Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: CountryBoyJohn on June 17, 2013, 11:01:49 AM
-
Greetings all! I am well into the process of getting set up with an outdoor wood boiler. I have been in the process for almost 8 months now. It has been quite a journey so far and I still have quite a ways to go. I enjoy sharing my story with others. I decided I should post it here as well in the hopes that someone else may benefit from it.
I purchased my house (home details to come later) in May of 2012 and was told my yearly average for my all electric utility bills was $300 per month. That turned out to be a lie. My electric bill was $720 for December. My January bill would've been higher, but we abandoned upstairs and completely shut it down. Seeing the unaffordable situation I was in, I began researching alternatives. I ruled out Geotherm as I didn't have $25,000 sitting around, nor did I have the equity to finance it. I had heard about outdoor wood boilers and began researching. Much of that research included some of you on this site! So, in December, I bought a Stihl MS290 Farm Boss and began cutting wood.
As many of you know, there are quite a few type of boilers out there. After being overwhelmed with choices, I jotted down all the different features found in OWB's and ranked them in priority. I decided I wanted a forced air furnace, I wanted stainless steel, I wanted affordability, and I wanted a conventional style. My house is 3700 sft of living space, 900 sft of garage space, a hot tub, an 18'x36' inground pool. This space is heated with 3 resistance electric furnaces and 2 electric water heaters. My insulation is terrible and windows are non-insulated.
In May, I expanded my wood storage area with 10 tons of gravel. I felt that the gravel will allow water to drain away and give me a good surface to work on and stack. I got the gravel spread out and now I have enough room to store as much as 15 cords if I wanted to. I am currently up to about 8 cords on my way to 10 before heating season starts up. I live in southwestern Indiana, and based on my research, I am anticipating using between 5 and 7 cords.
Last week I ordered my stove. I got the Heatmaster MF10,000E. This stove fit all my criteria in what I was looking for, and met the criteria for the state of Indiana. Indiana is an EPA Phase II state, but they allow conventional stoves that generate 350,000 BTU. My demand was such that I needed that type of stove. My stove will be arriving at the end of this month!
My design is a bit different that anything I have found on this site, so I am going to share. I have a main house area that consists of nearly 3,000 sft and a semi-detached garage that includes a bonus room above it. My stove will be located at the "ground" level behind my garage. I can't get into the main part of the house at ground level, so my supply/return lines will have to go up and down as much as 10'. I have attached a plan view PDF and a profile view PDF that shows all this in detail. My demand is also so high, that I thought it best to run 2 circuits and split the load demand as evenly as possible. My upstairs furnace and downstairs furnace will be on separate circuits. My hot tub and pool exchangers will be on separate circuits, so on and so forth. Spreading the load on 2 circuits will allow me to keep my temps up and not have items at the end of the circuit starving for heat.
That is my story so far. I plan on updating and loading more pictures as everything progresses. If you veterans have any comments or suggestions, feel free to PM, e-mail or post. Newbies with questions, feel free to do the same.
Thanks!
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
Everything looks great! Its nice to see a plan come together! This will be the first winter you look forward to and the last one you dread!
-
You will love the stove but you will love the money that it will be saving you!!! Made a awesome choice in stoves the 10000E works great. Will supple you with all the heat you will need.
-
Well, another step down! I got my stove delivered last night! It is in a temporary resting place until I can get my pad poured.
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
I must say that's a good looking stove :thumbup:
:pic:
-
Nothing like a good hoe, mines a 96 cat 416 b with extendahoe and stump bucket, I made up a set of forks that attatch to the three hooks on the top of the bucket and can hook up my nine foot fisher quikswitch municipal blade for really easy snow removal in five minutes. very versatile machines. Oh and nice stove, good luck with your project, burn wood it's good for us all !
-
Thanks guys! The height was all she could handle. Boom extended, both arms stretched out, barely got it 3" off the truck bed. I borrowed it from a neighbor down the road. The rest of my equipment arrives next week!
-
How heavy is the stove, I can't reach high enough for the upper deck on a step deck trailer to pick our units with the weight so I had to build a ramp out front to unload our units and then I deliver them from here.I just got a load yesterday and placed them on my frontage for display, it was looking pretty bare down there but yesterdays load solved that issue.
-
I think the stove I got was 2,200 pounds. Quite a bit lighter than other models because it is stainless steel.
-
Yeah it is lighter, my mainstay is 3100 pounds dry weight. we don't use stainless, some companies have had good luck with it, some not so good, I personnally prefer, 1/4 inch plate, I can weld it myself if need be, anyway good luck on your install if you need any advice on plumbing or electrical just give a shout out as one of us will certainly help, pictures help a lot to understand your project.
-
The MF10,000e is a very good furnace and I'm sure you are going to enjoy it. Let me know if I can help with anything, I work with Heatmaster furnaces every day.
