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[Scott7m]

The electric co op here has incentives, but there minimal, like $1000 off a geothermal system.   They won't allow me to advertise in any of there publications but openly allow geothermal installers to advertise.  I think that pretty much speaks for itself, then to see how they fought me on my solar and went as far as saying it doesn't work in ky lol

As much as me and you have talked Willie I'm simply amazed how many programs you all have related to energy.  Although I'm not a huge fan of govt involvement in a lot of things, I think putting money towards clean energy is important but you can't do it how we do here in the u.s.  example would be giving billions to solar companies for no reason, the extra money should have went to consumers who wanted to invest in solar that way the money would naturally flow with supply and demand.  But some liked the idea of giving the companies billions and wondering why it didn't help demand

[willieG]

our government has handed out billions to them guys putting up those huge windmill and they are mostly from teh states. they areup here taking all our government will give. the biggest windmill crooks here is an outfit called "nextera" or something like that and i am told it is owned by florida power company?

there are lots of goofy government incentives, some good some bad

[Scott7m]

our government has handed out billions to them guys putting up those huge windmill and they are mostly from teh states. they areup here taking all our government will give. the biggest windmill crooks here is an outfit called "nextera" or something like that and i am told it is owned by florida power company?

there are lots of goofy government incentives, some good some bad

Yea some of them will never pay off or help anyone really, those are the under the table deals where a company like you mentioned lines a few pockets and there in the loop

[slimjim]

NEVER is it a good idea for our government to STEAL my money or yours to inflate or prop up an industry that can't make it on it's own, NEVER, this is just another govt scam.

[NaturallyAspirated]

geothermal is far better than a heat pump sitting outside your home

Even when it costs 4x as much!?

To me geothermal is the biggest joke ever...  When it first came out my parents bought one, it cost about $7500 to do there home, now the same job is in the 22k range.

There is heat pumps now that have crazy high seer ratings, some 22 seer or higher, geothermal is normally 17 seer

With that being said though, technically geo should be better for heating because its heat source is warmer than the winter air.  From what I've saw, a heat pump here in ky quits working and keeping up on most homes around 40 degrees, the geothermal takes that number down to probably 28-30 before we start seeing the heat strips come on.  My parents electric bills aren't bad, $240 in winter, but there house doesn't feel warm at all, even when it reads 73 it doesn't feel the same as the owb heat

Man, all my friends are telling me to dump that pesky wood burning boiler idea and go all geothermal heat pump!

The geothermal would be more important for summer cooling than winter heating.

Neal

[NaturallyAspirated]

Wow, I think you are severely overthinking it, it does not need to be complicated, Storage tanks/ blending tanks ?

Well the idea behind that is to blend the geothermal and wood systems together.  The most important heat point is the output of the tank, not the boiler or pump direct output.  That way the systems have a simple path of combination, and buffering, where one system can spool up while the other spools down.

As far as the complications go, I hope to do some serious SCADA control of the system, so that the entire house is easy to maintain, tracks usage, predicts zone settings, ect. 

This way I can tie in the entire energy systems (I hope to have 5-10kw of wind turbine installed, and possibly some solar), along with all the other home automation controls and monitors.

That said, how can I have both systems, and simple it down? 

Neal

[Scott7m]

Something ive noticed is how things travel in waves around the country. .  Here, 10-15 years ago the buzz was all about geothermal.   now, not so much at all.  Sounds like from various comments that the ne is in a similar frnzy over geo as we were here years ago.  Up keep and rising cost put it out of reach for most

[MattyNH]

 I'm in a Co op power at well..Biggest thing right now in New Hampshire is the Northern Pass...Its a 180 mile pass from Quebec to Deerfield NH of Hydropower.. Lots of Opposition and Favorable on this.. Due to the impact of the scenery etc etc..

[NaturallyAspirated]

Just had another idea, would three way valves to put the output of the geothermal heat pumps outputs directly into the plenum exchanger for the cold output and the hot water exchanger for the hot output before it returns into the geoloop?

