Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: BearLady7 on January 31, 2009, 02:57:15 PM
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I am sure glad I found this site BEFORE buying an OWB. But I need help in deciding which to buy. I am going to buy before the next winter comes. I will be heating a 5,000 sq. ft. house and an outdoor hot tub. I live in Missouri. I thought about including my outbuilding, but I am really not sure. So I am doing my research now.
Before reading for hours on this forum, I was looking at Hawken Energy, Central Boiler, Woodmaster and Hardy. I have ruled out Hawken Energy when I read several posts about the black stuff coming out of the back.
Several of my neighbors have Hardy’s and stated that if I buy any other, I would be sorry I did. But they couldn’t explain why, only that it was the best….
When looking at the Hardy, I seem to think the ash door is so close to the bottom that it would be a problem for my husband to remove ashes since he is partially handicapped. Is the Hardy a “Forced Air Draft?” How is that different?
My closest neighbors are about 2 miles away. I also have acess to plenty of wood, that’s not a problem.
I read the “Buyer’s Guide” How to Purchase an Outdoor Wood Furnace. And found several issues I should watch out for such as the ones below.
That stainless was better if it’s not cheap grade stainless.
Doors should be Cast or mild steel and have a recessed lip around the outer edge. Inside door gasket should be covered by a silicone seal.
The stronger structural designs is round and the weakest is square or rectangular, so choose a round boiler because they have fewer welds.
Is says to shop for a high heat model that reduces ash because ash is the major cause of corrosion.
I am so confused about which to buy, I need some input about which one to buy. I am hoping someone can help.
Thanks,
BearLady7
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welcome to the forum, you will likely get an abundance of info from members here and you will have to sort through that as well as what you have allready. i guess i will go first
personally i frown away from the stainless ...my reasoning is this...most use the 400 grade, i think that is cheap, even at scrap yard prices it shows..for 300 grade stainles at my local scrap yard right now you will recieve .30 cents a pound for it..the 400 grade is only worth .03 cents per pound
most folks that use these OWB can weld mile steel or have a neighbor who can there may not be a good stainless welder near by a lot of folks so for a repair i would stay away from it
and then there are the horroe stories you read about the kinds of luck a lot of stainless OWB owners tell..3 or 4 years and the stainless boxes are rotting through or cracking
rectangle versus round...mine is round but i really have no negitive opinion about rectangle..with the capabilities of many shops now a days there may be not much more welding on one..many of the angles can be bent in a break
i do believe the thickness of the fire box and the water jacket are very important
force draft or not? mine is forced, i do feel a slight advantage for them, some say more heat goes up the chimney but i like to think (just my opinion, no facts) that that is true but there is less smoke so i am getting a cleaner burn..both stoves may be letting just as many BTU's out the stack but mine are going out in heat and teh natural draft is going out in unburt BTU's (smoke) so i say force draft is greener (again just my opinion)
I also think if you are just thinking of buying one, you should search out all the newer modles that have an EPA certification as they claim they can burn up to 1/3 less wood and if you are talking about heating 5000 square feet of home and domestic water in your area of the US (i don't mean to scare you) but i think an honest estimate of wood is well over ten bush cords mayby as high as 16 with the average OWB of "old technology" unless your 5000 sq.ft. home is brand new and very well insulated
those are a few of my feelings...you will get many more i am sure. good luck in choosing
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BearLady, look at this topic that's been hashed out for the last week or so. It may give you some info too.
http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=152.0
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I forgot to say my house is 2 years old.
I thought stainless was not the choice to go. I also was thinking forced air. But which ones are EPA certified?
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i dont follow them too closely, but i think they have some sort of colored (yellow i think) placard on them stating they have passed some sort of testing for emissions
don't take what i have stated to you as my beliefs as gospel but use it to ask many more questions of the sales people you talk to. i have heard that some of the dealers that sell OWB sell both stainless and mild steel and in fact the stainless models come with a shorter warranty than the mild steel..i would aks why if stainless is supposed to be better
also if and when you buy an OWB be sure and ask for lots of information on hooking it up..i am sure everyone here will tell you how important it is to not "cheap out" on the underground piping
if and when you get an OWB you will find it is like your oven..your lawn mower..your car...like them your OWB will have it's own "personality" and you will have to get to know it as you have your other machinery in order to keep it in shape and dependable working order
you won't find (i dont think) on this site, many sales pitches for certain models but it may sound like it as you will be hearing personal opinions from owners that most likley have had only one model, they may say it works fine and they are glad they bought it..and that is more than likley the truth. what you will find here (i think) is the testimony of real OWB owners who will speak truthfully about their experiences (good and bad) with what they are using and how it works
if you are able to read between the lines you will be able to decide if you really want one (OWB) as you hear about the time to cut wood,,drag it home,,split, pile etc. tend to it twice, maybe three times daily. it is not for everyone but that is for you to decide and by asking questions and hearing truthful answers i hope we all can help you make a decision that is best for you and your family
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Bearlady, I live in a similar sized house but mine is very old. I have the Central Boiler 5648, at the time the biggest unit they sold. I've seen the Woodmasters and like those as well. The Hardy dealer was afraid the Hardys he had at the time would not sufficiently heat my home, but it's been several years ago.
