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1
Plumbing / CPVC interaction with hot water from boiler
« on: October 13, 2017, 07:26:41 AM »
My house is plumbed with CPVC which has a max heat of 200 degrees. Since heat from a plate HX would theoretically be around 180 or less, I assume you can still run the hotter water from a plate HX for domestic hot water?
I would splice in the plate HX in copper or galvanized pipe then convert back to the a short distance down the line. My water heater is a tankless water heater so would bypass it in the winter time.
I would splice in the plate HX in copper or galvanized pipe then convert back to the a short distance down the line. My water heater is a tankless water heater so would bypass it in the winter time.
2
Plumbing / Types of Copper
« on: October 13, 2017, 07:17:14 AM »
Was searching the forum for confirmation of what type copper to use in my system. I did find one post that I believe had the types reversed in its answer. My recollection, Copper M is for general residential use. domestic water, in the wall, etc. It is thinner. Copper L is for commercial and hot water systems. It is thicker. This is probably the better choice for our systems.
Incidentally Copper L is also used to plumb air compressors in automotive shops as well. There is special stress solder that is recommended to thwart cracks in solder from vibrations of the compressor.
Incidentally Copper L is also used to plumb air compressors in automotive shops as well. There is special stress solder that is recommended to thwart cracks in solder from vibrations of the compressor.
3
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / A-Coil placement
« on: September 14, 2017, 01:08:03 PM »
I successfully raised my A-Coil 6" yesterday so I can JUST slip in my HX. When I popped the plenum open on my forced air LP furnace, I saw that there was a aluminum box spacer on each side of the A-coil but it wasn't blocking the side completely so air was forced to only travel through the A-coil.
I assume that just like the HX, the space around the A-coil should be blocked so 100% of the air goes through the a-coil for maximum transfer of cold to the air. We are talking at least 3"x 10" on each side of gaping hole. 60 sq inches!
Any reason to not have 100% or was the installer just lazy?
Mike
I assume that just like the HX, the space around the A-coil should be blocked so 100% of the air goes through the a-coil for maximum transfer of cold to the air. We are talking at least 3"x 10" on each side of gaping hole. 60 sq inches!
Any reason to not have 100% or was the installer just lazy?
Mike
4
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / No room for heat exchanger
« on: August 27, 2017, 11:01:34 AM »
I have a boiler that I hooked up to another building last year and am ready to run it to the house. Problem: I popped off the side of the plenum of my late '80's Williamson highboy and there is no room between the A coil and the top of the plenum before it heads down the horizontal distribution.
So does that mean I need to replace the furnace before tackling the boiler? It is a 350' run from boiler so I am already looking at the expense of the Thermopex. I am guessing I will need to put in a new furnace which these days are much smaller footprint for the btu. Then postpone the boiler run for a few years.
Old furnace so the upgrade is worthy but defeats the purpose of going to a woodboiler.
Hate to just run the 50KBTU secondary building with a CL6048. So much overkill.
So does that mean I need to replace the furnace before tackling the boiler? It is a 350' run from boiler so I am already looking at the expense of the Thermopex. I am guessing I will need to put in a new furnace which these days are much smaller footprint for the btu. Then postpone the boiler run for a few years.
Old furnace so the upgrade is worthy but defeats the purpose of going to a woodboiler.
Hate to just run the 50KBTU secondary building with a CL6048. So much overkill.
5
Central Boiler / Purpose of drain valves on CB Thermostatic valve assembly?
« on: January 18, 2017, 03:08:22 PM »
In the CB Install design illustration http://centralboiler.com/media/2503/install-central-boiler-forced-air-system-c110.pdf, it shows a boiler drain on each side of the thermostatic valve sandwiched between two valves.
Do I assume this is so you can not only bleed the system but ensure the thermostatic on the heat exchanger side is getting water (meaning the thermostatic is working)?
Also provides a filling site for the lines as well.
In my design, I switched out the boiler drains with Webstone 1" Full Port Forged Brass Ball Valve w/ Hi-Flow Hose Drain & Reversible Handle, IPS Union x IPS #40434/50434. This wash cheaper and includes the unions so I can take out the Thermostatic Valve easily. This serves as both the inline valve and boiler drain in a combination part.
