doesn't seem to take near the wood :o

6: If the fire does get low, the water temp doesn't plummet like it used to as the heat is staying where it's supposed to.


So....while not a professional by any means, and paying for the stuff will definitely make certain unmentionable parts pucker, it's worth it. Don't be a tight*ss like I was years ago and do it right the first time. Not that I really want some temps like last winter as -40 was a bit extreme, I'm really interested to see what happens if we get any bitter cold this winter as most likely with the soupy mess I have that part of the trench may stay open till spring before it ever settles enough to finish fixing the tiles.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 11:03:30 PM by mlappin »
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Re: A few observations about Logstor
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2014, 11:17:03 PM »

No doubt its a fantastic product if you can afford it buy it, not always an option for everyone. Good post mlappin!
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mlappin

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Re: A few observations about Logstor
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2014, 11:21:59 PM »

No doubt its a fantastic product if you can afford it buy it, not always an option for everyone. Good post mlappin!

Yah, think it was getting close to $13.50 a foot.

BUT, while it hurts buying a 250 foot roll of the stuff when I think of the extra wear and tear on the saws cutting the extra wood, the extra fuel and oil, the extra time it took, and the wear and tear on my back cutting all that extra wood, $13.50 a foot actually starts to sound pretty cheap. Not to mention my system works right now, I've had the heat on in the house, the side arm going and the snow melt system and the delta t pump didn't max out to maintain a 20 degree delta t. Granted the water coming out of the sidewalk when first starting it was in the mid 30's instead of below zero like last winter but still....
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Re: A few observations about Logstor
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2014, 11:24:31 PM »

I would build or buy a "lesser" stove than I wanted over not using Logstor or one of the polyurethane foamed varieties of underground pipe.  Just me though...  :thumbup:
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mlappin

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Re: A few observations about Logstor
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2014, 11:25:11 PM »

Picture of the ream I was referring to, this was my grandfathers and was meant to be used in a large brace but unfortunately dull enough not to work on steel pipe anymore but was perfect for plastic.


« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 12:17:36 AM by mlappin »
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mlappin

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Re: A few observations about Logstor
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2014, 11:36:31 PM »

I would build or buy a "lesser" stove than I wanted over not using Logstor or one of the polyurethane foamed varieties of underground pipe.  Just me though...  :thumbup:

Originally though my redneck pipe worked pretty well, when first installed I only lost a few degrees from the boiler to the house, but the last three or four years is when I noticed I was getting snow melt over it quite often in a few spots. I may have been losing more heat than I thought for longer time though given how much wood I was going thru.

I took schedule 35 four inch pipe and wrapped it in four wraps of Ply Foil (bubble wrap with a foil face on each side) then slid that inside of a 6 inch schedule 35 pipe. For the corners I used two 45's, laid the 6 inch out then figured out how to lay out the inner 4 inch 45's. Filled the fabricated corner with spray foam from a can. Buried the whole thing then pulled my lines thru the inner four inch.

When I dug the corner up I cut it apart the foam was completely gone and the 4 inch had broke and pulled apart, I imagine it did the same at the stove as well. So the heat that the four inch was supposed to keeps in was escaping from the corners and up and down the length of six inch outer pipe. I won't guarantee that it didn't have water in it either, but father cut the outer pipe with the mini excavator when digging Monday night, then it rained all night, so next to impossible to say as I didn't cut the elbow apart till Tuesday noon.

I didn't have a lot in it, the pipe was practically free from a contractor friend I have, the Ply Foil came from a place I worked for, that was free as well, I paid for the PVC glue, duct tape used to hold the ply foil to the pipe while wrapping it and spray foam.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 12:13:56 AM by mlappin »
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Re: A few observations about Logstor
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2014, 02:30:26 AM »

Great story Marty, Thanks for sharing it! I haven't seen a reamer of that vintage in a long time, Nice!
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mlappin

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Re: A few observations about Logstor
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2014, 05:46:51 AM »

Great story Marty, Thanks for sharing it! I haven't seen a reamer of that vintage in a long time, Nice!

Thanks, I also still have the pipe vice, pipe threader and the old wooden "fittings box" Grandpa carry around when doing plumbing. All vintage stuff. Still also have the first new thing he bought in '54 after buying the farm, a fiddler seeder that goes on the back of a tractor for spreading seed/fertilizer. Also still use several of the tractors he bought.

it makes me wonder where this country is going when as soon as one of the older folks pass away the kids or grandkids auction everything off. From the neighbors east of us that lived into their 90's I have a vintage cement mixer complete with cast iron wheels, from the neighbor west of us I have a church bell, he spent a pretty penny on it as it has his name cast into the yoke. Tools from another neighbor farther east of us. From another neighbor that passed a uni shear that he said I could have if I could fix it, took a set of brushes was all. Took awhile but I also got the lathe back from the uni shear neighbor. Had to wait till the other guy that bought it had a auction so I could buy it. Old old lathe, flat belt for the drive, flat belt for the threading drive, have to manually take a few gears off and install different ones to change feed rate, old but very accurate in the right hands. Younger generations just don't appreciate what it might have took for the older generation to pay for this kind of stuff.
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Re: A few observations about Logstor
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2014, 07:22:14 AM »

Yes, I understand.  I am one of a few around here that like to tinker and use tools.  In the last year, I have "inherited" several boxes of tools from families that were cleaning out dad's or grand dad's house after a death in the family and wanted me to have them since I would  likely use them.  All of them have sons and grand sons that should have an interest but don't.  I always say that if they change their minds, they are considered on a long term loan and will get them back to them, never happens though.
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mlappin

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Re: A few observations about Logstor
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2014, 08:23:19 AM »

Had some light fluffy snow yesterday, about gone everywhere but in the trench, just enough cover over the Logstor to hide it. The old line would melt snow with several feet of soil over it. Gonna take awhile before we can finish that, when Dad couldn't find one of the tiles we installed a few years ago he automatically went deeper, didn't need deeper, just had to climb in the trench and clean the dirt out of the ends so we could see it. If I finish it now and when it settles it will pull the tile apart, know this from past experience.

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Re: A few observations about Logstor
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2014, 01:57:25 PM »

Why not just use a pex-al-pex reamer tool? Should make a cleaner bevel on it and would be the right size for the metric pex in the Logstor.
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mlappin

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Re: A few observations about Logstor
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2014, 04:21:20 PM »

Why not just use a pex-al-pex reamer tool? Should make a cleaner bevel on it and would be the right size for the metric pex in the Logstor.

Well....already had the old pipe reamer. Would make Grandfather proud to see his old reamer still being useful for something as fancy as exotic imported pipe from Europe.
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