Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: jrider on November 28, 2011, 10:38:18 AM
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I recently bought a Portage and Main OWB - the Optimizer 250 (gasification). I would like to know people's thoughts on cleaning out of the ashes and the tubes. Its only been burning for 3 weeks now and things look to be ok at this point, just wanted to hear others thoughts. I hear the tubes are crucial to the gasification running at full efficiency. Is a little buildup ok or should they be perfectly clear?
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You'll need those tubes as clean as possible for maximum efficiency. Any build up insulates it a little bit. So the cleaner the better, as far as how often to clean your stove it greatly depends on the quality of wood your burning and factors like that.
I think martyinmi has the same stove, there good units and I'm sure he'll chime in
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It's not a gasifier, but rather a home built OWB. I pull ashes and punch (jargon for brush) tubes every week.
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Jrider,
Don't think you can clean it too often...many variables. Mild temps make for more creosote build up. I would think wood not seasoned long enough or stored in damp conditions would/could add to this. Some woods leave more of a powder-type ash. I have been burning for mine since sept 15, or so, and went 3 weeks once. 2 weeks seems to be about due most times.
I just don't re-fill in the morning and shut her down for a little while. Heat isn't too bad and no major smoke to worry about.
Overall very pleased with the unit. But, find it difficult to keep burning when mild temps and no use of hotwater. I found 180 off/174 on to be fairly good for these warm temps we've been having here in PA. 1st day of our deer season today and I hunted in a sweat shirt and flag mans vest! No luck.....try again tomorrow.
Bill G
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Thanks for the input. I went 3 weeks but it hasn't been burning much due to the warm weather...south Jersey here. It wasn't too dirty but I could see small fragments of buildup beginning to form in the tubes.
Do you take a shop vac to it once you are done with the brush?
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Old shop vac is sure the tool of choice. Do empty immediately and keep outside after done.
Bill
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Thanks Bill. I emptied it right away and put all ashes - from shop vac and directly from what I pulled out on the bottom into a metal trash can. I was suprised how little ash there was - not much more than a gallon jugs worth. As I said, I haven't burned a ton of wood but what I'm burning isn't the best quality. Its dry just on the rotten and crumbly side. Its all the wood I can't sell to my firewood customers.
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I also have the P&M 250 Gasifier. I empty ashes out of the refractory a couple times a week. I brush the tubes and vacuum the fine ash out from in front of the doors every two weeks. I have never got anymore than fine ash from the tubes.
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Skyking - is your refractory full in that short of a time period? How much ash are you getting out that often?
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Jrider,
Just as Skyking says, I also drag out the small amount of ashes from the bottom chamber every 2-3 days.
Hit 65 deg here in PA today. I did clean it out good and scraped a bit of creosote from firebox. As I said before, I have a tough time keeping a fire in these mild temps. Quite a few times I've just shut the blower off and didn't relight till 7-8pm. Played around with the temp differential and definately can't keep a fire with the recommended 10 deg dif. Even with a long burn coming up from 155 deg water to 180.
I did turn out the top draft screw all the way, and notice no difference. But, when we do get a cold snap, it does stay burning properly.
For the most part, I'm just burning for the DHW at this point. Have all 4 t-stats set at 70 in the house and it stay's constant at that. When,if, winter finally sets in, I think I'll be just fine. Certainly thrilled with the minimal wood consumption up to this point! I don't mind "her" filling up the bath tub every single night.
I'm sure after a full season of use we'll be much closer to "professional status", I hope!!
Bill
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jrider, I don't have a lot of ash in the refractory, it seems to accumulate in front of the nozzle, I didn't know about turning the fire bricks over in the refractory when I fired it up so mine fills up faster. I get just enough ash to fill the little ash pan that came with the stove.
Bill, I've never had a problem keeping a burn with a 10* dif. I have the set point at 180 and a dif set to 9, which gives a 10* dif, so it kicks back on at 170. I have had some problems with condensation (dripping out of doors) but removing the turbulators and increasing the dif to 10 has pretty well eliminated that. Last week the draft damper stuck open, so took the fan cover off to check it out and discovered that there was about 1/2" of moisture in bottom of fan housing. I talked to Rory today and he recommended increasing the dif to 15. I know I don't have enough load on the furnace when it is warm, house is only 2000 sf and well insulated. The fire hasn't went out in the 8 weeks that I've had it lit, with twice a day loading.
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Have you guys had any creosote build up in your vertical transfer tubes that made it difficult to clean them? I built a tool using 2" od thick wall pipe that I sharpened in my lathe, than attached 3' of 1/4" hydraulic to it so I could spin it with by drill. It works like a charm. We've found that lowering the differential to 6 helps with that issue a bunch. Without much of a load in this milder weather and a higher differential, the refractory temperature would get so low that it would take way too long to gasify, then the creosote would build up. We've not had any issues in the last three weeks. We were also getting a little build up in the manifold area, but it was only with the higher differential. All three of ours would actually huff smoke back out of the fan when the differential 10 or more. Sometimes it would take 20 minutes or more to get temperatures back up to the off point. Those problems are gone now.
Marty
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Marty,
Did notice a bit of resistance pushing through vert. tubes. Got through OK, and just push hose from shop vac down to bottom. Don't hear any big chunks being sucked up.
The tool you fabbed up, hydraulic hose is stiff enough to chuck up and turn with a drill? I guess a dumb question as your doing it....
I'll whip one up, of both sizes, as it probably saves on the hands a good bit and does a bang-up job! Good idear!
