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466
Electronics / Re: best pump for 185' run
« on: December 30, 2013, 04:15:45 PM »
Taco or grundfos are very safe and reliable pumps. Even the wills are decent. Running a pump at max in proper conditions is fine, that's what they were meant for. Is debris, lack of flow and long down time that hurts them the most. It doesn't take much rust to form around the impeller to lock it up, and exactly why some controllers cycle pumps during shoulder months.
Calculating total equivalent length of pipe will give you head. Head is not elevation when it comes to pumps. That's why they are technically called circulators. What goes up must come down, equal displacement of fluid. Circulators create a high and low pressure on either side of the impeller and the fluid follows the laws of physics to balance the pressure by movement.
This is exactly why the delta T and delta P pumps are gaining popularity, it takes the guess work or calculating out of the equation for the lazy plumber.
Too much pump erodes metal components, kills efficiency and creates noise. The system or HE has a specific design delta T and GPM flow to meets its performance. Before anyone can help you, a lot more info is needed to calc. Brand wise , taco or grundfos is all I would recommend, and in and open loop system bronze or stainless takes the corrosion factor out.
Calculating total equivalent length of pipe will give you head. Head is not elevation when it comes to pumps. That's why they are technically called circulators. What goes up must come down, equal displacement of fluid. Circulators create a high and low pressure on either side of the impeller and the fluid follows the laws of physics to balance the pressure by movement.
This is exactly why the delta T and delta P pumps are gaining popularity, it takes the guess work or calculating out of the equation for the lazy plumber.
Too much pump erodes metal components, kills efficiency and creates noise. The system or HE has a specific design delta T and GPM flow to meets its performance. Before anyone can help you, a lot more info is needed to calc. Brand wise , taco or grundfos is all I would recommend, and in and open loop system bronze or stainless takes the corrosion factor out.
467
Plumbing / Re: Spaghetti FEST
« on: December 30, 2013, 03:55:19 PM »
I was referring to the separator inside. A 007 is a small pump, it doesn't take much head to kill the flow on a 007. And if its going into a Flat plate HE?? That why I was wondering about supply and return temps.
468
Plumbing / Re: Spaghetti FEST
« on: December 29, 2013, 01:36:10 PM »
Wow.....
Nice job and hydraulic separator there Idaho. A 007 ,,,,what are your supply and return temps at both the heat or and inside at the HE? Is the HM close to the house?
Nice job and hydraulic separator there Idaho. A 007 ,,,,what are your supply and return temps at both the heat or and inside at the HE? Is the HM close to the house?
469
Plumbing / Re: help sizing pumps
« on: December 29, 2013, 01:28:17 PM »
Honda that's a great link at Taco, and lots more info too. I think that should be a must read since a lot of owners are DIY and that info sure would cure a lot of problems.
What pumps are in each loop now? What are the delta T's for each zone? That will help you determine where you have to go. With unknown systems or zones that can't be calculated for what ever reason ( pipes buried behind walls,etc) I'll stick a VDT bumble bee pump or 3 speed grundfos in there and monitor what speed gives me the proper delta T the zone needs.
Back to the 1" S&R lines, they will only flow so many gpms, and the Taco site and or its flow pro videos will show this too.
50 GPM would eat the boiler and any metal fittings in the loop in short order. That would be a full water exchange in just a couple minutes even in a huge boiler. There is a reason the pipes are always oversized. Can't think of it the same as your potable water system.
What pumps are in each loop now? What are the delta T's for each zone? That will help you determine where you have to go. With unknown systems or zones that can't be calculated for what ever reason ( pipes buried behind walls,etc) I'll stick a VDT bumble bee pump or 3 speed grundfos in there and monitor what speed gives me the proper delta T the zone needs.
Back to the 1" S&R lines, they will only flow so many gpms, and the Taco site and or its flow pro videos will show this too.
50 GPM would eat the boiler and any metal fittings in the loop in short order. That would be a full water exchange in just a couple minutes even in a huge boiler. There is a reason the pipes are always oversized. Can't think of it the same as your potable water system.