Neal

[NaturallyAspirated]

Ok, so I know it looks a little daunting, but here is my sketch so far:

http://www.nealmastel.com/fs/Geo-Boiler.pdf

I'm thinking I may need to implement some thermostatic mixing valves to keep the temps down after the heat exchangers for the living quarters and the garage/shop.

Looking for suggestions for make/model on the circulators, the heat exchangers, and the garage radiators.  I would like to get some circulators that have some discrete - or even better some analog 4-20ma feedback so I can design failure scenarios into the control system.

Neal

[NaturallyAspirated]

Have been doing some research and reading a lot.  Did some updating to my original ideas.   

http://www.nealmastel.com/FS/geo-furnace.pdf

Neal

[Sprinter]

Yup it's called the yuppie green energy bandwagon. And it does travel like a weather front or waves.
I think the OP has a perfect design planned out, now comes the final design by a radiant engineer, John Siegenthaler has many plans and diagrams with geo/ wood systems. The theory with a hybrid system like this is to be. Elite level efficiency. And to get into that level were talking 6 figures for an install. Yup if you want to achieve the claimed eff levels and system reliability, your not gonna do it with a $20-30k geo unit.  The type of radiant will need supply temps under 130 degrees to be able to operate in the 90th percentile of efficiency. This means all infloor and in slab radiant with some climate panels or radiant panels. The zone and system controls alone for your diagram will be big dollar. This something we see in magazine projects. With mechanical rooms you can eat off of. Not a DIY project. I like it.

[Sloppy_Snood]

I think the OP has a perfect design planned out, now comes the final design by a radiant engineer, John Siegenthaler has many plans and diagrams with geo/ wood systems. The theory with a hybrid system like this is to be. Elite level efficiency.

If he can get the Feds to acknowledge his system as a true hybrid system, does this mean the OP will be able to drive in the HOV lane? 

Double benefit possibly...

[NaturallyAspirated]

Yup it's called the yuppie green energy bandwagon. And it does travel like a weather front or waves.
I think the OP has a perfect design planned out, now comes the final design by a radiant engineer, John Siegenthaler has many plans and diagrams with geo/ wood systems. The theory with a hybrid system like this is to be. Elite level efficiency. And to get into that level were talking 6 figures for an install. Yup if you want to achieve the claimed eff levels and system reliability, your not gonna do it with a $20-30k geo unit.  The type of radiant will need supply temps under 130 degrees to be able to operate in the 90th percentile of efficiency. This means all infloor and in slab radiant with some climate panels or radiant panels. The zone and system controls alone for your diagram will be big dollar. This something we see in magazine projects. With mechanical rooms you can eat off of. Not a DIY project. I like it.

I plan to give it a he'll of a go!  Haha.  I've been studying lots of John's work.  What an invaluable resource.  Folks here are also helpful. 

I'd like to run the radiant closer to 120*.  130 is not practical out of the geo unit.

Neal

[LittleJohn]

Trust me on going with radiant heat, ITS almost like CRACK - with out all the horrible side affect. 
Once you have radiant you will not know how you lived with out it.  No more cold tile floor, for the wife to complain about when running to the bathroom in the middle of the night.

In regards to how to hook up system, may want to scope out the Central Boiler website - they have soem pretty good illistrations on how to hook up different application, even mulitboiler. 

Also, you can get away with not having a back up; heat source, pump, fill in the blank.  Just remember MURPHY's LAW - everythign seems to break just after close on the coldest day, darkest night ....
  I woudl never install a heating system with only one heat source, yes new equipment is less likely to break, but it does not mean it WON'T.

Have you started looking into what your BTU load will be for your set up???  Cause your OWB, might need to be a BEAST (If memory serves, garage = 120' x 60' = 7200sf) + SnowMelt + DHW + Hot Tub + Pool = ALOT of BTU's I feel