-
Well, I finally started installing my system. First item of business was my first of 3 water to air heat exchangers. This one had to go under my main house furnace. It took 2 of us 2.5 hours to get wrestled in. I built a frame out of 2x6 lumber and "housed" the exchanger in it so it won't have to bear any weight. I was lucky to have enough slack in my coolant line to be able to raise the furnace the 6" required to get the new frame and exchanger in. Otherwise, I would've had to call in a pro to extend and refill my coolant line. My upstairs exchanger should be easier, as I will be able to insert it into the duct work right after the furnace.
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
Got my second exchanger installed last night. First time for doing sheet metal work. Only cut myself once. And it was more like a scratch. This is the highest point in my circuit and the farthest from my stove. Should I put some kind of a air release valve on my supply line just before the exchanger? Also, I hope it will be ok installed vertically like this. I have never seen anyone do it like this before.
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
Things are looking good, glad your taking the time to do things right!
Looking forward to hearing how you like the 10,000E. They are definitely a beast of a stove, I love them
-
Looking good J.P! Wish we lived closer so I could come down to help out with it but it looks like you are doing a great job with the install! Knowing you I have no doubt you've done your research! ;)
-
Well, made some more progress this weekend with some help from my dad. Running stiff, right out of the box, coiled up pex is definitely a two-man job. Had to install a rigid PVC pipe to "span" the attic in the breezeway between the house and garage to help feed the pex through. Ended up working out very well. Got the rough-in for my downstairs furnace connection and got the upstairs furnace hooked up. I also got the foundation blocks set and got the stove moved to its final resting place!
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
Another very productive weekend. Got all my external connections done, minus a few wire nuts for electric. This portion of the install had me the most anxious. My stove is close enough to my garage that I don't need to go underground. I was trying to figure out how to get 4 lines into my garage, above ground! I had seen a couple ideas here on the site, but I wanted something a little more weather tight. Well, here is what I came up with. I wrap each pex line in cellular foam insulation. I think you guys on here call it frost king. Then, I zip tied all 4 lines together and fed it through a 6" PVC corrugated pipe. It worked BEAUTIFULLY! My other concern was getting the PVC into the garage and be weather proof. For this, I got a plastic roof flange that is sized for a 4" pipe and cut it back until I could just barely fit my pvc through it. Again, beautiful! Add a little foam and silicone, and we're in business! I also ran my wire from the garage to the unit for power.
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
A few more pictures.
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
Well, I had a couple setbacks. My first problem was trying to apply pressurized plumbing principles to a pump driven return/supply setup that most of our stoves are set up to run on. Putting a TEE in your supply and a TEE in your return is evidently, not the way to go! I found out that all of the components serviced by your circuit must be plumbed in series. Your supply run must feed through each item, one after the other. The first picture I have attached is how NOT to do it. The second picture is the correct way to do it. I have the valves set up so I can bypass this unit in the summertime, if I only want to heat my water or if i need to service that unit.
I also hooked my water heater up to my plate exchanger. Had a couple leaks on my threaded fittings. I returned the fittings and got a different style. We'll find out this week if it was the fittings or just a rookie wannabe plumber mistake! I keep thinking I'm going to need to fire it up soon, but the forecasters keep raising the highs and lows right when I'm about to fire it up! Come on winter already!!
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
Got the stove and lines filled with water. Got the water treatment added. Air out of the pumps. Electricity turned on with no zzzzttt sounds. Got the pumps running to mix up the treatment. No leaks!!! Watching the weather. I'm having some family over on Sunday (Oct. 13) to fire it up!! So pumped! Probably could've used some heat this morning. Upper 40's outside. With our terrible insulation in the house I think we dipped below 70. Should be ok this week with highs in the upper 70's. I think 80's are officially done here in SW Indiana. Still don't have my hot tub hooked up. Wanted to get the house ready first.
Thank you all for your help in this endeavor! Scott, RSI, slimjim, yoder, kybaseball, I know I'm missing some. I can't imagine doing my install by myself without all the information I got off of this site. Thank you all for sticking with this site and making free heat more attainable for guys like me.
-
Way to go. Country boy john
..great post...im a few weeks behind you I have the pipe in the ground and have hooked up the 20 plate heat exchanger that I ordered from Scott77. on the forum here.....250 ft of 3 wrap and exhcanger was in my drive less than 48 hrs after ordering...how cool is thart? and have the furnace plenium cut out to put the water to air exchanger in. Im like you I cant wait for it all to come together. will pu my stove end of oct. (thats not because Im waiting on Scott, I wont have all the money till then.) but again congradulations.chilly
-
Got the stove and lines filled with water. Got the water treatment added. Air out of the pumps. Electricity turned on with no zzzzttt sounds. Got the pumps running to mix up the treatment. No leaks!!! Watching the weather. I'm having some family over on Sunday (Oct. 13) to fire it up!! So pumped! Probably could've used some heat this morning. Upper 40's outside. With our terrible insulation in the house I think we dipped below 70. Should be ok this week with highs in the upper 70's. I think 80's are officially done here in SW Indiana. Still don't have my hot tub hooked up. Wanted to get the house ready first.