I would recommend that you go to www.heatinghelp.com and pick up one of the free heat loss calc cds from Slant Fin. I think it's important to have some idea of your heating demand. That being said all of the OWBs are very different in how they calculate their BTU output. I think Central Boiler claims the 5648 is good for over 500,000 btu/hr. I would say unless the conditions are absolutely perfect you're going to get about half of that. I load mine about twice each day and give it a stir when I come home from work. If I didn't have it I couldn't afford to live in my home, period.
That being said I go through about a pickup truck load of wood each week. I've never really had the opportunity to stack my wood and figure out how many cords that is. I'm not a fan of stainless from what I've read on it. I don't have an opinion on the round vs. square box. I think a good OWB manufacturer is going to make sure there is some QC in their process so I can't see it making a difference if comparing 2 quality units. I do like the urethane insulation because of it's moisture resistance.
I think your installation will be very important on how well your system works, and how well your lines are insulated. My unit is a natural draft and it seems to work fine, I have toyed with going higher on my chimney for a couple reasons. It does increase your draft and it keeps the smoke up and away from your and your neighbors rooflines.
Let us know how your search is coming, we seem to all be curious folks...
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I've also got a similar sized home, 4800 sf or so... I have radiant heat in the floor and garage, but also use a coil in two furnaces. I have a CB6048 and go through about the same as ckbetz. And it looks like his feeding schedule is identical to mine. I hear alot about the Hardys and when I talk to people about them, I seem to hear either Hardy, Woodmaster or Central Boiler. Of course everybody loves their unit best... they spent alot of money on it and don't want to talk bad about it.
Who knows which is best....? not me.
I don't have a forced air either but it seems to me that if I did, I would go through more wood. I'm real curious about them. Not sure how they would work. Mine burns fine without it, and it seems if I left the door open, which is allowing more airflow, it would create more heat and burn the wood that much faster. Now I know that when it gets to temperature, which it would with a forced air fan, it stops blowing and I'm guessing, shuts a damper door so it smolders. I'll bet the water gets to temperature faster though with it. I just would have thought it would go through more wood. I'm assuming that's how it works and it must work well because the Hardy Boys (and girls) have about the same burn times I think.
I haven't heard anything good about stainless. Only bad. I may have missed a couple threads on this though...
On Square vs round.... I agree that there is more seams to leak. If you go with a popular brand, they should have the welding down to a science and the warranty should help. I think my CB has a 25 year corrosion warranty if I'm not mistaken. My brother has the same as mine, just the previous version of it, and is going on his 10th year with it, with zero problems. When he does replace, he said he'll go with the same.
I like the baffles inside the CB versus the Hardys. I may be wrong but I don't think the Hardys have a baffle system like the CB. It seems to me it would be more efficeint. But again... I think we all kinda have very similar burn times so I don't know....
Maybe it comes down to price, in that case I shoulda got a Hardy.
Of course the CB's are prettier...? Maybe that's where my extra money went.
Good luck!
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WillieG brought up a good suggestion about EPA certification and burning LESS wood. So I started to search for those. And I found the CB Classic 2300 and the Greenwood Aspen. I will keep searching for any others to compare.
It will take me from now until October (when I plan on buying) to switch back and forth and find the one best for me. I will let everyone know which I finally buy. But keep the information coming and I thank everyone for it.
I am retired so I just go from one site to the next and compare different models and features.
I just think it is cheaper than PROPANE.... :thumbup:
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As far as the E-classic, I talked to a dealer who sold one and ended up letting the customer use his own 6048 because the customer hated the E-Classic. His complaint was not being able to keep the water temp up. The dealer told me that he also had to get used to the E because of the way it burns wood. He stressed the importance of using only well seasoned wood for proper operation. He also said there's another learning curve on how to load the E. He did say once he got it down he used quite a bit less wood but didn't have a good estimation of how much. He told me a dealer friend of his in NY used an E-classic since they first came out and uses a third of the wood than with his 6048 and loves it.
You probably should read up on EPA regs too in case the rules change between now and October. Oh, he also said he is going to have an E-classic for a great discount since it's been used for about a month. So it might be a good time to get the unit even if you don't install everything. Just have some seasoned wood on hand.
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i've been in your situation, with many many days of research i feel that central boiler is the best unit. i've looked at most and talked to a lot of users, they just seem to be the most satisified
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Scott7m,
Which Central Boiler model did you buy or look at? Did you research the Classic 2300? If so what do you think?
