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[oaky]

Im new to OWB. Have read all the good and bad reviews Just dont  know if the  CB Classic would be a better than a PM Gasser or CB Gasser. It looks like the gassers do not use as much wood. But have there issues with electronics. Any advice would help. I live in southern In and if I use a CB classic I have to use a 6048 because of EPA regs. The CB Classic would be over kill but dont know if that's a bad thing.

I'm having a hard time understanding why EPA would want an OWB owner to use an oversized unit, my thinking is, if it is oversized, it would have a heck more idling time opposed to having correct size OWB where it will work a bit harder, burning cleaner. I'm new to this forum, but not to OWB operating. In the past few days here, I have been picking up a lot of useful info, It makes perfect sense to have a OWB work a little harder at times than to have it idling most of the time. I'm referring to the latter part of my comment about how EPA is thinking what is right  size OWB for us to use when come to conventional burners.

oaky

[CountryBoyJohn]

The stipulation is that you can own a conventional stove if it is sized over 350,000 BTU.  In the language, this is considered an "industrial" size that no homeowner would ever need.  In an industrial application, theoretically, there are no residents to be bothered by the particulates in the smoke. 

And here is where the guvment looking out for our own good runs smack dab into that little problem known as "unintended consequences."  What happens is homeowners, like me, don't want a gassification unit for various reasons.  Price, finiky, and just flat out don't want to be friggin told what we can and cannot buy and use on our own private property!!     So, we "oversize" our stove to get above that threshold and get a conventional stove. 

Yet another example of guvment intrusion.  If they would just mind their own beezwax and let the free market work itself out, we'd all be better off! 

[mlappin]

LIKE^^^

[slimjim]

The stipulation is that you can own a conventional stove if it is sized over 350,000 BTU.  In the language, this is considered an "industrial" size that no homeowner would ever need.  In an industrial application, theoretically, there are no residents to be bothered by the particulates in the smoke. 

And here is where the guvment looking out for our own good runs smack dab into that little problem known as "unintended consequences."  What happens is homeowners, like me, don't want a gassification unit for various reasons.  Price, finiky, and just flat out don't want to be friggin told what we can and cannot buy and use on our own private property!!     So, we "oversize" our stove to get above that threshold and get a conventional stove. 

Yet another example of guvment intrusion.  If they would just mind their own beezwax and let the free market work itself out, we'd all be better off!

  Skip the like button where the heck is the I LOVE IT button

[Sloppy_Snood]

In hopes of benefitting all other Indiana residents wanting to know what the "rules" are for outdoor woodburning furnaces in our state, here are the direct links to Article 4. Burning Regulations the Indiana Department of Environmental Management (IDEM) has posted on their website regarding "Outdoor Hydronic Heaters":

LINK:  IDEM Webpage Discussing Out Door Hydronic Heaters (Click Here)

LINK:  Indiana's Article 4: Burning Regulations (Click Here to Download .pdf file)

LINK:  IDEM "Fact Sheet" on Outdoor Hydronic Heaters (Click Here to Download .pdf file)

For those that might have trouble downloading and/or viewing the .pdf files, here is an exact copy of the text for "Rule 3" sections 326 IAC 4-3-1 through 326 IAC 4-3-6 :

"Rule 3. Outdoor Hydronic Heaters

326 IAC 4-3-1 Applicability

Authority: IC 13-14-8-7; IC 13-17-1-1; IC 13-17-3-4
Affected: IC 13-17-1-3; IC 13-17-3

Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), this rule applies to any manufacturer, supplier, distributor, or person that:
(1) distributes or sells;
(2) markets;
(3) installs;
(4) operates; or
(5) owns;
an outdoor hydronic heater in Indiana.
(b) Sections 3 and 6 of this rule do not apply to the following:
(1) An outdoor hydronic heater that:
(A) is or has been owned by a person for his or her own personal use; and
(B) is distributed or sold within three (3) years of the effective date of this rule to another for his or her own personal
use.
For purposes of this subdivision, "personal use" means the use of an outdoor hydronic heater by an individual solely for
residential space or domestic water heating, and not to service a commercial or institutional establishment.
(2) An outdoor hydronic heater available for sale in an Indiana dealer's inventory before the effective date of this rule.
(3) Homemade units.
(4) An outdoor hydronic heater where the manufacturer has demonstrated that the unit is designed for a thermal output of
three hundred fifty thousand (350,000) British thermal units per hour (Btu/hr) or more.

