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yes

14 (56%)

no

11 (44%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[woodman]

I am not sure extra storage is going to be the answer here. Storage works best when you have the ability to heat using low water temps (110-120ish)ie. radient floor, the newer fin tube base board. The ability to go down this low allows you to pack a lot more usable btu's into the given amount of storage. For example if your system requires water temps of at least 160 to heat, and you can only bring your storage up to 180, you only have a difference of 20 degrees. In a 1000 gallon storage that is only 160,000 stored btu's. Now if you could continue to heat all the way down to 110 you could store 560,000 btu's in that same 1000 gallon tank.

It sounds like Schavis has a large heat load. With out knowing what it is we are all just guessing. Schavis, please explain your system, (forced air??, base board??). What are your normal winter temps? How old, large and insulated is your home? What did you heat with before and how much fuel did you use in a heating season. Sounds like you live in town so you had to go with a gasser. 

[Schavis]

Gasser is required by Law in Maryland...
We heat a 2200 sft house built in 1908 with virtually no insulation and original windows which have storm windows in place.  There are 10 rooms with 10 large tube style radiators from about when the house was first built.  Our heat source before OWF was a newer oil boiler, burning just over 1100 gal in a heating season.
The GX10 is CERTAINLY INADEQUATE TO HEAT OUR HOUSE.  Hawken calculated it to be good. After research, I really did find that sft alone is really not the way to calculate a load... duh! should have known that, but we trusted the experts... well Hawken is NOT an EXPERT, nor do they stand behind their guarantees..
We are now considering replacing the Hawken (only a few months old) with a Central Boiler E Classic 2400.  Looks like the correct BTU and sizing... the bummer is that we now have to redo it all. and in the middle of winter...
Your feedback on this is appreciated.

[woodman]

Gasser is required by Law in Maryland...
We heat a 2200 sft house built in 1908 with virtually no insulation and original windows which have storm windows in place.  There are 10 rooms with 10 large tube style radiators from about when the house was first built.  Our heat source before OWF was a newer oil boiler, burning just over 1100 gal in a heating season.
The GX10 is CERTAINLY INADEQUATE TO HEAT OUR HOUSE.  Hawken calculated it to be good. After research, I really did find that sft alone is really not the way to calculate a load... duh! should have known that, but we trusted the experts... well Hawken is NOT an EXPERT, nor do they stand behind their guarantees..
We are now considering replacing the Hawken (only a few months old) with a Central Boiler E Classic 2400.  Looks like the correct BTU and sizing... the bummer is that we now have to redo it all. and in the middle of winter...
Your feedback on this is appreciated.

Don't make any rash decisions yet, it seems like if you were only using 1100 gallons of fuel oil before, the gx 10 should work. I am no expert by any means but I will share what I think I know. A gallon of fuel oil is 140,000 btu's. A newer fuel oil boiler is probably 80% effecient. 1100*140,000=154,000,000. 154,000,000*0.80=123,200,000 per heating season. 180 days in the heating season 123,200,000/180=684,444btu's per day. 684,444/24=28,518 btu's/hour. EPA burnwise table has the gx10 rated at 78,000btu's/hour for 8 hours.

On paper, that gx10 should work.....all that said, this winter has been very cold so far. With temps below 0 along with a stiff breeze I would guess your homes btu requirements could very well  be 4-5 times its average requirements, which would get you down to that 6-7 hour burn time.

Has the hawken been keeping up this past week or so during more "normal" temps? Are you 100% sure your wood is seasoned?  Do you plan on improving the insulation and windows in your home?

[hondaracer2oo4]

Lots of factors with OWBs as far as burn times. The system must be designed correctly to supply the house with the house. Woodman I think is right on with his thinking and questions. How did the oil boiler make out with the current heat layout in the house? Did it keep everything up to temp where you wanted it? If so and the calcs are correct you have a problem with the delivery system from the OWB. Could you give us the temp readings of the pex lines from and to boiler when it leaves the boiler and when it returns as well as the temps across the water to water heat exchanger when it enters and exits on the owb side. Also the temps of the water to water hx on the house side. You should take these readings at a few different points. One when nothing is calling for heat in the house, two when half the zones are calling for heat and three when all zones are calling. Thanks.

[Schavis]

@woodman... yes, it has been cold this winter, but when it is really cold, like in the single digits, our burn time is 3-4 hours ... A few weeks ago, I pretty much didn't do anything more than fill the furnace and take naps....
Yes, the wood is good and seasoned....
During these more normal temps... meaning up in the 40's during the day and below freezing at night, we have gotten up to 9 hours or burn time...  I don't think that is really keeping up with heating needs... The only time we ever get a good burn time is when it is over 55 during the day and only in the upper 30's at night. 
The delivery system in the house (the cast iron pipes and radiators) have been providing heat just fine for almost 100 years with all sorts of different furnaces.  While many say the old radiators are inefficient, they deliver good heat and do the job well when there is hot water to be had... but the Hawken just can't keep up...
We have added triple track storms to the windows, and they help keep the house warmer, but no other plans to improve insulation, just WAY too costly and not practical due to the layout and construction of the house.