470
Site Suggestions / How about deleting the spam threads
« on: December 29, 2013, 01:17:21 PM »
I see a lot of spam threads and posts. Isn't anyone monitoring and deleting them. Some old ones too. Just curious what's going on.
471
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
« on: December 29, 2013, 01:13:39 PM »
Anymore ideas on what's causing the creosote even when temps are well above the 140 min.? Is it a cold spot that can't maintain the temp while the rest is fine? Any reddish ash would be a sign of iron erosion. I wonder if there is a design flaw in the water jacket not allowing even flow, or other condition causing the cold spot.
472
Plumbing / Re: Planning a new install with radiant
« on: December 28, 2013, 10:11:16 PM »
Yes you will need the aluminum panels, without it it won't heat anywhere near sufficient, less control of temps as well. No matter how well you insulate. You need the heat to spread well, and pex doesn't radiate good at all. Its nice to make use of existing equipment, but if its not sized right, your wasting btu's or fighting a loosing battle.
If installed with proper valves and purge valves pumps or zone valves will work fine. But you HAVE to size each pump correctly or use delta T pumps, not so with zoners.
Then you also have to figure how many zones and t-stats due to HL differences and flooring material differences. Carpet, wood, tile and wood composite require different temps to heat the room equally and or protect materials like hardwood from overheating.
If installed with proper valves and purge valves pumps or zone valves will work fine. But you HAVE to size each pump correctly or use delta T pumps, not so with zoners.
Then you also have to figure how many zones and t-stats due to HL differences and flooring material differences. Carpet, wood, tile and wood composite require different temps to heat the room equally and or protect materials like hardwood from overheating.
473
Plumbing / Re: Storage?????
« on: December 28, 2013, 09:58:37 PM »
Storage can be good, I don't think I would add as much as you listed, maybe start with the 265. The longer your burn times the more efficient your season. They are easy to insulate, any tank, frame a box around it and fill with cellulose, spray foam, insulation of choice. A pump and a few controls, or stat. OWB's already have large volume for this reason, extending tending times. Pump size, pipe size are critical to use and charge the battery(storage tank). Any vessel used under 15psi does not need ASME certs.
I've seen some with home made copper coils too, 1"-1 1/2" pipe for an exchanger. A storage tank can also be used for a safety in case of a temp over run, to quickly bring down temps.
I've seen some with home made copper coils too, 1"-1 1/2" pipe for an exchanger. A storage tank can also be used for a safety in case of a temp over run, to quickly bring down temps.
474
Plumbing / Re: whats kind of underground piping should i use??????
« on: December 28, 2013, 09:31:33 PM »
Slim Jim said it perfect. Never does a permanent install with anything else than logstor. If they won't post specific test data conditions and heat loss , it's not worth the risk. If they were anywhere near as good as their claimed R values, they would be posting all data and then some. Save now and spend more later. S&R lines are the last place to skimp, and you do get what you pay for.
However if you've Learned the hard way about the "fancy wrapped" lines, they still can be salvaged if you want to self insulated the trench. It has to be waterproof period, spray foam is the easiest, but Roxul works well also. I've seen anything from shower pan , the white commercial flat roof. Material and heavy mil plastics to line trench. Spray foam, beads, foam board, PVC, culvert material, whatever could be used of found to work. Many times foam products can be found in the industrial parts of a city being thrown out.
Depth doesn't matter for a good insulpipe.
However if you've Learned the hard way about the "fancy wrapped" lines, they still can be salvaged if you want to self insulated the trench. It has to be waterproof period, spray foam is the easiest, but Roxul works well also. I've seen anything from shower pan , the white commercial flat roof. Material and heavy mil plastics to line trench. Spray foam, beads, foam board, PVC, culvert material, whatever could be used of found to work. Many times foam products can be found in the industrial parts of a city being thrown out.
Depth doesn't matter for a good insulpipe.