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BearLady: as others have said, welcome to our little forum.
I've had a Hardy H5 for about 3 years now and love it. The ash door is low to the ground, but they give you (at least, they gave me) a little shovel to reach back in and scoop the ashes out with. And you only have to clean them out every few weeks-it's not a weekly chore. That said, it's up to you if you guys have the physical ability to perform this task. It is something to consider.
I've posted on here at great length the pros and cons of my Hardy. I will reiterate here, though, that I really enjoy the furnace and am truly of the belief that for us, it was the right one to buy. Burn times are good, it's reliable, it's simple mechanically and electrically, and I can burn anything from coal to seasoned wood to rotten crap off the bottom of the pile.
No, Hardy's don't have baffled tops. They're just flat. And (knock on wood) I haven't had any problems with the stainless steel. Sctatch hit the nail on the head about how the forced air system works. I'm glad to have it.
Good luck in your decision making process, and make sure you stay active with the forum. You'll be surprised how much you learn in a short period of time. I know I am.
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...and I can burn anything from coal to seasoned wood to rotten crap off the bottom of the pile.
There's another thing to consider. Coal. I'm not sure if the CB's can burn coal. Not that I want to, or if you even want to. But it might be nice to be able to burn coal if needed. Same thing with corn. Might want to check on those with whatever OWB you consider.
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here is the scoop...... drove over 2 hours to find the closest dealer near me. I have to say I was extremely impressed with the quality of the stoves. As far as the eclassic 2300.. Definitely not for me! the dealer there woudln't even reccomend it to me, he said, well i guess they are ok if you have perfectly dried wood, and you don't mind having a lot more stuff that could potentially tear up. He said based on what he'd seen, they "may" use slightly less wood, but not to the point where it matters..
I'm a man of simplicity, so it's not for me.
I'm now trying to become a dealer for central boiler..... There isn't one anywhere near me and I like their product and have talked to many customers and they all seemed pleased.
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hello
have you looked into aqua-therms eco-one they are having a good sale on them this month . what state are you from?we have not had any bad comments on these units and work awsome.we have over 300 units out in the feild with no problems!so if you need more info e-mail me back and ill get you some info.
Thanks
Dvae Bast
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Have not looked at Aqua-therms but will research them.
I live in Saint James, MO, about 100 miles West of St. Louis.
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I think that it pretty obvious what I have to say if you read some of my other posts!
Stay away from Wood Doctor especially it they are trying to sell you a Stainless Steel OWB actually made by Global Hydronics but sold as a fully warrantied Wood Doctor product! ::)
I am being told my entire 2000 lbs furnace is "a part" that I must ship to the factory half way across the country for repairs should it develope a leak!! :'(
This could cost me around $4000, half what I paid for the furnace in the first place!! :bag:
What kind of warranty is that!! ???
Leaky >:(
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hello
i got a dealer in mo that you can call and talk very nice guy it is mechanical systems in columbia mo. #1-800-364-7159 we have sold alot to this dealer and he is very infomative on everything ,
Thanks
Dave B
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Dave,
What's his name at Mechanical Systems?
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opps forgeot his name lol !!!!! brian!!!!!! give him a call ok
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I would recommend a hawken, I have had one for the last 3 years and the only problem that i have had was i heard a noise comeing from the motor for a couple minutes and it was quickly replaced by hawken no questions asked, I also noticed that the black stuff comeing out of the furnace by the door turned you off from hawken if you look under the central tab there is a post there that a guy with a central has the same issue. Burning greenwood will make this happen with any furnace. Dont be misled by one guy that is impatient look at my post under buyer beware and maybe that will make you reconsider.There is only one thing that i had to modify and that was add anouther batt of insulation in the back to cover up the pumps once they were installed. When i was doing my research I looked at a few different things such as I wanted legs so i would not have to pour a concrete slab,I like the 4 points of adjustment on the door, the firebox design. keeping heat transfer and dead spots in mind, I work for a concrete company and we use a boiler system to heat the water that makes the concrete in the winter months and their setup has never had anything different than round also i looked at old steam locomotives and their fireboxes have always been round also so to me that said that it had stood the test of time. Also corosion is something to think about too if you have any dead spots or flat boxed spots where sediment can be trapped in chances are that is where it will start. Forced air i like ,my buddy has a central with natural draft mine has a forced air. We have basically the same setup he might have 30 ft more of underground, his takes alot longer to get to temp with a whole lot more smoke, as for wood consumption i would say that mine will last a little longer his stays burning a whole lot longer where mine seems like it gets the temp faster then shuts down. We both like our owb's and are very happy with their preformance. And i am very happy with hawkens warrenty and their quick no questions asked response to my problem. Also read the warrenty before you buy it seems like all are pro rated but some only cover the firebox for a very short period. Good luck
Tim