Print

[EE Farm Boy]

Well, as luck would have it...I am second guessing myself on the size of the P&M I went for.  I have the 28-44 and I work this boiler to death...it burns hot constantly when the temps get below 20 degrees.  I can get a good 8-10 hour burn if the temps are 20 degrees or so if I pack it completely full.  Now, that the temp here in NC is below 10, I am lucky to get 6 hours...which means filling the heater in the night which sucks with a capital S.  Now I admit, we probably only have 4 or 5 nights a year that it gets that low so I can't complain but I am kicking myself for not buying the 3444  as the price difference is not what steered me away from it.  I was just not wanting to have a fire that smoldered most of the time, but of course now that I think about I could have controlled that by how much wood and the size of the fires I build.  Oh well...it is what it is.  You can see in my earlier post where I was waffling between units and like gambling I chose wrong which I why I don't gamble.  Outside of the shorter burn times and working the unit hard... is there any other downsides to having a slightly undersized boiler? 

[CornFarmer416]

I was in the same boat as you when I was looking at these boilers. My thought was you can never go big enough,.. (With anything).. I'm glad I bought the 3444 even tho they told me the 2840 was big enough.. Like you said when the temps warm up outside I just barely fill it, but when it gets cold I load it up.. I feel like they should be more specific when they sell these units because there numbers are off when they say these 2840's can heat up to 4000 sq ft...

[agriffinjd]

Would adding a storage tank in the house help as a way to lengthen time between fills?

What are your r values for you walls and attic and how many square feet are you heating?

[EE Farm Boy]

Its a fairly tight house. I built it 12 years ago, R25 in the floors above the basement, R 15 in the walls and R30 in the attic with double pane windows.  I did all the BTU calculations but I think where I messed up.  I did not count on heating the basement but since the 1' pex runs through the floor joist it radiates.  Our basement is always warm now where as before we did not heat it.  I think that is where my calculations messed up.  Sometimes the simplest things you can over look.  If I would have only thought to control the BTU output of the 3444 by only building small fires then I would have went bigger.  Just upset with my self as I did so much research, calculations, drawings, and the perfect installation but I missed the common sense when choosing the boiler.....

My house is 3000 sq ft but we are in NC so the delta temp is not near as sever as you guys up north.  If you add in the basement that is being heated (not planned but just from radiating pipes) it is almost 5000 sq ft.  Problem here is when it gets mid 50's it will run you out of the house.  Many nights in Dec when it was mid 50's, we would have to open the doors to cool the house.  This is why I put everything on zones to limit the flow of hot water to areas unless it called for heat, but the radiating of the manifold in the basement along with the pex to the hot water heat exchanger ( this is the only thing not on a zone valve) will run you out. 

[RSI]

Why not insulate the pipes and manifolds?

[agriffinjd]

If the basement isn't finished, you could glue on 2" foam board to the walls for an extra r10.  That may help.  Rsi's suggestion would help too, probably even more.

Or, sell it and get a 3444 if they are still available...

[slimjim]

This is exactly why I really don't like to sell units based on square footage folks, a recent look at fuel consumed over a 3 year average can easily give a true estimate of BTU need, sorry to hear of your issue EE, my advice would be to contact the dealer to see what he would do to trade you up AND insulate the piping in the basement.

[coolidge]

Insulate the piping and you will see a huge difference, I had the same problem in my basement, but mine is also insulated.

[Joks79]

I have the same stove and live in the UP. I can get 12 hr burns. I burn mainly hard and soft Maple. My house is 2760 sq ft. We just completed an addition. The house started off as 960 sq ft with a crawlspace and forced air heat. The crawlspace also has ICF walls. It has R13 in the walls and about a foot of blown-in insulation in the attic. The addition has R21 in the walls, R38 in the ceiling, and ICF basement walls. the addition has all in-floor radiant heat. I have insulated underground lines from Central boiler.

The only time my burn times get mess up are when the bricks move and close off the air flow. I wish P&M would have given me the new style bricks. I just got this stove in October when I replaced my Ml-30. I will be building a spacer this summer like others have done on here.

[LittleJohn]

... R25 in the floors above the basement, R 15 in the walls and R30 in the attic with double pane windows...

Yeah I coudl deifnately tell you where fromt he the south with those kind of numbers.  My house is almost 3 years old, in Minnesota, R24 wall (R19 batts - 6", sheathed in 1" Hard Foam), and R50 in attic (by code the minimum).

I have worked on a few Habitat houses in the area that put in R100 in attic, with full floor to ceiling ICFs - You coudl heat these houses with a goof sized candle, I SWEAR

[EE Farm Boy]

Thanks for the comments, I think I will try insulating the pipes and see if that gets me there.  Last night is got down to 15 degrees, I filled the boiler at 10:30 and at 6:30 still had two logs left so I am not that far off from what I need.  One thing I did was, remove zone with the DHW.  Manually turned it off to limit the flow of hot water to the stove. 

For me Slim, the problem with looking at a 3 year avg, I froze to death keeping the house on 69 due to electric heat pump...  then once I got the boiler, it felt so good so I keep it 75 now.  And then comes the idea, its just wood, I will cut more so now the Great Danes have a 65 degree garage to sleep in.  That's why I did the calculations, which I included everything I wanted to do.  I think the this size boiler will work, may after insulating a few pipes and making the complete system more efficient.  Wednesday night will be the real test, it will get to 0 degrees here, and I used 10 degrees in my delta T calculations.... 

[slimjim]

0 degrees, damn, that's a heat wave for me, best of luck EE and stick with it!

[EE Farm Boy]

I was thinking, since I am close to where I need to be could I just add about 200 gallons of storage?  I have an extra taco 007, so if I was to buy a small heat exchanger and build be insulated storage box in the basement, heat the 200 gallons of storage during the day when the boiler goes idle quite often, then have this extra capacity at night to extend the heating time.  Seems like this may be more efficient as well cutting down on the start stops of the burn cycle during normal operation?  Thoughts? 

[Diezlpilot]

Hello ee just wondering about how much wood you have gone through this year? I'm in chattanooga tn area and have decided to go with the 3444. I have similar square footage and temps as you have. Thanks

[EE Farm Boy]

If I had to estimate, I think I am at the 9 or 10 chord mark.  I will have a better estimation next year.  Last year I cut 7 chords and and cured all summer in the dry.  I started the boiler around the first of Oct as we had a cold snap and I was anxious to get it going.  I went through that and had to start cutting dead fall that had been laying the woods for 12 months so its not green but not ideal as it is not cured as much I would like.  I am focusing on increasing the total efficiency of the system.  I insulated my manifolds in the basement as well as the Pex that runs up into the uninsulated areas of my attic.  This has helped a lot.  Basement temps are much lower now. This year, I will put up no less than 12 chords cut and stacked and will probably put up 15.  Having to cut wood to heat with for this year as well as trying to collect for the following year is tuff.  All I do is cut wood every Sat and Sunday for the past month and a half.  If I get ahead so that I only have to cut for the following year it would be better.  If I had to do all over again, I still would go this route, just with the 3444 instead of the smaller one.