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[coolidge]

I only get the condensation when first starting in the fall, then it goes away. I did talk to Brian at a show he was at and he wants our input too make these boilers better.i like the new design in the back firetube doors. I have the older style and its a pain too clean the 2" tubes.  What are you guys running for stack temps? I took all my turbulators out. Running around 375. Lost a blower last year,dealer brought it too my house that night, have a spare now. Been trying to tighten up the loading door and the reaction chamber door, no luck at stopping the smoke. Speaking of smoke, does anyone have there boilers in a shed? I built one around mine and the thing fills the shed full of smoke. Going to build a hood too pipe it out.

[Crazee Canuck]

I have mine inside a lean to on the side of my shop. it to fills with smoke i just open the doors and the wind takes care of the rest.
so far so good nice and warm in the house toasty in the shop. very impressed less work than running two wood stoves, and my shop is always warm, no condensation on my stuff.  and i can`t belive there is hardly any smoke coming out the chimney, my nieghbours didn`t even know i put an OWB until i told them last week. and been running since october.

[coolidge]

Anyone have there OP 250 hooked in with storage? I have mine hooked up too 330 extra gallons. debating on if its a good idea or not. House is warm, guess its good. What are you guys running your diff at, i just changed mine too 15, trying to get a better coal bed.

[martyinmi]

Wow, almost 600 gallons of storage. That's huge! Are you having trouble with it gasifing when your system calls for heat? You should not see anything but steam from your exhaust after the first 30 seconds or so. I've found that if I go more than 3-3 1/2 hours without a cycle the refractory cools down enough to where it won't gasify immediately. Sometimes it would take 20-30 minutes to achieve full gasification again. When it smoked, I ended up with creosote deposits in the heat exchange tubes. If I were you, I think I'd make sure that you are cycling at least once every 1-2 hours. I set my differential at 4 or 5 in this moderate weather, and when(or if) it ever gets cold, I'll bump it up to 9 or 10. I'll be surprised if you can maintain a fire with a 15* differential and all that extra storage. I'd make sure your boiler temperature doesn't go below 140* very often or you will risk early boiler failure. I'm currently running my temps at 190* on and 195* off and it seems to really like it there.
   The only time I'd consider adding extra storage would be if it were mass storage- like 1000 gallons or more-where you might get away with building a fire once every day or every other day, and even then, I wouldn't use an open system like the 250 has. That's where the European systems really shine.
   There are three of us running 250's in this area, and we've found that if we use gravel shovels and take 3 or 4 scoops of fine ash from the bottom every 2-3 days, we have zero issues with our coal bed depth. It takes care of itself.
  Welcome to this site- and the P&M family.

[Bill G]

Marty,

      Played around with the dif thinking longer/cleaner burn times.  Went to 185/176.  Worked great provided ambient temps stayed under 40 deg.  Otherwise, out fire.  Screwy weather here in PA!  Suppose to get cold again shortly.  Probably going to go back to 185/180.

      Had to add couple gal a water after 10 days, but you know all about that.  Repair to come at spring shutdown.

      I guess if we were trying to heat a very large area, extra water storage would be a good thing.  But, would only slow down burn times and cause problems for the average size house.

     Plenty of rain here today....no need to shovel!! 

[dswogger]

Im looking to buy  an ML30  p&m.. anyone have one? If so can I get some feedback !

[coolidge]

There is no problem with it cycling, usually at least twice an hour and of course more when it gets colder. The boiler water cant go below 140 because of the way its set up. The boiler pumps to the storage tank and if nothing is needing heat the water is sent back  to the boiler from the tank. Its a messed up setup. I dont think the guy that hooked it up had done storage before. Also the tank was plumbed in before the 250 was purchased, had an old MB55 hooked to it. We use more hot water hear than the rest of the town so the water heater is more storage and that calls for heat ALOT.

[Bill G]

Coolidge,

     I should clarify "burn time", I mean the furnace would sit idle for a very long time, and fire would most likely go out. 

     That has been/ was my early on problem with my furnace, but find if I tighten up the differential during moderate temps she keeps a fire.

     What exactly are you heating that requires that much hot water storage? 

[coolidge]

Bill,

     I too had the problem of the fire going out but didnt have too worry in the shoulder season because of the storage. I just heat the house (3200 sq ft thats basement also) and hot water with the boiler, i had the boiler hooked  in because i had it already in place. Just wondering if it would be more beneficial to unhook the storage.

[martyinmi]

coolige,
   If you're cycling every half hour, you do not have an issue, other than going through a lot of wood. If you lower your temperature 15* in a half hour, I think the BTU math would be: 250+330=580Gals. 580x8.3 lbs=4814 lbs. You will raise the temperature of that 4814 lbs up twice in one hour,so: 4814x2=9628. 9628x15*=144420 BTU's/hour. 144420x24 hours=3,466,080/day. Well seasoned wood @ 20% moisture will have about 6200 BTU's/lb. available after the moisture is boiled out, and if your boiler is 80% efficient, you'll end up with about 5000 available BTU's/pound. So: 3,466,080divided by 5000=693 lbs./wood/day. That's about a full cord/week of good hardwood. I suspect your storage system is not functioning properly, or even at all. Either that or my math is waaaay off- and sometimes that tends to be the rule, and not the exception! Willie and RSI are much better at figuring thermal equations than I am. They will do some figuring and put me in my place. I need to go and pick up my son now,so I'll check in later.

   Marty

[woodman]

I agree something does not sound right at all to be cycling through 600+ plus gallons of storage twice an hour. I question if the boiler would even be able to reheat that much in 30 minutes. 

[willieG]

it is said here in ontario canada the average home uses about 100,000,000 btu per heating season i would guess you will be 3 to 4 times that...whew! you must be heating a big area or you are losing a lot of heat elsewhere?

[martyinmi]

willie,
   Is my math close? Took a hvac class at the local community college almost 31 years ago, but I remember very little of what I learned.

[willieG]

willie,
   Is my math close? Took a hvac class at the local community college almost 31 years ago, but I remember very little of what I learned.

seems right to me but didn't i also read that ridge (i think it is him) that was timing his burns and was only at around 7 or 8 a day (in this mild weahter) so twice and hor seems like a lot of burns (depending on what is being heated)

[Bill G]

Coolidge,

       My house is 2800 sqft excluding basement.  The basement does stay very comfortable w/just the heat exchanger and plumbing.  I am sure this brings me a bit past 3200 sqft.  Even during the past cold snap, my owb blower came on maybe once every 2 hrs.  Easily got by on the normal 2 loadings per day.  Loaded to a it over half way with seasoned oak.  I guess something don't sound quite right w/your set-up.

      You must be going through the 1/2 a forest this year??  Do you have valves/piping to isolate that giant storage unit and just work off the OWB?  I can only guess more of your usable heat is going directly to keeping storage up, than is being used in the house? 

      Interesting to hear the final verdict on your situation.  Have heard and had very minor toubles along the new OWB journey, but have never heard anyone of us burning an P&M furnace ever say they didn't generate enough heat!  Keep in touch....