I also put in a Webstone 1" IPS Full Port Forged Brass Ball Valve with IPS Hole #41724 before the #40434 on the supply line so I can install a temperature gauge (tells me the loss from OWB). Didn't need the valve but this was the part I could find that included an IPS hole for a temperature gauge.
Probably should put unions inline on the outgoing to complete the Thermostatic valve removal option.
#41724 http://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/control/product/~product_id=41724
#50434 http://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/control/product/~product_id=50434
Do I assume this is so you can not only bleed the system but ensure the thermostatic on the heat exchanger side is getting water (meaning the thermostatic is working)?
Also provides a filling site for the lines as well.
In my design, I switched out the boiler drains with Webstone 1" Full Port Forged Brass Ball Valve w/ Hi-Flow Hose Drain & Reversible Handle, IPS Union x IPS #40434/50434. This wash cheaper and includes the unions so I can take out the Thermostatic Valve easily. This serves as both the inline valve and boiler drain in a combination part.
I also put in a Webstone 1" IPS Full Port Forged Brass Ball Valve with IPS Hole #41724 before the #40434 on the supply line so I can install a temperature gauge (tells me the loss from OWB). Didn't need the valve but this was the part I could find that included an IPS hole for a temperature gauge.
Probably should put unions inline on the outgoing to complete the Thermostatic valve removal option.
#41724 http://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/control/product/~product_id=41724
#50434 http://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/control/product/~product_id=50434
6
Plumbing / Thermostatic valve needed?
« on: January 15, 2017, 09:48:11 AM »
CB says yes for warranty. My OWB was bought slightly used so no warranty but CB's requirement is reportedly to reduce sweat on the boiler that can induce rusting if the fire goes out.
My dealer says he never installs them on his. The previous owner never installed it. It was still hanging on the screw under the boiler where it is placed in shipping.
Seems everyone is using them. But it does incur an install cost of (2) 1/4 turn valves, 2
water boiler spigots (I assume to test troubleshoot if it becomes inoperable). (2) T pipe fittings, etc. if installed as pictureds on CB sheets.
Thoughts?
My dealer says he never installs them on his. The previous owner never installed it. It was still hanging on the screw under the boiler where it is placed in shipping.
Seems everyone is using them. But it does incur an install cost of (2) 1/4 turn valves, 2
water boiler spigots (I assume to test troubleshoot if it becomes inoperable). (2) T pipe fittings, etc. if installed as pictureds on CB sheets.
Thoughts?
7
Plumbing / Size of plumbing inside... 3/4" or 1"
« on: January 15, 2017, 09:42:00 AM »
Working on plumbing the inside of a 50K BTU furnace application (not a house but an office). I am plumbing with 2 T valves prior to accessing the heat exchanger so I can install to a small water heater if I decide to later. The hot watter is not used much in this building so not a priority.
Question is size. I am running copper. I had planned on 1" since my heat exchanger is also 1" but since the thermostatic valve included with the boiler is 3/4 and the two T valves are also 3/4" I am questioning my thought to use 1" copper. Especially since the Rahau I installed from the OWNB is 1" (so therefore 3/4 ID).
There will eventually be a second run from the OWB to my residence but that comes later this year. Not a factor here I assume.
1. I could just use 3/4 since everything is 3/4 already and only serving a 50BTU force air furnace.
2. I could plumb 1" to 3/4 adapters at each valve which enables me to use 1" 90 elbows to reduce flow drag overall.
3. 3/4 copper is comparable to 1" PEX (3/4 ID) so no difference
4. 3/4 is cheaper
Thoughts?
Question is size. I am running copper. I had planned on 1" since my heat exchanger is also 1" but since the thermostatic valve included with the boiler is 3/4 and the two T valves are also 3/4" I am questioning my thought to use 1" copper. Especially since the Rahau I installed from the OWNB is 1" (so therefore 3/4 ID).
There will eventually be a second run from the OWB to my residence but that comes later this year. Not a factor here I assume.