Thank you all for your help in this endeavor! Scott, RSI, slimjim, yoder, kybaseball, I know I'm missing some. I can't imagine doing my install by myself without all the information I got off of this site. Thank you all for sticking with this site and making free heat more attainable for guys like me.
Can't wait til you get this beast up and running.. Did u get the envelope I sent ya yet?!
-
Got it! Thanks Scott! Sunday is the big day!
Thanks Chilli! I was the same way with funding. Had to limp along and get pieces done as I could afford it. This winter will be like no other! WARM!!
-
Welp, fired her up on Sunday!! Man that felt good! I started the fire by lighting my $720 electric bill from last December! Haven't had much of a load on it because it's been in the mid-70's so far this week. But, I turned off my water heater and have been enjoying the "free" hot water! Tonight it starts to get cooler. Highs in the 60's. Yes, my house is so poorly insulated, I need the heat on if one night drops into the low 60's. Finally got a good coal bed going. Fires right up each time now. Didn't really have to relight it but once. All i did that time was throw in a piece of paper and light it. I may have jumped the gun a bit by lighting it on Sunday, but I had 2 days off to watch it and nurse it along the initial startup. And I couldn't bring myself to use the electric furnace even once.
I tell you what, I was SHOCKED at how little smoke there is!! I was literally laughing at how little smoke there was!! It was amazing! When the fan is firing, all you get it a heat signature. The only time there is smoke is when it's idle, and all that is, is little wisps that get drawn out by the breeze. Then obviously when it first fires, it pushes all that smoldering smoke out, but it dissipates in about 60 seconds or so.
Lot's of happy burning ahead for this guy!!
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
I'm glad you got her up and going. It's nice not worrying about the gas or electric bills during winter.
I lit mine Saturday just to check and make sure she was alive. As my wife say the second woman
in our relationship is ready for winter!! I turned on the floor heat Sat night and it ran us out of the house Sunday.
-
Welp, fired her up on Sunday!! Man that felt good! I started the fire by lighting my $720 electric bill from last December! Haven't had much of a load on it because it's been in the mid-70's so far this week. But, I turned off my water heater and have been enjoying the "free" hot water! Tonight it starts to get cooler. Highs in the 60's. Yes, my house is so poorly insulated, I need the heat on if one night drops into the low 60's. Finally got a good coal bed going. Fires right up each time now. Didn't really have to relight it but once. All i did that time was throw in a piece of paper and light it. I may have jumped the gun a bit by lighting it on Sunday, but I had 2 days off to watch it and nurse it along the initial startup. And I couldn't bring myself to use the electric furnace even once.
I tell you what, I was SHOCKED at how little smoke there is!! I was literally laughing at how little smoke there was!! It was amazing! When the fan is firing, all you get it a heat signature. The only time there is smoke is when it's idle, and all that is, is little wisps that get drawn out by the breeze. Then obviously when it first fires, it pushes all that smoldering smoke out, but it dissipates in about 60 seconds or so.
Lot's of happy burning ahead for this guy!!
.
Sounds good, see what I'm saying about proper wood and how these stoves especially the e series produce such little smoke?! People literally accuse me of not running mine because they don't see smoke, they'll see a hardy down the road smoking up the whole holler and mention it as why they know mines not working, so down to the house we walk to prove it to them lol
-
Enjoy the warmth. I'm like Scott; I've been accused of not having mine running due to the lack of smoke. I've had my neighbor in my basement. The temp guage in the feed line read 190 degrees and he still didn't believe me so he grabbed the pex from the OWB and he let go rather quickly.
-
...I started the fire by lighting my $720 electric bill from last December!...
Hahahahaha...that's awesome, congrats! :thumbup:
-
My stove journey has also taken me to the 10,000e and scott has been kind enough to walk me through the process. I hope to be picking it up soon and look forward to firing up that beast. How cool to start the fire with a $720 heating bill! :thumbup:
-
Thanks guys!!