Been hanging in there with the 6 deg diff setting. As you said, really a 7 deg diff as 174-180. Don't see any condensation, only maybe a little in the front from time to time. Right front, and it makes me think of a small leak??
Have noticed I do need to add perhaps, 2-3 gallon a make up water once every week-10 days or so. Wondering if you all ever had to add any? As stated, I do see a bit of blackish water near right front leg of unit. Fairly sure it's just condesation. Then, again with my luck, maybe I got a problem?
Bill
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Bill, I haven't added any water to mine since I started it.
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Skyking,
Thats what I figured you guys would say.....yep, little bit every now and then. I'm going to have to take a better look up on the right top of the unit. When the guage gets down to 1/4 a the way up, I don't recall seeing the wet concrete. But, from having it go out so often, the guage always fluctuates up and down some. Haven't let the water get below 140 deg or so.
Absolutely no moisture in firebox. Do see some brown rust stains on insulation in front, top right. It appears and feels dry, and I assumed that was from the couple of cold fire-ups. As it did condensate a real lot from cold up to temp.
I did re-check all joints and piping and all is good there. Hoping to be home on Thurs., whilst still light outside for further inspection.
Bill
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I don't really know much about my settings because the guy who installed it took care of everything. I do know its set at 180 with a dif. of 10. I live in south Jersey where temps have been 65-70 last 5 days and fire hasn't gone out once. Nor do I get any dark smoke when it fires up/shuts down. Don't know if something was done right or I am just lucky?? I guess time will tell if I start to develop issues I can't fix.
I think I am getting some creosote in the burn box though...its the black stuff that accumulates on the interior walls and door that peels off like burnt potato chips? Not sure if my wood isn't dry enough, the warm weather, or just something to expect naturally?
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You can expect higher creosote build-up when you are not getting "burns" regularly. As soon as it gets colder and you do get more burns you'll note the smoke is brownish in color. That's the "potato chips" burning.
BTW- Cold front is on the way..... 32 F here this morning in Western PA.
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Thanks Ridgekid. I kind of figured the burnt potato chip thing was natural but is nice to hear from someone else. I will look for that smoke you mentioned but with this gasification burner, I struggle to see any smoke coming out of the stack. In fact I usually listen for the fan to tell if its even burning or not.
Funny thing about the lack of smoke - I only live on an acre and half in a development and my one curious neighbor came over asking about it on the day of install. 2 weeks later when I was stacking wood he came over to ask when I was firing it up. When I told him its been running for the last 2 weeks he looked pleasantly suprised and said he didn't see or smell any smoke at all.
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That's awesome. I love hearing stories like that. :thumbup:
It's the stories about "smokers" in residential neighborhoods that get under my skin. That's when I ask myself "What was that dealer thinking!!"
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Bill-
A tool like I've fabricated won't work on the horizontal tubes as they are a welded construction.
My De Walt drill spun my cutter without an issue.
No one of the three of us have added anything to ours recently. All of our boilers ran over when we first fired them up- both times(mid Oct. then again late Oct.)
We've all bumped our set points up to 185 or higher(the exception being last night-read below). These machines seem to like to work hard and hot.
jrider-
My neighbor across the road came over during the first week of November and asked when I would fire up my "new toy". I told him to listen for the fan, and that it had been running already for close to a month. He said "I thought I seen heat waves or something, but I figured it was an optical illusion".
Skyking-
I lowered my set point to 175* and raised my differential to 15 last night around 9:00 for an experiment. Ended up being late for work by a few minutes because fire nearly went out. Temperature was down to 144* at 6:00 am. Took me 35 minutes to get it to gasify again. My set point is now 190* and my differential is back to 6. That extra expansion and contraction of the metal cannot be good for it with such a big differential, especially if it appears to contribute to fires going out. I'll be talking to Rory tomorrow or Friday(cracked firebrick in doors) and I'll give him my report.
Have you guys sent in your water samples yet? Ours all came back low. We've adjusted and are sending new ones in the next few days.
Marty
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Marty,
Thanks for your informitive reply. It's cooler the last few days, and I've kept a fire for 48 hrs w/4 fillings. Not full, but 6-8 splits added.
I don't believe I'm working it hard enough during daytime, and that's my troubles. House is only 11 yrs old and very well built/insul.
I added water to get gauge to top and 3 days gone by and we're registering in the middle. But, see zero on concrete slab this time around. When it was the coldest morning, I did see a bit of steam vaporizing above guage, and wonder if maybe that is where I may be losing a bit? I would think 2-3 minutes a running my fill line can't be adding a great deal a water?? Still hoping against hope that there isn't a problem. But, then again, with my luck there is a problem somewhere.
Just haven't found the time to get into it yet. And I NEED to get that water sample sent out SOON.
If you guys never added a drop a h2o, mine is going somewhere. Better not be an underground event, as that logstor stuff appears Grade A. Certainly didn't drop any boulders or harm it in any way during install.
I'll be hunting deer next 3 days, so it all goes to back burner....s*****w it!
Bill
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Bill, I noticed when I filled mine that the dif. between low level line and upper fill line is only 2 or 3 gallons. You might not have a problem. Mine is down a little bit, but not enough to add. Boyd
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Boyd,
Noticed that also, that just a minute or 2 and we're right back up there. Quite possibly evaporation. Seeing as it is still "new", I suppose just over-analizing. (how's that for spelling???)
Glad to have feed-back from you gents, as it puts me at ease some.
Mr. Jrider, sorry to have hi-jacked your thread! We all got a good chunk of change tied up in these units/systems and it don't take much to over react. Hope all is well in your neck a the woods.
Bill