1. I could just use 3/4 since everything is 3/4 already and only serving a 50BTU force air furnace.
2. I could plumb 1" to 3/4 adapters at each valve which enables me to use 1" 90 elbows to reduce flow drag overall.
3. 3/4 copper is comparable to 1" PEX (3/4 ID) so no difference
4. 3/4 is cheaper
Thoughts?
8
Electronics / Duel thermostat, single multi-stage thermostat, aquastat? Who uses what
« on: December 20, 2016, 06:36:48 AM »
Installing my OWB. It appears using two thermostats so your furnace can work as a backup is pretty common. Some experienced quirks depending on furnace design. (air conditioner coming on, etc.)
There are a few posts where people are successfully using a surface mounted Honeywell aquastat on the incoming line before the heat exchanger. This allows one to use only one thermostat and the aquastat determine if the furnace burner comes on or not depending on the temp of the OWB water. This is my preferred but my CB OWB parts supplier had never heard of doing this. Sent me home with an extra thermostat.
Have seen people attempt to use a sincgle multi-stage thermostat but appears no one was successful.
Since the 2-thermostat arrangement seems common was curious if the other method is becoming popular.
There are a few posts where people are successfully using a surface mounted Honeywell aquastat on the incoming line before the heat exchanger. This allows one to use only one thermostat and the aquastat determine if the furnace burner comes on or not depending on the temp of the OWB water. This is my preferred but my CB OWB parts supplier had never heard of doing this. Sent me home with an extra thermostat.
Have seen people attempt to use a sincgle multi-stage thermostat but appears no one was successful.
Since the 2-thermostat arrangement seems common was curious if the other method is becoming popular.
9
Plumbing / furnace then water heater or water heater then furnace?
« on: December 18, 2016, 09:40:38 AM »
Stupid question probably but Central boiler shows running lines first to water heater and then to furnace and then back to OWB. I am actually wanting to run it to the furnace and then through a bypass valve and on back to the OWB. The water heater may be added at a later date via the bypass valve.
Does it matter whic gets the heat first?
Does it matter whic gets the heat first?
10
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Cutting concrete ona dime-Best practice?
« on: November 29, 2016, 11:34:28 AM »
trench is dug up to the foundation outside the utility room of my office/nature center of my nonprofit. Need to cut an 8" hole in the floor and foundation block to run insulated pex into the park's furnace room to get our outdoor wood boiler installed.
I am guessing I am looking for a a heavy duty hammer drill or a concrete saw. I would think drilling a circular series of holes to make a honeycomb section to knock out would be best. Getting the pex turned into a 90 and ran up through the floor will be tough I bet.
What's your thoughts and expereinces?
I am guessing I am looking for a a heavy duty hammer drill or a concrete saw. I would think drilling a circular series of holes to make a honeycomb section to knock out would be best. Getting the pex turned into a 90 and ran up through the floor will be tough I bet.
What's your thoughts and expereinces?
11
Plumbing / Tight fit for a heat exchanger. Anyone been there?
« on: November 02, 2016, 10:21:21 AM »
Plenum is 13x20. Would prefer a 13x21 actual dimensional exchanger. Looks like my choices are 12x18 (approx 13x20 dimensional frame) or maybe 12x21 (box size not published).
Problem is the outlets are on the end of the long end. I can forget the back. No one will ever be able to fit around the side to do the cutting, let alone the plumbing.
As shown in the pic, the front side has the exhaust pipe right in front of it 2" away. I might be able to get the outlets to match one one each side of the vent but there is no room for the cross pipe to fit as the clearance between the vent and the plenum is only 2" at most.
What should I do?
Problem is the outlets are on the end of the long end. I can forget the back. No one will ever be able to fit around the side to do the cutting, let alone the plumbing.
As shown in the pic, the front side has the exhaust pipe right in front of it 2" away. I might be able to get the outlets to match one one each side of the vent but there is no room for the cross pipe to fit as the clearance between the vent and the plenum is only 2" at most.
What should I do?
12
Equipment / Horizontal/Vertical log splitters
« on: July 10, 2016, 02:20:49 PM »
I have a Speeco 3pt hitch at work (nonprofit). One of my board members is in the market for a new vertical splitter and is thinking of going in on halves with us. I told him you have a range from chinese to USA made commercial grade (Range: Cheap to expensive).