Well, I had my first experience (experiences) with the all famed "learning curve" this week. My first full week of burning had its highs and lows (no pun intended.) I had a boil over on Tuesday. Not sure what happened. No doors open, no leaks. Only thing I can think of is the damper got hung up or something. Then, Saturday night the fire went out. I burned completely through my last fill Saturday evening before I went to bed. I loaded with a bunch of big chunks and the coals couldn't get them going. Woke up to cool air in registers. Water temp was 88. Too little coals and too big of chunks. So, I spend Sunday nursing my fire back up and getting everything ready again. I'm ready for some real loads on the thing so I don't have to worry about it as much. This week should be cooler. I'm taking the kids out of town for the weekend and my wife will be home to tend to it herself!! WISH ME LUCK!! OR HER!! :-\
-
Made a lot of progress on the hot tub hook up. Been a work in progress for about 2 weeks now! WAY too many trips to the hardware store for fittings. I ended up running a very similar setup on my pex from the garage to the tub. It's about 15' this time with 2 - 1" pex lines in a 4" corrugated pvc pipe. I used the same 4" roof vent flashing. This time it went much faster! It's a whole lot easier doing 2 pex in a 4" line than 4 pex in a 6". Only things left are the pex connections to my main line and the pex connections at the hot tub. I may have to run new electric so I can leave my 220 box for the tub alone. I'm waiting for 1" pex cinch rings. Apparently, my town of 18,000 people doesn't have enough 1" rings to supply 1 stove install! I've bought everyone out! And I started with 50 from online!
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
You're going to like your tub with OWB heat John, soaked for a while this morning in mine. The temperature regulation is not quite as precise as electric on mine but still within a couple degrees, have been experimenting to keep it a little closer.
One caution, you may already know but 104 is as high as tubs are programmed to run because of threat of hyperthermia, once you have the boiler running it you can really let it fly if you wish, be careful if you have others especially kids and expose them to high temps for an extended amount of time.
-
Got my first bill after a full month of running the stove. Not quite what I thought it was going to be. Last year, same bill cycle my electric was $283 and 2594 kwh. This year it is $140 with 1122 kwh. Last month my bill was $112. My "new" electrical components added more power than I was expecting. I guess 2 furnace blowers, 2 pumps, and a stove fan draw more power than I was expecting.
Hot tub is hooked up, filled, and fully operational! Man, that was a pain! I think I spent an entire month hooking that darn thing up. I hope it pays off! It didn't quite hook up like I was expecting. I ended up having to disconnect the hot tub heating element, because it wouldn't run the primary pump unless it was calling for heat. So, I have my "stove" thermostat set at 102 with a 2 degree swing and my hot tub set to 102. That way the pump will cycle through the exchanger when the stove thermostat is calling for heat.
-
I received my second bill yesterday. I tell you what, I get a little excited when it gets close to this time of the month! Anxiously waiting for my electric bill to see how much I saved over last year. Last year: 4,000 KWH, 129 KWH/day, $420 This year: 1,254 KWH, 42 KWH/day, $153. Last month was $140 and I started up a hot tub pump that runs pretty much 24/7. Also, i bumped up my stove temp from 175 to 185. I think that made my recovery time in the house quicker, which made up for the more times it had to run because it was so firggin cold this month! I seriously think that $150 is going to be my winter average.
-
Sounds like you're having fun! :)
One suggestion is to box in and insulate your lines from the stove to the house.
-
Mr. Dragfluid, the lines from the stove are insulated with the grey pipe insulation and they are all 4 zip tied together. I have considered drilling holes in the bottom and injecting expanda-foam insulation to increase the insulated value, but I don't think the benefit and heat loss prevention will outweigh the risks of water penetration with the drilled holes, even if I silicone the openings. I actually have snow that sits on the PVC for a few hours before it finally melts off. Additionally, it's 8'. I doubt I really loose enough heat to justify any additional insulation. Thanks for the input!
-
beyond hate my heatmor furnace had my unit 2 months nothing but problems 3 parts replaces constantly over heats customer service is null
-
beyond hate my heatmor furnace had my unit 2 months nothing but problems 3 parts replaces constantly over heats customer service is null
Heatmor or Heatmaster? 2 different companies
-
I uploaded a short video of my first go at coal. I'm working on uploading another video of my whole setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZKLZMgLYLw&feature=em-upload_owner (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZKLZMgLYLw&feature=em-upload_owner)
-
Nice vid, keep them coming, put em in heatmaster section as well
-
I need some help again....
I have constant water overflow coming from the flue does anyone know why????
Also I am having water flow issue the pumps are getting hot
-
It's Richard, Do you still have my number?
-
No
-
If water it coming out the overflow and boiler losing temp then it is most likely a failed DHW exchanger. (sidearm or plate depending on what you have)
If you have a valve to shut off the water supply to the heat exchanger, that would stop the water from coming out.
-
Roxanne I'll give you a call later today, if I recall RSI she had a sidearm and good call on the domestic!
-
I'm somewhat confused on the hot pumps. Are they circulating cold water over the summer with no fire and getting hot? Mine always are hot when the fire is going, almost to hot to touch them.