Thanks for your comments...  Gotta go out and fill the furnace now.

[hondaracer2oo4]

Shavis, we would like to help. I think something is wrong with the delivery system from the owb to the home. Could you give us the temps thAt I was looking for in my previous post. I think we may see a glaring problem there. 

[woodman]

@woodman... yes, it has been cold this winter, but when it is really cold, like in the single digits, our burn time is 3-4 hours ... A few weeks ago, I pretty much didn't do anything more than fill the furnace and take naps....
Yes, the wood is good and seasoned....
During these more normal temps... meaning up in the 40's during the day and below freezing at night, we have gotten up to 9 hours or burn time...  I don't think that is really keeping up with heating needs... The only time we ever get a good burn time is when it is over 55 during the day and only in the upper 30's at night. 
The delivery system in the house (the cast iron pipes and radiators) have been providing heat just fine for almost 100 years with all sorts of different furnaces.  While many say the old radiators are inefficient, they deliver good heat and do the job well when there is hot water to be had... but the Hawken just can't keep up...
We have added triple track storms to the windows, and they help keep the house warmer, but no other plans to improve insulation, just WAY too costly and not practical due to the layout and construction of the house.

Thanks for your comments...  Gotta go out and fill the furnace now.

Something doesn't add up here. Without the temp readings honda is asking for, we are again just guessing. With what you have told us so far, and not being able to see your set up, I would question the obvious. 1) Is your wood really around 20%? 2)What did you use for underground pipe and is it losing heat to the water table? Also if you could explain how you have your setup plumbed inside.

[CountryBoyJohn]

Come on guys!  His wood is seasoned!!  He's said that at least twice now!  Besides, damp wood is not going to cause these drastic burn times!  Move on!

[woodman]

Come on guys!  His wood is seasoned!!  He's said that at least twice now!  Besides, damp wood is not going to cause these drastic burn times!  Move on!

In a gasser? Are you serious?

[slimjim]

Actually woodman a little green wood in our gasser is not a bad thing at all as long as there is load enough on the unit, it creates less charcoal and allows for better air flow.

[woodman]

Actually woodman a little green wood in our gasser is not a bad thing at all as long as there is load enough on the unit, it creates less charcoal and allows for better air flow.

I did not know that. I thought the gassers were very temperamental to mc and would not fire correctly if it got above a certain point.

[hondaracer2oo4]

Hopefully he can get us those numbers and we can figure out where the system needs to be fixed.

[Schavis]

@hondaracer2oo4 and @ woodman   It is snowing big time outside and we have a bunch of wind... so the temps are for when the zones are calling for heat... BRRR wicked cold out right now.. so this is what I got for ya.   Water jacket temp reads 172 on the front of the unit.  The supply line on back of furnace measures out to be about 165 and the return line 139.  Inside the basement about 75 feet or so the lines measure 163 and 137. 
The lines across the plate exchanger measure 165 135 on the Furnace side and 137 121 on the house water side. 
Air temp inside the house is 68
Is this what you needed to maybe help?  Did I miss anything?

[hondaracer2oo4]

Ok, To start off what is your aquastat set outside at? Most of us run 185 off and 175 on in cold temps, you look to be way below that. It looks like your plate exchanger may be to small. What size is it? Someone that runs a plate exchanger should be able to chime in and let us know what the proper temp rise across a water to water heat exchanger should be. Your Delta t looks OK but I suspect you need a  bigger plate exchanger to get your temps up much closer to the boiler temps which means that you will also want to move the water faster so that you keep around a 20 degree drop on the owb side. Im not surprised that you can't keep the house warm with 137 degree temps on the house side. It doesn't look to be the boilers fault it looks like something in your delivery system is no sufficient.

[Schavis]

@hondaracer2oo4 The plate exchanger is the one that Hawken sold us with the unit.. they just call it a High Capacity Plate Type Heat Exchanger and it cost $425 there are a load of plates in it, and I know it is heavy.  The installer put a strap across where the words are on it so I can't read it.  The entire unit, piping, etc was installed by Hawken.  You think they would have done it right?  Also, the instruction manual that Hawken provided me with tells you "Don not alter the settings on your Digital Temperature Controller" so I don't even know what they are, and they have been absolutely no help to me at all.