(Air Pollution Control Division; 326 IAC 4-3-1; filed Apr 18, 2011, 11:27 a.m.: 20110518-IR-326050332FRA)

326 IAC 4-3-2 Definitions

Authority: IC 13-14-8-7; IC 13-17-1-1; IC 13-17-3-4
Affected: IC 13-17-1-3; IC 13-17-3

Sec 2. The following definitions apply throughout this rule:

Indiana Administrative Code Page 11
BURNING REGULATIONS
(1) "Clean wood" means untreated wood that has no paint, stains, coatings, glues, or any chemical treatment.
(2) "Distribute or sell" means to:
(A) distribute;
(B) sell;
(C) advertise for sale;
(D) offer for sale;
(E) lease;
(F) ship;
(G) deliver for shipment;
(H) release for shipment; or
(I) receive and deliver, or offer to deliver.
The term does not include the distribution or sale by a manufacturer of an outdoor hydronic heater that is installed outside
of Indiana.
(3) "Homemade unit" means an outdoor hydronic heater built by a person for the builder's personal use. The term does not
include installation kits.
(4) "Manufacturer" means any person who constructs or imports into the United States an outdoor hydronic heater.
(5) "Outdoor hydronic heater" means a fuel burning device:
(A) designed to burn wood or other approved renewable solid fuels;
(B) that is intended for outdoor installation or installation in structures not normally occupied by humans; and
(C) that heats building space or water, or both, by the distribution, typically through pipes, of a fluid heated in the
device, typically water or a water and antifreeze mixture.
(6) "Start-up period" means the time period beginning with flame stability after first charge of wood fuel and lasts no longer
than two (2) hours. The term includes only initial start-up where no previous wood coal bed exists and does not include
refueling.

(Air Pollution Control Division; 326 IAC 4-3-2; filed Apr 18, 2011, 11:27 a.m.: 20110518-IR-326050332FRA)

326 IAC 4-3-3 Emission limit for outdoor hydronic heaters installed after the effective date of this rule (<-- Sloppy's Note: This section DOES NOT Apply to "commercial size units" with a demonstrated thermal output of 350,000 BTU/hour or more)

Authority: IC 13-14-8-7; IC 13-17-1-1; IC 13-17-3-4
Affected: IC 13-17-1-3; IC 13-17-3

Sec. 3. After the effective date of this rule, except as provided in section 1(b) of this rule, no person shall distribute or sell
or install an outdoor hydronic heater unless:
(1) it has been qualified through U.S. EPA's voluntary outdoor hydronic heater program to meet the Phase 2 particulate
matter emission limit of thirty-two hundredths (0.32) pounds per million British thermal units (lb/MMBtu) heat output, with
no individual test run exceeding eighteen (18) grams per hour; and
(2) a U.S. EPA white tag is affixed to the unit in a readily visible or accessible location. The white tag signifies that the unit
meets the Phase 2 emission limit for U.S. EPA's voluntary outdoor hydronic heater program.

(Air Pollution Control Division; 326 IAC 4-3-3; filed Apr 18, 2011, 11:27 a.m.: 20110518-IR-326050332FRA)

326 IAC 4-3-4 General requirements for existing outdoor hydronic heaters

Authority: IC 13-14-8-7; IC 13-17-1-1; IC 13-17-3-4
Affected: IC 13-17-1-3; IC 13-17-3

Sec. 4. (a) After November 30, 2011, all outdoor hydronic heaters that have not been qualified to meet the Phase 2 emission
limit in section 3 of this rule must have a permanent stack extending five (5) feet higher than the peak of the roof of any occupied
building:
(1) located within one hundred fifty (150) feet of the unit; and
(2) not located on the same property on which the heater is installed.
(b) The maximum stack height required under this rule is twenty-two (22) feet above the ground. (Air Pollution Control
Indiana Administrative Code Page 12
BURNING REGULATIONS

(Air Pollution Control Division; 326 IAC 4-3-4; filed Apr 18, 2011, 11:27 a.m.: 20110518-IR-326050332FRA)

326 IAC 4-3-5 Operating standards

Authority: IC 13-14-8-7; IC 13-17-1-1; IC 13-17-3-4
Affected: IC 13-17-1-3; IC 13-17-3

Sec. 5. (a) No person shall operate an outdoor hydronic heater from May 1 through September 30 if the unit is located less
than three hundred (300) feet away from an occupied building not located on the same property on which the heater is installed,
unless the outdoor hydronic heater has been qualified to meet the Phase 2 emission limit in section 3 of this rule.
(b) A person shall burn only clean wood or other approved renewable solid fuel in an outdoor hydronic heater.
(c) No person shall burn any of the following items in an outdoor hydronic heater:
(1) Any wood that does not meet the definition of clean wood.
(2) Garbage.
(3) Tires.
(4) Lawn clippings or yard waste.
(5) Materials containing plastic.
(6) Materials containing rubber.
(7) Waste petroleum products.
( Paints and paint thinners.
(9) Chemicals.
(10) Coal.
(11) Glossy or colored papers.
(12) Construction and demolition debris.
(13) Plywood.
(14) Particleboard.
(15) Manure.
(16) Animal remains.
(17) Asphalt products.
(d) Home heating oil, natural gas, or other fuels recommended by the manufacturer may be used as a starter or supplemental
fuel for dual-fired outdoor hydronic heaters.
(e) No person shall cause or allow the emission of a smoke plume from an outdoor hydronic heater to exceed an average of
twenty percent (20%) opacity, a measure of the amount of light obscured by particulate pollution, for six (6) consecutive minutes
in any one (1) hour period. Upon initial firing of the unit where no wood coal bed exists, visible emissions may not exceed forty
percent (40%) opacity for twenty (20) consecutive minutes during the start-up period. Measurements of opacity shall be conducted
in accordance with 40 CFR 60, Appendix A, Method 9* by a representative of the commissioner.
(f) Outdoor hydronic heaters must comply with all applicable:
(1) state and federal laws; and
(2) local ordinances.