Brands I have seen:
Black Diamond (Big R/Farm & Fleet): Apparently a company owned by an ex-Speeco employee. Price: $1,499 37T/Kohler engine
Ram Splitter
Forest King (TSC): Price: $1,999.99 25T/Kohler engine
American:
Iron & Oak:
Timber Wolf:
Dirty Hand: Lowe's price: $1,399 or $1,898
Swisher: Lowe's
He said he was looking at the $1,200-$1,300 range. I think he is under priced on current market price for a H/V splitter. ($1,500-$2,500).
What would you suggest and estimated Price for long term quality? Maybe even a company that gives nonprofit discount (I get a 5% discount at Lowe's).
Brands I have seen:
Black Diamond (Big R/Farm & Fleet): Apparently a company owned by an ex-Speeco employee. Price: $1,499 37T/Kohler engine
Ram Splitter
Forest King (TSC): Price: $1,999.99 25T/Kohler engine
American:
Iron & Oak:
Timber Wolf:
Dirty Hand: Lowe's price: $1,399 or $1,898
Swisher: Lowe's
He said he was looking at the $1,200-$1,300 range. I think he is under priced on current market price for a H/V splitter. ($1,500-$2,500).
What would you suggest and estimated Price for long term quality? Maybe even a company that gives nonprofit discount (I get a 5% discount at Lowe's).
13
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / My OWB proposed setup
« on: July 07, 2016, 11:00:21 AM »
Been lurking for a few weeks. New to OWB's. Names Mike. Located 1 county south of MLAPPIN.
I am a director of a nonprofit park that purchased a used 3 yr old CL6048 from a county highway dept. The guys just didn't like to maintain their fire I guess. Their loss i my gain (I think lol!)
Both buildings are currently on LP furnaces which will remain as backup.
As a nonprofit, we picked this up to help out our budgets (the nonprofit and mine).
Plan is to heat the nature center/office/restroom part of a building (outlined in white-single story with 12' ceiling in nature center 1,372) and also my residence which is across the parking lot to the east (outlined in white-1,455 sq ft but factor a great room and full basement totaling to bring it to 3,900 sq ft with basement, 2,430 without basement. )
Yes it is a long run to my house but it is what it is as I need to keep it in a convenient area out of public site (maintenance area).
The CB dealer quoted me a 125,000 BTU heat exchanger for the nature center and 140,000 BTU for the house.
Thoughts?
I am a director of a nonprofit park that purchased a used 3 yr old CL6048 from a county highway dept. The guys just didn't like to maintain their fire I guess. Their loss i my gain (I think lol!)
Both buildings are currently on LP furnaces which will remain as backup.
As a nonprofit, we picked this up to help out our budgets (the nonprofit and mine).
Plan is to heat the nature center/office/restroom part of a building (outlined in white-single story with 12' ceiling in nature center 1,372) and also my residence which is across the parking lot to the east (outlined in white-1,455 sq ft but factor a great room and full basement totaling to bring it to 3,900 sq ft with basement, 2,430 without basement. )
Yes it is a long run to my house but it is what it is as I need to keep it in a convenient area out of public site (maintenance area).
The CB dealer quoted me a 125,000 BTU heat exchanger for the nature center and 140,000 BTU for the house.
Thoughts?
14
Equipment / 034 died-Bought a MS362C-M
« on: July 03, 2016, 06:45:51 PM »
034 wouldn't start. Dealer replaced fuel filter, etc and it still wouldn't run. On a hunch he checked and the piston was scored.
He said this is the first 034 he has had go bad. I gave him the saw minus bar and chain so he could use it for parts. Decided to buy a MS362C-M. $599 with my nonprofit discount. So far it seems to be a beast compared to my 034 and does well against my 036. I was hoping for a 3rd saw but will have to settle now.
He said this is the first 034 he has had go bad. I gave him the saw minus bar and chain so he could use it for parts. Decided to buy a MS362C-M. $599 with my nonprofit discount. So far it seems to be a beast compared to my 034 and does well against my 036. I was hoping for a 3rd saw but will have to settle now.
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