*This document is incorporated by reference and is available from the Government Printing Office, 732 North Capitol
Avenue NW, Washington, D.C. 20401 or is available for review and copying at the Indiana Department of Environmental
Management, Office of Air Quality, Indiana Government Center North, Tenth Floor, 100 North Senate Avenue, Indianapolis,
Indiana 46204.

(Air Pollution Control Division; 326 IAC 4-3-5; filed Apr 18, 2011, 11:27 a.m.: 20110518-IR-326050332FRA)

326 IAC 4-3-6 Notice to buyers (<-- Sloppy's Note: This section DOES NOT Apply to "commercial size units" with a demonstrated thermal output of 350,000 BTU/hour or more)

Authority: IC 13-14-8-7; IC 13-17-1-1; IC 13-17-3-4
Affected: IC 13-17-1-3; IC 13-17-3

Sec. 6. (a) After the effective date of this rule, no person shall distribute or sell, or install, any outdoor hydronic heater unless
the seller or dealer provides the buyer or lessee with a copy of this rule.
Indiana Administrative Code Page 13
BURNING REGULATIONS
(b) The buyer or lessee shall sign a notice at the time of purchase or lease that includes the following:
(1) A statement acknowledging receipt of the rule, as follows: "I, (buyer or lessee's name), have been provided a copy of 326
IAC 4-3 (Outdoor Hydronic Heater Indiana Air Pollution Control Board rule) from (seller or dealer's name) at the time of
my purchase or lease.".
(2) The name, address, and telephone number of both the seller or dealer and the buyer or lessee.
(3) The address of the location where the outdoor hydronic heater will be installed.
(4) The make and model of the outdoor hydronic heater.
(c) Within seven (7) days of making delivery of the outdoor hydronic heater into the possession of the buyer or lessee, the
seller or dealer shall mail or otherwise provide a copy of the signed notice to the department.

(Air Pollution Control Division; 326 IAC 4-3-6; filed Apr 18, 2011, 11:27 a.m.: 20110518-IR-326050332FRA)"

[slimjim]

   Where is the like button

[mtoll]

Look at 326 IAC 4-3-5 Operating Standards  # 10

[mlappin]

Look at 326 IAC 4-3-5 Operating Standards  # 10

Did you see 15 and 16?

Why you even want to burn sh*t is beyond me, I do know of a place that processes mainly beef, they use their OWB as an incinerator.

[Sloppy_Snood]

Look at 326 IAC 4-3-5 Operating Standards  # 10

I was wondering if anyone would "see" that mtoll.    Technically, you cannot burn coal in your "outdoor hydronic heater" in Indiana.

The messed up thing is that we have no less than 20 active coal mines in Indiana and the largest percentage of electricity in Indiana comes from coal-burning power plants! 

"We're from the government.... we're he to help." 

[slimjim]

AAAAH the infinite wisdom of our government. 20 active coal mines in Indiana and you can't burn it in your OWB but here in Maine we have no coal but the most forested state in continental US and we can use a Non EPA OWB as long as it burns only coal and must have an EPA stove to burn wood. Does this not seem to you guys that they are stealing our LIBERTIES by controlling the fuel we use and prohibiting the use of the fuel we have in our back yard.

[farmboythegreat]

dryed  dung has been  burnt  for  a long long time  by cold people all over the world 

[slimjim]

I've burned it in our chip boiler!

[oaky]

AAAAH the infinite wisdom of our government. 20 active coal mines in Indiana and you can't burn it in your OWB but here in Maine we have no coal but the most forested state in continental US and we can use a Non EPA OWB as long as it burns only coal and must have an EPA stove to burn wood. Does this not seem to you guys that they are stealing our LIBERTIES by controlling the fuel we use and prohibiting the use of the fuel we have in our back yard.

                   .........

[mlappin]

dryed  dung has been  burnt  for  a long long time  by cold people all over the world 

Yes it has, if you have no other choice, certainly not the premium option.

How do you get it dry enough? Most of the time it's already breaking down before its getting dry at least in our pastures especially if they have any grass to eat.

[mtoll]

 I have 6 horses guess Ill not have to cut wood anymore, coal and manure look out neighbors